Velociphile - No longer in the building
1397
So why can't VC (and others) just lower their prices overall to at least pre-bubble levels
Let's be honest, they're all in this kind of mess because of the insane pricing, lack of buyers and with production facilities geared up for volume that isn't there.
Over the period 2000-2015 Rolex Sub prices went up 2.5x with inflation 1.4x
That's a compound increase of 3x the rate of inflation for 15 years.
We don't want cheaper model lines, we want more sensibly priced proper pieces. An OS3 is currently $20900 list (exc tax) in the US. Ridiculous.
Somehow we are supposed to applaud this lame effort as 'value for money' and a 'great effort to bring in new buyers'.
Velociphile
The Most Impactful Novelty AND The Best Value Novelty of the 2018 SIHH: The Vacheron Constantin FIFTYSIX Date
Moderator Patrick_y explains why he selected the Vacheron Constantin FIFTYSIX as his choice for Most Impactful Novelty AND The Best Value Novelty of the 2018 SIHH. A launch of an entirely new watch line is something that is not unusual in the watch busine...
The old Lange 1815 caliber wasn't all that great...
Remember the old 1815s made before 2009? Those had one-sided finished movements. A total cheat. Lange wasn't always angelic neither. And I can't say that watch introduced a whole new demographic into the world of high horology. On the other hand, this Vac...
Care to clarify?
I have a Saxonia Thin 37mm and I’ve showed it to master watchmakers and they agreed that the finishing is second to none.
Early 1815 Langes had finishing shortcuts...
Teardowns of early 1815 Langes have shown they weren't finely finished in many places where it wasn't visible. A Lange executive has previously said that this was "a dark time for A. Lange & Soehne" and has vowed it won't happen again. Today's 1815 mo...
Im only aware of one instance of an 1815 that was taken apart.
There might be many and this very well might have been the case, but Lange was a very new brand trying to figure itself out and mistakes can and do happen along the way. No shame in that. What would have been shameful is if Lange went backwards and made a...
It's possible... I try not to look too closely anymore...
While I have to say that Lange is still among the best, they still make mistakes, some are still substantial mistakes. The closer you look, the more likely you'll find something wrong. It's definitely possible, even with Lange. Unless you know everything ...
I have inspected a few pieces at the Lange Boutique in Paris recently...
and was little impressed (having a clear memory of the earlier pieces), particularly of the Saxonia automatic. Both the quality of the anglage as well as of the engraving of the balance cock were clearly a notch below what I would expect.
This is very interesting for me
As a collector i am always looking to learn from others. Do you mind explaining what you found to be subpar in their engraving and bevelling? Quality of finishing is very important to me and i have spent countless hours comparing the finishes on my watche...
The post no longer exists...
It was originally on www.thepurists.com website, the original website to PuristSPro. Writer was "8Ohms" or something like that. Found it... ei8htohms.tinyparts.net Unfortunately, the link to the original posting is dead, probably because t...
I still think they lost an opportunity
I appreciate the effort, but the result is contradictory. The main, big flaw is the non in-house movement. It has been stated that it comes from Cartier, a good movement , likely very carefully finished, but it seems a makeshift choice. As you reported, t...
I think that's what they were going for... They made the effort.
"I appreciate the effort" is all that we owe Vacheron Constantin for this creation. Vacheron Constantin can't give a whole VC movement with high finishing and a Geneva Seal at this price point. Imagine the betrayal their former customers would feel if Vac...
We are a minority
What do new collectors, or simply purchasers, buy today? Brand name (logo), resale value, quality? We all know the answer. I absolutely agree with Velociphile,the making of cars is much more expensive, that's why they use modular chassis. I can buy Skoda ...
Nice written but I don’t agree
“ With a price tag of under 12,000 Swiss Francs, the Vacheron Constantin distribution, this watch really brings the world of haute horlogerie to a pricepoint that is accessible for a wide population.” Is it still haute horlogerie? By using a good bit defi...
