stere
591
for me... it's dead
Mar 11, 2021,06:17 AM
Sorry guys. I will decide what I want to buy. I will pop into the store and buy what I like. If they don't like my way I will spend my money to other brands. I will choose the product, not the seller should select me to be his customer.
I'm out!
stere
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Lange Sales/Distribution Change – Pre-Sale Pieces and Application Pieces
By: CR : March 10th, 2021-19:25
Hi All, Lange is changing some of its sales and distribution practices. I heard rumblings that something was happening about a week ago, but the information I received at that time was a bit confusing and conflicting. To sort this all out, I asked Lange s...
I understand why they're doing this...
By: mdg : March 10th, 2021-19:35
...but I HATE the practice of 'you have to buy a bunch of stuff you don't really want in order to get the one thing that you do really want.' The only possible way that would work is if they discount the application piece to make up a bit for some of your...
confirmed, by boutique
By: matto1 : March 10th, 2021-20:05
no discount on pre-sale piece if you want application piece
Lange’s stated rationale for its pre sale model seems suspect.
By: vitalsigns : March 10th, 2021-19:40
I think it’s all about price protection of certain pieces and selling them without discount. That is fine, and certainly up to Lange. Maybe it will strengthen the brand, which is good for Lange. But my cynic’s antenna is buzzing. Thanks very much for the ...
Can you help me understand this more, John?
By: CR : March 10th, 2021-20:34
I've heard others say this, but I don't get how the change to a pre-sale model would prevent discounting, except in the case where a pre-sale piece has been sitting idle in and AD's inventory for a long time (because that won't happen any more going forwa...
My thoughts...
By: vitalsigns : March 10th, 2021-21:56
Generally speaking, actions that reduce supply in sales channels will also tend to increase price (which I also equate to reduced discounts). The pre-sale policy certainly will mean less in-stock supply at ADs, so end-customers will have less ability to s...
This makes sense, thanks John.
By: CR : March 10th, 2021-22:34
I can also see how, under the pre-sale model, a dealer might offer a discounted price but only if the client pays that entire (discounted) price up front, at the time of the order. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
For sure.
By: vitalsigns : March 10th, 2021-22:44
In fact, one countervailing point is that a pre-sale could still justify a discount since the dealer isn’t taking on inventory risk or carrying costs. Whether allocation rarity offsets this factor is anyone’s guess and piece-dependent, I’m sure. As a cons...
Thanks for sharing this. Out of total clarity, can I ask what you mean by "I asked Lange," so as to add context to your writeup (e.g., a boutique, a contact at the manufacture, an executive, etc.)?
By: FabR : March 10th, 2021-19:50
As a quick reaction, this concept of "pre-sale" is certainly not new; my girlfriend and I -- like probably everybody else -- have been doing essentially the same thing with Louis Vuitton (or Hermes, etc.) for years, when we go to a new store that doesn't ...
To clarify
By: TheWindingStem : March 10th, 2021-21:20
I was told by two separate ADs that the requirements is two sub 50k purchases and not Mr. Schmid. In my post I have updated what I was told by Wilhelm which is those pieces require an application through an AD and Lange will approve according to their own...
Thanks for this additional info. Can you clarify...
By: CR : March 10th, 2021-21:40
Exactly which current pieces did those ADs tell you will now require a prior purchase of at least two sub-$50K purchases? Were they the same "pre-sale pieces" that I was told in my post here? Exactly which current pieces did Wilhelm Schmid tell you will r...
Maybe I'm old school?
By: marcobermann : March 11th, 2021-02:18
But the idea of any company selling anything to me to take my money telling me or insisting I have to had or purchase x, y & or z before I can be considered worthy to buy XX can go and stick XX where the sun doesn't shine and I'll keep my funds to spend o...
Everyone is free to do as they please.
By: marcobermann : March 11th, 2021-11:53
But for me yes it has turned me off all brands that either officially or unofficially via their Boutiques or AD's demand that before they will be gracious enough to allow them to take my money and me to get an item I wish to purchase have to either spend ...
Re "mandatory deposit"...
By: CR : March 11th, 2021-09:19
I wondered about this too. I think it depends upon the relationship between the client and the AD. If the client is unknown to the AD -- brand new -- then it makes sense for the AD to require a deposit of some form (fully refundable, mostly refundable, no...
Thank you for sharing this info
By: jack johnson : March 11th, 2021-02:30
When buying an expensive piece it is a must for me to inspect the specific example personally pre-purchase. On that basis, I will never go through a pre-sale for a significant piece. Meaning, I am removing Zeitwerk WG from my wish list for this year (and ...
Sure thing! But can you say more? I'm confused about your position...
By: CR : March 11th, 2021-09:30
I feel exactly the same way you do. I have the same concerns, and I'm sure most others do too. That's why I specifically asked if Lange would ever require us to buy a watch sight-unseen in this "pre-sale" model. The answer was "no." I was told that you ca...
I don't like this practice.
By: lm6 : March 11th, 2021-03:01
I most definitly want to see the watch before purchase. And I do not like that the company producing and selling a product (a watch, car or something else) will decide wether they think I am good enough to be a customer of theirs. What happens in the next...
I appreciate your comments. Some thoughts...
By: CR : March 12th, 2021-10:00
I too want to see the watch in person before purchasing and am glad this is always still possible. And I too would hate if Lange (or any watch manufacturer) said, "To buy this watch, we need to know what other brands you own, when you bought them, what ot...
Thank you very much for this piece of information
By: George Gently : March 11th, 2021-04:26
Let's see how it works out in practice. Personal note: this kind of behaviour makes me buying my watches elsewhere. I don't want to participate in this "I Beseech thee, Oh Seller, to grant me the opportunity to lay my money in thee lap, in order to get a ...
