Horological Meandering

Why are many so single-minded in their thinking? I find it hard to understand this completely sensible submission, as part of what comes to Patek or Rolex. To queue 10th century, pay far above list prices and to pray on their bare knees to get their produ... 

but In my opinion to have a great watch collection you need variety. The only problem is that the two brands in question make some great models and with the added bonus that if you wanted or needed to sell you would probably get your money back. Keep them... 

I cannot fathom that a person has to wait 5 years to buy a 5711; or pay a 50% premium with a grey marketeer. Ditto the Daytona-a great watch at 12K, but unavailable unless you are willing to pay over msrp. There are so many equally well-made and attractiv... 

I tend to agree with you. I cannot fathom it either....for the 5711. BUT, and its a BIG BUT, isn't that decision purely the domain of the person who decides whether or not the watch represents value to them at that price? I wish penthouse appartments in M... 

Of course it is up to the person to pay whatever he/she feels like paying to gain entry into an exclusive club-here ownership of certain models of watches. It doesn't have to be that way. We all could show some restraint and that would bring the manufactu... 

But I am unsure of their legality in the UK.

WISDOM ;-) If there anything sane about collecting watches, it is the insanity around collecting watches.... HAGWE ! Best, mahesh.,

I see this as a sport, a challenge to get a limited watch, IF I LIKE the watch. I certainly do not like all limited models, neither would pay premiums. This new GMT reminds me of the Star Wars marketing: no one has seen it but all are already crazy about ... 

My AD told me that if i wanted the GMT, he would get one relatively soon. I saw it at Basel and just didn't like it that much. Yes.....very much like the new Star Wars.....

"The thrill is in the chase"!

Trying to extend my thoughts, I start from the beginning. I've started learning (not so much, actually 😅😅😅😅) 15 years ago, when I was more ignorant. Rolex was and still is the luxury entry level brand for anyone is going to throw some money. Because it ke... 

I am perplexed, too, and I agree that "the more money, the more the tricky behavior". Don't worry, it's like fashion, the other brand you mention may slowly go down - one man shop is not forever. But, hey, what do we know? I have never been wealthy, and t... 

Do you not think that is a little bit of a generalisation and actually somewhat insulting to people who collect just Rolex/Patek and people who are happy to pay over list price?Surely it is their judgment that matters in what they buy? Why do any of us ha... 

Buying wisely (second hand, NOS, discount,etc) is different than buying expecting a price increase. As i've already said, isn't it more disrespectful for those who buy watches just for passion, without any valuation of future resale? I have never offended... 

.... it isn’t up to you to act as judge on others. You do not have the right to tell others they are wrong just because you happen not to agree with the rationale behind their decisions. Also, please refrain from swearing on the forum. Thank you.

Or shall i ask permission? I feel deeply offended by these direct attack, i'd expect more super partes attitude from a Mod, not a direct critics to myself. Clearly you are biased by your way of collecting which is, by far, the opposite of mine.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. However, when that opinion goes beyond forum etiquette then a Moderator is entitled to step in and moderate. Swearing on forum crosses the line. So too is generalising about “types” of collectors. It’s not the s... 

How is that any different than investing into stocks? Or buying Birkin bags? Are the people who do such investing any less of a customer or do they have less rights? I completely agree with Baron here, each person has his/her reasons for acquiring a watch... 

I think you guys feel so susceptible because where i see simply an object, an item, a watch, you see money, investment, future. I'll be honest, i don't care much because these are just TOYS. Like a Birkin, a Lambo, etc...

Wow, this place has lowered its standards by miles. Now, for those who have trouble understanding: I was pointing out that different people have different motivations. Nothing more, nothing less. Basically, you’re saying that, for example, if a worker of ... 

Check prices over last 5-10 years.

I did not read his post as a description of his personal motivation, nor did he suggest that what he described is a prevalent one. Best, Magnus

due to the insane "bubble" prices even common pieces like 5513s and 1675s are going for. I'm glad I at least have some vintage models from when they were more "reasonably" priced. And my friend, you know vintage Rolex is where I started my collecting. As ... 

Hard to generalize here, especially without offending some, but I'll toss out some ideas: Some consumers who nearly exclusively focus on Rolex, Patek, some AP, and some other very hot models (...admittedly, there's a lot of overlap in the following list):... 

It’s a very interesting topic! The herd mentality, peacocking, exclusivity, status symbol is so much of it, in my opinion. If they go get another less well-known brand, they lose these attributes immediately to other people that don’t know watches very we... 

....most on this forum are passionate collectors. Very true.

For example, if a person may need to sell his/her watches due to a financial crisis in their lives, they're likely to think more about the secondary market value of the watch. The more precarious their financial situation is, the more likely that person w... 