Excellent question... Is it still haute horlogerie?
I think it's not exactly the watch for most PuristSPro readers. Keep in mind, PuristSPro readers are the most sophisticated readers about watches in any public online forum in the world. And I've read many of your posts in the past years Bruno, I know not...
I just wish
Richemont would just let the various manufacturers be. If you want to buy a VC it should be just that. Why not put a VC movement in a Cartier, that would be a fair trade off.
Richemont is already very hands off...
Compared to other conglomerates, there is relatively very little technology sharing among the brands within Richemont. Each brand does have most of its identity intact. This particular watch just happens to be one that does use a movement from the Richemo...
No arguing with that
Your point is well taken, I suppose a newbie who starts of here will likely move onto patrimony, overseas etc. I know JLC did that for me starting with the MUTM then Reverso and finally caliber 2121.
Wow, you got the bug very thoroughly thanks to JLC!
Admittedly, JLC was my first introduction into horology as well. I was mesmerized by the Reverso Duo and the clean art deco design. I never acquired a JLC, but I have to credit JLC as it certainly got me thinking about watches. This VC may be that "bug" f...
A really bland design
Don’t really understand the value of it; better off buying from another brand at this price tag. Apparently some well known Watch bloggers and website people participated in the design or gave their input .... no more comments
I tend to agree...
I didn't know that they invited watch bloggers to participate in the design. I can say with certainty that I definitely did not get the invitation. If I had, I would've made much more curvaceous and concave lugs. The design is definitely a very "middle of...
Nicely written article but..
Personally I love VC and possess a few of their creations. I also value their client treatment. But...this watch is a missed opportunity imo. The design is too average and the non in- house movement can do more damage than good imo, to the eyes of collect...
Thank you Alex!
Trying to be as neutral as I can. I feel that I mentioned where the FIFTYSIX is imperfect, specifically citing the "safe case design" and the "[movement] is a Richemont Group movement with a flat balance spring and standard balance wheel", but I also appl...
Hi Patrick
Appreciate the fact that you replied and the additional thoughts. All points are taken, but to say that the watch is about to disrupt the industry and that it will change the perspective of millenials on haute horlogerie is outside of my reasoning; hence ...
You might be right...
Had dinner with some friends and apparently I've got some Millennials who aren't so sure they'd buy this VC. The Millennials who are watch people and PuristSPro-level watch appreciators state that the date is obviously forced and when they learned the mov...
Cheap but expensive
I agree with the 'they shouldn't have done this' sentiments. Giving up on Geneva Seal is a cheap move, carefully disguised on their website in the way this piece is presented. At least it leaves a future opportunity for them to proudly announce that, "All...
I like the car analogy...
Yes, I really disliked the button blanks in the 996 Porsche 911s. Those were so unattractive. I don't think this piece was intended for collectors on PuristSPro. We'd consider buying one of the higher-end Vacheron Constantin pieces. But, overall, it's a g...
Movement Pics
1326 Front 1326 Back 2475 Front, Geneva Seal-ed movement 2475 Back, Geneva Seal-ed movement ...
Thanks Patrick for that review and your enthusiasm for this new VC
overall, I think VC is doing well to address a lower price point market, which the Overseas has grown out of unfortunately. This new creation is probably a start and I personally not too keen on some of its design elements, but I'm sure there will be foll...
Very balanced! Thank you CC!
The point I'm making with the article is that VC is providing a "gateway drug" for new collectors to get into horology. And I'm appreciative that VC is doing this! We're definitely one of the few websites that have mentioned the date window being too smal...
I am not completely convinced...
I certainly see the logic of moving into a lower, more attractive price range and from that point of view I think VC has done well. Where I am less convinced is the overall product. And not because I would say that it compares unfavourably to another bran...
I do like the Quai...
The Quai d'Ile models are definitely cool pieces. They're big, they're definitely unique, and they're radical. I still miss the one where you can customize to your own preferences. I'm a little sad that never really took off. And they come with VC's Genev...
