patrick_y
[PuristSPro Moderator]
33553
Yes you did mention that! Thank you!
Oh yes. Market positioning. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario; VC didn't want to charge $40K because they thought it was too much. One employee said, "we don't need to make that much money, and we need there to be room for significant price growth in the secondary market to generate buzz." And another employee said, "while the Chopard Alpine Eagle XPS Salmon dial is a similar watch to ours, just no date, we want to be perceived as better than Chopard, and since most consumers use price as a quality indicator, we should charge somewhere right around the middle of the Patek Cubitus time and date variant and the Chopard Alpine Eagle XPS Salmon." The price is determined by VC's approximation of what the masses would think and how much room they want the secondary market to have. Oh, and the journalists who want one of these watches for themselves will ask VC for one and promise to mention the Brad Pitt connection (joking, Wei Koh already owns one in gold).
Vacheron Constantin 222 in Steel 4200H/222A Announcement and First Impressions
Moderator Patrick_y shares his impressions on the new Vacheron Constantin 222 in steel. 4200H/222A model. It's a big day! Celebrating Vacheron Constantin's 270th anniversary year! We now have an early announcement starting the first round of celebrations ...
Thank you for reading!
I read the other ones and they all didn't have the technical details and the heritage details I was looking for. So I decided we had to have our own on WPS!
OOooh la la!
I'd dog-sit that watch too! Very cool! Thanks for sharing the all important bezel removal shot! Are the gaskets between bezel and case standard sized or special sized?
Here’s how the split-stem crown came out
You couldn’t access the back to release the stem, so this 2-part item is released by prying with tweezers Then the movement can be lifted out after the front is unscrewed. Note the dirty bracelet before it was cleaned. Mike ...
Mike you are a proficient multipotentialite
Is there anything you are not good at because I can’t think of it. Amazing!
It's a truly superb timepiece.
VC is doing particularly good stuff in recent years, let's see if Monsieur Jerome Lambert can 'resurrect' JLC to its former glory, and in doing so make the landscape so much more interesting and compelling....
Many thanks for your thoughts, Patrick.
I think it’s a great looking watch, but a bit small for my tastes. I would still like to see one in the metal though. All the best, Jon
I wonder how it looks next to the Tissot PRX :))
I know, apples to oranges....but just for the fun of it....still don't understand the low PR nowadays, like PP 324s and 240s. ...
A few things...
1. This movement is much thinner than the Tissot. 2. Accuracy is a big deal at the high end watch brands. So it's more likely to be more accurate across the power reserve in all five positions! The Tissot is probably not inaccurate across the power reserv...
You know I'm kidding, right?
Is it $32000/$725 > 40x good? Again, useless comparison but buyers of this 222 don't worry about this ) I will buy it if I can get one for its historical significance, but definitely out of the question since I don't own any VC.
Patrick, great job with this review!
I have a couple of questions: - hacking feature? - quick change for other bands, like the Overseas?
Thank you!
Hacking. As mentioned above, the movement does hack. But with no seconds hand, it's kind of a moot point. Ideally, I'd probably rather not have a hacking feature since there's no second hand. No quick change. The design doesn't have other bands. Thus, nat...
for good reason! as an owner of the 222 gold I can only say that the watch looks fantastic and feels even more fantastic on the wrist..
the steel would certainly be very comfortable due to the different weight!
I really like the gold version. The way the date disc and the dial are more color matched harmonizes the look.
The AP 16202 date disc matches the dial color. Whereas the 222 in steel doesn't. Hence, the 222 in gold has a more cohesive look. Sebks posted a comparison photo and the photo illustrates this more. I still like the 222 in steel very much despite the mism...
I’ve been critical, just my opinion, of the Overseas. But the 222 I’ve always liked.
I think from a pure design perspective the 222 is far more pleasing to the eye. While it will not be something that I purchase I am eager to see them in the metal. A forum friend owns the gold version and it was quite appealing on the wrist, and pretty we...
At last.
This is very, very nice. But at this price point, why doesn’t it have an easy adjustment system at the clasp? Is it that hard to give Brogioli a call and ask them to make one?
They almost always lack this...
Find me an equivalent that has it. Besides the Patek Philippe 5811/1G.
And we should simply accept this?
So in 2025, when one can get watches at USD 30k without it?
An easy adjustment clasp would be too easy
Nail-breaking and gnashing of teeth are required, along with a bracelet tool, screwdriver or nearby dealer . I once asked a M-B factory guy why the US cars had 6000 mile service intervals versus the Euro cars with 20,000 km service (12,000 miles). Answer:...
The interval in Japan is 30,000 km!
I think they don't want those cars to survive being exported to Australia.
Great writeup! You missed an important piece of information though - what type of steel is used here? 😊
I like this watch a lot more than Overseas 4520v. As you said it will be difficult to get at MSRP for a while.