Lot's of peer pressure here. Actually, lot's of cults over at Patek forum. Nautilus crew versus the world time cosmopolitans. Phew! Jim

Most people Rolex is not "cheap" for most people. Having a "normal" job, most people need to save up to buy a Rolex. Combined with Rolex's marketing and armed with the knowledge that it's "easy" to get most of your money back on a Rolex purchase, it's a s... 

All fun fun has been taken out of vintage Rolex collecting because the prices have gotten so out of hand. I see ratty 5513s selling for close to $20k within minutes (or at most hours) after they are advertised for sale. Couple these high prices with risk ... 

As far as the history of Man goes, there have always been individuals who have wanted to be perceived differently, that feeling of grandeur perhaps. One way to achieve that is to acquire an object that is perceived to be of value (either rare or precious)... 

I think there is definitely a bit of herd mentality. The visibility and exposure of Rolex and Patek are very high and I think it reinforces their reputation and status. It also does not hurt that Rolex and Patek vintage watches have achieved the highest $... 

It's like kids back in grade school. Everyone wants to "fit in" and be popular. As we grow up, the popular materialistic stuff gets more and more expensive. In adult scenario, the stuff becomes Rolex and Patek. The "sheep" find anything else besides these... 

i thought time to focus on Patek rather ,PP I ve always considered as THE watchbrand worth to follow but i ve needed the final push mindwise to justify the prices they charge(their products and marketing I ve respected always).Anyhow a good friend of mine... 

I think your sentiments are spot on. You have evaluated what you want and made a decision. It is your decision and nobody else's.

Sure, other manufacturers have some fabulous pieces as well, but people are anxious about not being "in" and the lack of recognition, something we truly desire and you can't deny! For myself I think that Rolex and Patek have something more than good marke... 

Many different sporty watches out there but I cannot get past big thick watches. I’ll look harder for a well-proportioned watch and it usually comes back to Rolex & Patek. I have a monster watch in the JLC Extreme Lab and that one is enough for me.

This piece of steel is small and thin. Indeed. I'm still smiling when i read PP and Rolex (only) buyers trying to justify their choices because t hey don't want to lose their money . Are all the other people/collectors dumb when they buy out-of-the-box? ...  

Could you try to explain a little closer, please?

It's a dive watch (although nobody would use it for diving purpose), so the size matters. Isn't the deep sea simply huge? Even the 41 mm DJ is bulky, but I'm not criticizing their choices. Simply, I don't like it and I carry on. There are hundreds of nice... 

I would not buy watches with more than 42mm in diameter and 13mm in height – with those two factors only, the number of watches from brands with reasonable image (say like Oris) decreases hugely. There are plenty of nice watches, true; but they aren't man... 

1. I have owned many Pateks, but alas, I have none today and am no longer following those "number only" models, which is which. 2. Rolex - I own two modern, still in production one. Practical, not so shabby on the wrist, "showy" enough (kidding!). But NO ... 

Buying and selling is part (likely the main one) of our passion, but today most of purchasers (definitely neither collectors nor fans) are simply looking for quick and easy money. PP and Rolex has re-started 6 months price increases, so no surprise of tho... 

i won t blame my life .I made some dough on watchcollecting/trade in the past and i really really enjoying to learn the technical analysis(EWs &all related to be specific ) to be more successful during my investment trades ,i really don t feel any problem... 

And by what rule should someone else tell you what you should or should not be doing? If one buys watches to sell immediately, then i see that person as a watch dealer. 99% of people on this forum are not watch dealers. And, to be blunt, how other collect... 

"Yup, I buy what I like." That is a courtesy that should be extended to anyone who buys a watch for themself. This is especially true for a watch forum like this that is supposed to be embracing all tastes. To buy whatever they like.....is their business ... 

A lot of Rolex and Patek models remain smartly sized, where other brands just went off the rails chasing fashion. Combine great sales numbers, collectable vintage pieces and waiting lists and you have two brands that are perceived as winners. Most people ... 

Thats why i stay with the independents

I m not even consider indys that i m afraid of the potential financial loss if the master/owner pass away(and no parts or service option remains) , i m okay to buy a PP but i m a chicken to acquire a Bexei. Obviously exceptions exist a Dufour must be a sa... 

Most of the time ill get that with a indie brand . And i am not afraid about the service of the watch after the brand or watchmaker is Disappeared . Imo there are plenty of skilled watchmakers (young and old ) who are able to work on the watch in the futu... 

have Mutual respect 🙏🏻🤗 HAGW 🍻

Personally.... I refuse to even pay close to MSRP and always get a significant discount from my Patek AD. The reality of our world is that the vast majority of the wealth is being consolidated among a very small % of the population. It's not hard to imagi... 