Apparently the timing was off..
Having appeared around the financial crisis it never took off the way Vacheron intended...
I like them
The date in this articular model is so small that it can easily be overlooked so that it does not disturb the dial face, if you want it not to. I guess VC tried here, successfully, to make the balancing act between leaving the date away, as in historic mo...
There is a reason why VC introduced such a watch
While I do not know for certain, it is reasonable to assume that VC is in financial trouble. So we can all criticize the non-Geneva movement, date placement etc, but we should all hope that the watch sells well.
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that VC is in financial trouble... That's definitely a big assumption. But yes, I agree, the watch will likely sell well!
VC is steady, no financial trouble that I'm aware of. No major layoffs, large capital expendiure plans continuing. There are other brands in the Richemont and Swatch group that have significantly greater days of inventory than VC. No reason for the watch ...
Hey Patrick
.....really nice review. Really enjoyed how you meshed teh history into the evolution. I think its a nice watch and a valiant attempt at capturing the history. "Feels" like a VC. Good review.
Thank you Baron!
I'm steeping a special tea that was given to me from an incredible individual who drove four hours to take me to lunch and to tea. This will only be the second cup I've had of this particular tea. I let it steep a little longer than I'm probably supposed ...
Right around 85 degrees.
For green teas, I tend to use a lower temperature, as there's a real burning risk. Matcha tastes fine even lower, 80 degrees is actually fine. I don't like to drink it too hot, so I always try to use the lowest I can use to reduce my wait time! I also mak...
Thank you for your take on the new VC...
... let me quote you on the very point that puts me off when it comes to the watch: „ The Achilles’ heel in this case (no pun intended) is the date window is a little small, and to my eyes, it’s two millimeters too centrally placed courtesy of the smaller...
Perfectly understandable Henrik!
I like your no compromise approach! Maybe VC's designers were trying to take a "minimalist date approach" or something like that. But in my eyes, and apparently yours, we're not fond of the date. Personally, I like the Quai watch, I even like the modern d...
So why can't VC (and others) just lower their prices overall to at least pre-bubble levels
Let's be honest, they're all in this kind of mess because of the insane pricing, lack of buyers and with production facilities geared up for volume that isn't there. Over the period 2000-2015 Rolex Sub prices went up 2.5x with inflation 1.4x That's a comp...
Mostly true! Great points!
But you can't lower prices for the same quality product, that tells your former consumers that you're being disloyal to them. You have to increase your prices because every other brand increased their price during record high demand and normal supply. You...
Looks good on your wrist... BUT
I have to add my opinion that it did/does not make a big impact or even particularly good value along side other watches in the market (JLC or Montblanc if you want to stay in the same house). I don't think it even makes a wave.. maybe a ripple as it open...
You are absolutely right Andrew!
I agree with you. But I still think this watch will make a lasting impact, not for you, but for new-to horology people (the Harry Potter book would call them the "muggles"). The brand equity of Vacheron Constantin is so tremendous that this lower pricepoi...
Maybe goes with their strategy to sell via Hodinkee?
Most of the other brands have in-house movements too, the one I saw (maybe a SIHH proto), the finishing was medium and apart from the gold rotor was not better than most brands offering an ETA. Maybe VC are just sitting back on their name rather than prod...
Thank you, Patrick for an interesting review!
A very fresh approach how to describe this new line! I think this new line is a bit of a double edged sword. On one hand you make the brand more available to a broader public. Here we have the one time or first time buyers, newly into watches. A bigger gr...
You hit it exactly right Blomman! I wish Vacheron Constantin all the best with their new FIFTYSIX line too!
And here are some of those super exclusive watches for veteran collectors... I really liked this automatic tourbillon. I always disliked winding rotors on automatics. Hence why I try to buy micro-rotor automatics or manual winds. But this is a rotor that ...
Wow! The blue balloon! :)
Thank you for these shots, Patrick! The blue balloon is just insane! Best Blomman
Thanks for the well-written and thoughtful review Patrick!