Why do it?
By: Uncle Chico : March 11th, 2021-04:52
1. Upgrade brand perception . 2. Reduce availability of high end models on the grey market. 3. Steer customers to boutiques where they can see models in the metal. 4. Better visibility over demand. I'm sure there are others.
for me... it's dead
By: stere : March 11th, 2021-06:17
Sorry guys. I will decide what I want to buy. I will pop into the store and buy what I like. If they don't like my way I will spend my money to other brands. I will choose the product, not the seller should select me to be his customer. I'm out! stere
Ugh, this smells really bad. Very distasteful imho.
By: Fastwong : March 11th, 2021-08:20
Conceptually, I like the idea of pre-sale/made to order. I think there's nothing wrong with having to order and wait a few weeks/months for a watch. Having efficient allocation and production of watches should be a good thing for ADs who don't have to car...
Curious
By: yming : March 11th, 2021-10:47
Could it really be that they are not doing well since they seem to only want to produce the watch when there is a confirmed order. Retrenching watchmakers might be in the works. Or maybe they want to create a perception of scarcity eg I can’t see a datogr...
It's possible but...
By: CR : March 12th, 2021-09:37
I don't think this change is happening due to poor sales of models like the standard Zeitwerk (with the original ZW movement) or Datograph Up/Down. I say that because I haven't noticed those pieces being delivered and sitting on shelves. But others, in di...
What about purchasers of pre-owned models?
By: walidk : March 11th, 2021-16:05
Dear CR, As always, super informative! As with others, I don’t like this direction at all. What I loved about Lange was its approachability and the fact you can walk in, find something you like, and go home with it. Don’t get me wrong, the people on the g...
Data point (steel Datomatic) and general thoughts
By: CR : March 12th, 2021-06:36
Hi Walid, Wonderful hearing from you! I am confused about the strong negative reaction from so many people, because these changes don't seem very substantial to me IF they are implemented honestly and efficiently, as described. I don't understand why so m...
Thank you for contributing new information, and very sorry to hear this.
By: CR : March 12th, 2021-09:26
I very much hope Lange would correct this for a long-term client like you who has purchased 3 brand new Langes from ADs in the past. A Lange boutique, owned by Lange/Richemont (vs. independently owned), should sell you that Odysseus before selling it to a...
I don‘t believe that L&S will change anything ...
By: flopi3 : March 12th, 2021-10:19
... I have written to Glashütte to tell them about my disappointment. I did not even get an answer after weeks of writing. And I disagree with you regarding the issue of Used Watches. I believe that the brands are becoming more and more dependent on buyer...
Very much agree with everything you mentioned!
By: Fastwong : March 12th, 2021-11:29
The secondary market supports the primary market, they are intertwined. No matter where or how Lange owners purchased their watches, they still make a commitment to the brand and long term recognizing and supporting fans of the brand is the most important...
Makes a lot of sense
By: walidk : March 12th, 2021-14:58
Dear CR, As always, your responses are thoughtful and thought-provoking! I think the strong negative reaction here stems, at least for me, from what I see as a shift in the way the brand has been operating in recent years. Maybe its the current management...
Definitely agree
By: walidk : March 13th, 2021-06:33
But there is also the hybrid of enthusiasts that purchase brand new from boutique/AD but also on the secondary market and I think their purchases across the board should count. Re your 2 examples, absolutely agree on the hg Lange 1 (wish it was offered to...
Walid, thank you.
By: CR : March 13th, 2021-07:57
I enjoy this discussion I agree with you that purchases made on the secondary market should "count" for something in the case of hybrid purchasers (like me!) -- people who buy both new (from ADs) and preowned. Also, if a person owns a Lange with papers fr...
Agree 100%
By: walidk : March 17th, 2021-18:53
Dear CR, Apologies for the delayed response - I also enjoy this discussion. I think the Hybrid buyer is a key component of the overall strategy and transparency is key. If I walk in and ask for an allocation of a special piece, my preference is to be eith...
Can't say I am too happy with this
By: benlee338 : March 12th, 2021-17:13
It just makes acquiring new watches more difficult with artificial scarcity. However, Lange need to compete and hop on to the hype train and I think they are mimicking AP's strategy of increasing divert sales to boutique and restricting supply to create h...
No need to be sorry. These are great points.
By: CR : March 12th, 2021-20:39
Finding out that a sales associate is lying to you is really offputting. I bet that's happened to most of us. And because the Lange universe is relatively small, those lies are often easier to catch. This would never happen, but it'd be great if all major...
A agree with every of your points, benlee 338 ...
By: flopi3 : March 13th, 2021-00:30
... I notice that L&S get more and more featured on social Media. Is it a good development? Most likely yes, from a business perspective of L&S. But it will change the brand. So far, Lange has been more or less a connoisseur brand with limited Sho...
This is why I hope Lange doesn't increase production significantly
By: CR : March 13th, 2021-08:15
Even with a greater social media presence, Lange will remain a relatively obscure brand because the average non-watch person will never see or hear about them. The last thing I'd want is for more non-watch people to know what a Lange is. Let Patek and Rol...
This is basically admitting you need to buy another piece...
By: CastorKrieg : March 20th, 2021-04:36
To get SS Odysseus - disgusting practice that is officially sanctioned. Dear God, I always wanted a Lange but actually I got my first Patek 5712 putting my name down and patiently waiting - that was in 2016. Looks like I made a good decision when choosing...
So I was thinking about it a bit more
By: CastorKrieg : April 12th, 2021-07:24
And on the surface of it I kinda understand what they are doing. The 'pre-sales' will reduce the amount of watches on the secondary market (and we know discounts on Lange can be pretty nice), and I understand them wanting to sell the most in-demand pieces...