You will notice many watch brands in the collection. Now all are not concerned about the clock itself, and their liquidity in resale. Many collections have become similar to each other, as a blueprint. Personally, I also went this way and began to buy mor... 

Disclaimer: I’m very practical and direct, straight talker. Having collecting since 1990, when I first bought my dress quartz watches and moving to mechanical, admiring JLC, Blancpain, Breguet, VC, PP and recent years ALS, I came to learn that I cannot ac... 

a bit “beefy”.Perfectly executed and love to have and enjoy the fine details under a loupe but have it on the wrist is an other story , i m not young but need to age at least an other 20yrs to feel that my personality and ALS is matching.

.....why should you need to justify what you do?

Both Rolex and Patek are great houses with phenomenal reputations, which helps in preserving the value of the pieces in the second hand market. For many, this value is a large part of what they are buing into. For others the reputation alone is the reason... 

They aren't students of horology. Watches are only accessories that provide them security in social standing. They'd be wearing a tiara if the media can convince them that it's the hottest thing.

But the policy is speculative. It may work for some and not for others. In any case, as long as there is people willing to pay more for getting it first, the bubble will grow. If people said “why to pay more? Keep your watches”, prices would go down. My 2... 

Hi I think all of us here are single minded in some way - otherwise we wouldn't be here. And yes I kind of get the question about aquanauts, nautiluses & submariners - & if I'm honest wouldn't mind either of the first two. They are iconic watches after al... 

...I wonder how many of those that pay over retail for their pieces would admit to doing so to others? It would be my guess that when someone is the buyer of whatever cool watch du jour at OVER retail, they are telling others (who know what the watch is a... 

Personally I don’t care anymore about Rolex or their new models. Everything has crazy waiting lists and I’m personally not paying over MSRP for a day a Daytona. I had the 116520 and that was enough for me to understand it’s a bare bones with no date and a... 

Always Lange over Patek for the different messages they sent. Never ever a rolex. I cant even start to understand how a brand producing more than 1 MILLION watch a year would ever appeal to me. Sorry guys. I'll stick with Lange and Glashutte Original for ... 

I think they are 2 different things, I collect watches, not Rolexes. Mo

Rolex were responsible for so many patents in the 20th century that pushed horology forward. To appreciate where horology is today, surely one can appreciate the drivers of what put it where it is today. To appreciate vintage Rolex is to appreciate key pa... 

What drives today’s craze about vintage Rolexes ? Love for horologerie? I doubt it.. If it is because of those patents that Rolex invented well why just Rolex move collectors this much? Why not vacheron , girrard prrregaux, Minerva, and dozens other? The ... 

On the other hand, one could make the same hypothetical argument about Apple shares. To many, the price of the share is now quite absurd and unrelated to reality. On the other hand, who am I to tell another buyer of the share that their thinking is "wrong... 

As we are debating on a watch forum( a purists dedicated one as that),I was just stating that the factor that moves people to go mental about a very simple watch cannot be the appreciation of haute/bas horologerie per se. The discrepancy between the intri... 

...i wasn't saying that you were denigrating....just saying that one shouldn't. Relative "value" applies itself across vurtually everything. Watches, art, shares, bonds, houses...everything. All I am saying is that what we, as individuals, consider to be ... 

the other vintage models not performs even close to them and be honest in that segment no other manufacturer can beat Rolex. Obviously there are vintage complications by Rolex sold for top dollars but those are just the few exceptions.

Is that Rolex did a lot for Horology. In the quartz era, they resisted in the mechanical watch camp. They also made ( in the same time with Blancpain ) the first modern diving watch ( 1953 / 54 ) and even before ( 1935 ), as Panerai bought their watches f... 

perhaps different,BUT,this does not justify Rolexes prices. My point is that ,what moves people to inflate rolexes prices is NOT horologerie love, but speculation,collectability ,etc etc ...nothing to do with love for watches in the Purist sense. Your poi... 

.....people valued a certain type of tulip bulb more than a house. Prices fly all over. Value is always subjective. Is a 6200 worth more than a house? To some, yes.

I just don’t think paying over MSRP for a model you know they can pile stock if they wanted is cool! Also haveing bought from an AD (new air king) I can tell you thst they have their noses held really high. They think because Rolex that they can create fa... 

What drives one person to buy a watch? That is a fascinating question and within that question is covered the specific issue that you raise. Namely, when a brand like Rolex or Patek produce a watch where the demand is significantly greater than the supply... 

For me any reason to acquire a "thing" is valid. It can be its technical merit, it can be investment, it can even be making a fast buck by reselling it, or whatever. But was Jocke's question not also focused on what the buyers of some watch models are pre... 

......what would drive someone to endure a range of negatives to gain a specific positive? Again, I could answer that for myself but not for someone else. I would be preparedto wait for a year or so for a new watch to be delivered. yes. Would i pay a big ...