I think with all the critical responses above from PuristS; we can see that there is a lot of passion and knowledge when it comes to Vacheron. A lot of us really want VC to do well and to offer great beautiful watches. I wish Mr. Ferla and his team at VC ...
It is highly likely that someone from Vacheron Constantin will be reading this!
Seems like you're a fan of the Overseas! Thanks for reading and sharing your opinions! I appreciate the criticism that others have provided, but I think VC will especially appreciate your suggestion!
VC is a luxury brand
To have the design of a collection driven by market forces feels forced to me, even though I'm not particularly concerned by the lack of in-house movement in the basic model.
Maybe a little forced...
But what about the impact? Do you think it will have a positive impact, bringing more people to horology and to VC? Maybe the whole strategy isn't to sell FIFTYSIX, but to sell Quai d'Ille steel watches for 4000 CHF more with a Geneva Seal and a true VC m...
Interesting thought... but I remain skeptical about its impact to be honest
Can't imagine this collection having an overwhelming appeal to longtime collectors. For the casual enthusiasts, even at the more accessible price range, it's still a lot of money for what's rightfully advertised as a luxury item. I don't doubt VC has done...
Not a fan
Sorry it this is an opportunity lost IMO. If your going to do it do it right.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Seems like the audience on PuristSPro wants something that's more pure VC, not one with a "borrowed" movement.
That is quite a price! I mean not very affordable for what it is.
The first thing which bugs me is the presence of the date. Centered or not, it kills the dial. Even more when centered like this. Then, the hands. Which look banal. Then, the movement... Well, for such a price, I would have expected a Geneva Seal at least...
We come from a different time Nicolas...
Remember just a little more than 10+ years ago, say 12 years ago, even Patek Philippe Nautilus was not hard to get, and was right around 13,000 Euros (or close)? I remember at that time, thinking it was expensive for a steel watch... Wasn't far away from ...
I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness in presenting this watch
...but I must disagree with the conclusions about value, finishing, and product/market fit. In the first case, it is most certainly not a haute horlogerie calibre. The Etachron regulation, smooth balance, unused jeweling, and unfinished main plate, disqua...
Thank you for your response Brandon!
Thank you for providing your Millennial context! I agree, with today's internet generation, and how Millennials love to research about what they're buying, they may discover that the very standard flat balance spring and basic balance wheel contributing t...
I echo the sentiments of most other PuristS here...
The main thing I'd like to highlight is, the movement being machined finished with less handwork like polished anglage. That, to me (as someone who values a watch movement), is clear signs of brand dilution just to fulfill a lower priced market segment. I...
I'm surprised all the egos fitted into the SIHH buidling
they're still living in their own world instead of adjusting to a new normal. Years of 'steady as she goes' denial has become bargaining in the form of 'look at the data...see....., signs of recovery,' neither of which means any of these companies are pre...
VC definitely took a risk by doing this...
They knew it too. We will find out if it sells well. I agree about the anglage. To me, the anglage is one of the most important things I look for in a movement. One of the reasons why I'm not always crazy about JLC watches too, their anglage isn't polishe...
chatter on anglage of pateks became common lately too
due to Greed and mass production of patek watches , chatter on anglage of pateks became common lately too . Patek should reduce their prices also since they are giving this inferior quality finish even on non entry level watches . Iam sure this inferior q...
Very True!
I was among the first to point out the "chatter" on the photos of a very nice 240 Q caliber Patek Philippe perpetual calendar. The sad thing is that people often put Patek Philippe on a pedestal and admire the brand like fan boys. In reality, every brand,...
The main “problem” with luxury brands (here high end watchmaking companies), and even more the ones which belong to listed groups (The Swatch Group, Richemont...), is that they can’t lowered their prices
It’s not in the mentality of high end / luxury brands (especially one such as Vacheron Constantin) to make special offers and reduce their margins or, to summarise, offer a better price-quality ratio to their customers. So, if Vacheron wants to offer new ...
Thank you Alkiro!
It's definitely not a watch aimed at the super collector nor the average PuristSPro reader. But I thought it was a bold move by Vacheron Constantin, I thought it was a major disruption in the market for a Top Tier maison to take such a risk. And I applaud...
DĂ©ja-vu, Vacheron Constantin (ups, you did it again...)!
Actually, the strategy here has a precendent at the house of Vacheron Constantin, the Medicus Chronograph (image credit: Govberg Jewellers): The movement here is what make the new Vacheron Constantin FIFTYSIX look so familiar: Again, an outsourced movemen...
Nice example. At least that Lemania runs like a champ!
and they chose the version without the polymer pieces.....
Wow! Good memory!
Thank you for sharing this Magnus! I completely forgot about it... Movement actually looks nice if you don't look at the regulator. Don't look for a column wheel neither since it's a cam system. Thank you Magnus for sharing your good memory with us!
Some good, but not good enough...The good, the bad...and the ugly
Some good elements: --good, modern size, without going overboard --distinctive case, that looks to the past without looking old --hands are fairly nice --stainless steel The bad: --I simply cannot get over the movement...don't stroke me and tell me I'm bu...
"if a date is on order, make it right; or omit it altogether"
The watch would look better without a date. I really like the folding clasp too! That's always a nice touch!
You’re right.
I should have included the folding stainless clasp under the good category. Nicely done by VC even if I prefer a regular tang buckle for comfort. Cheers, John
Great in-depth review.
Thank you for your wonderful review- i truly enjoyed it. However, when i saw these watches at SIHH i was severely disappointed. The problem here is not only the movement used by VC and abondoning the Geneva Seal to lower the price, but the fact that VC th...
Thank you for sharing your post with us!
Great post. Great question... I'm admittedly not a consistent fan of the Overseas neither. Watch this space. There will be some more pieces mentioned here in the coming weeks and months. Along with some more inspiration for future Historiques pieces.
The good point about our passion is that we can share totally opposite points of view
For me, the FiftySix collection and more precisely the entry level watch are not good news for Vacheron. To be honest, it is not a question of quality of these watches. I find them uninspired but they are after all well made. Having said that, the problem...
Thank you for your insightful response Fx!
It's definitely an unexpected strategy for Vacheron Constantin. Such a high end brand to debut such an accessible timepiece. I look forward to seeing how the piece is received by the public in a few months time! Thanks again for posting Fx! Always great t...
sweat and sour
First of all, I am a new watch collector and although I know the importance of VC on the matchmaking history and its greatness I have to confess I am not a conoceur of the Brand. That been said, i have to say I really love the look on the watch, the grey ...
Thank you! And welcome!
Generally the media is very positive about this watch. But, the media is predominantly written by paid professional writers, the majority of whom are not personally watch collectors or avid watch lovers. Here, on PuristSPro, we try to take a more balanced...
thanks for the reply
Love the article, as you said it is actually very balance, I am learning already, looking to ve more selective. cheers
Thank you Gerardo!
Yes, like the vast majority of our readers, you'd probably be considering something a little more upscale in the Vacheron Constantin collection! Definitely be selective! You've got to LOVE IT. You can't just like it. Think, twenty years from now, when you...
I would suggest
you check out the steel Quai d L'Ile in any of the three colours. A very versatile design covering dress to casual, available for a 'realistic' price from ADs with a proper VC movement and Geneva Seal. If that is too large a piece, go for a classic Patrim...
thanks
That´s exactly was I ment, I rather wait and save a couple bucks more and get the Quai d L´lle (love your recommendation) or the HISTORIQUES TRIPLE CALENDARIO 1942 (love that watch, hope to see a review on that reference soon) the difference is not that m...
Hmm... A review on the triple calender? These reviews are rare, but not impossible.
I don't know of a review on that watch coming soon. But I don't know that it's been ruled out neither!
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