I am a fan of the overall aesthetic
I do think I’d need to try it on the wrist. For me, I like a bracelet with some adjustment. Even if a few mm as I like my watches on the snug side and not sliding around (when no adjustment I need to size looser to accommodate for wrist swelling). Overall...
Thank you for reading and commenting!
The silkiness of the bracelet is not something easily described in words. So try it on if you can!
I like the look, but 50m seems a bit light for water resistance...
...as this is the type of watch I'd like to wear to Hawaii, etc. and just leave it on...
50 M now means you can actually wear it in the water!
The water resistance standards have changed. This is not well marketed.
Yes...I know what brands like Patek have done...
...and it makes zero sense. Give me a number that won't void my warranty. That's all I ask for. I'm assuming that if I wore a Patek 3940J in 80 feet of water (below their limit) and the case leaked, they would give me hell about it.
It's not a Patek thing. It's a whole Swiss Watch Industry thing is changing to a new standard that is easier for the consumer to understand.
Now, when a watch says it can go 30 meters of depth, it can go that depth ONLY DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD, for a certain amount of time. That's the new legal definition. So, theoretically, a scuba diver (scuba divers generally can go 18 meters deep or 30 ...
Well. What do you think is reasonable?
I think it should be priced closer to $25,000 like the Chopard Alpine Eagle XPS (the one with the salmon pink dial). Both are at the same level - Geneva Seal level. Vacheron Constantin is a higher brand so maybe a small premium for the Vacheron Constantin...
All good with the 222 except for
The RRP seems a bit steep. I recognise the price is in line with the competition but it’s still inflated IMO. The lack of a micro adjustment (for now?) is a major design flaw. Given the ample time for R&D and taking reference of other integrated bracelets...
I think the pricing is okay. Remember to have empathy for VC!
Not that the pricing matters... Normal people won't be able to get one. And those who do get one would've paid more if they had to. But comparing the watch to the Chopard Alpine Eagle XPS - a watch in the similar Geneva Seal level and the case is also fai...
I understand your perspectives and respect it
Which is why my earlier point of “I recognise the price is in line with the competition…” was mainly to state that VC took reference and set a price point based on how they position 222 vis a vis others
Yes you did mention that! Thank you!
Oh yes. Market positioning. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario; VC didn't want to charge $40K because they thought it was too much. One employee said, "we don't need to make that much money, and we need there to be room for significant price growth i...
Very nice write up, Patrick.
The execution looks impeccable. Especially for the bracelet which is half the watch in this model.. The front load of the original is much more interesting but I understand the challenges of being loyal to that concept. Like the pp 3700 vs 5711. Real worl...
Me too. Grey dial or silver dial for me please. And maybe a grey date disc?
I agree, more practical does help.
“Reasonable”
Might be the price AP, Patek, VC charge nowadays for that kind of watch But 35.000 euro is imo FAR from reasonable for a simple steel sportswatch That aside it is a nice watch … only 39 would be more my size
Yes, I too spat out my whisky reading this.
Basically EUR 35k in 2025 gets you a watch with inferior specs than it did in 1977. I really like this 222, but major watch brands, VC included, are completely taking the p*ss on pricing. For what it proposes, this should be USD 20-25k, tops. I love the w...
20-25K is too low when taking the competitive landscape into account...
Not that the pricing matters... Normal people won't be able to get one. And those who do get one would've paid more if they had to. But comparing the watch to the Chopard Alpine Eagle XPS - a watch in the similar Geneva Seal level and the case is also fai...
You're not looking at it with Empathy from VC's perspective.
You're only looking at your own perspective. Remember... VC has to look at it from their perspective. Not that the pricing matters... Normal people won't be able to get one. And those who do get one would've paid more if they had to. But comparing the wat...
Given their behavior, I have got zero empathy for brands.
Especially those of the Richemont group.
That's like having an opinion and then saying you don't care what other people's opinions are...
I wouldn't say you're wrong, as the brands have totally been awful, but I would say you're being a tiny, little-bit, just a tiny amount stubborn. Keep in mind, you shouldn't blame ONLY the brands! It's also the massive hordes of consumers whom during the ...
Thank you for a great review, Patrick. IMO its VC version of The Emperor's New Clothes.
It's always refreshing to see a review from one of our own, and not a copy-paste of the company communication or blind applause by those who got paid a lot like Revolution et al. The Emperor's New Clothes Apology but, I don't share the excitement and buzz...
Lots of new Emperors in this world...
And a lot of tailors who know how to appeal to a nouveau Emperor's vanity. This watch is not perfect. But it is fairly well done. I think you can tell I was really sad about the case construction is no longer a 2 piece. And I agree... The short power rese...
Alwas appreciate your thoughts.
Back to VC, I feel, this phenomenon is not only by them, "short cuts" on delivery, that is emphasized by their ambitious pricing. Thats my feel . Your Chopard example is great, I do love the AE XPS, hopefully will get mine by H1/25 (about 1 year on waitin...
Wow! A true diver!
Thanks for sharing this about yourself! You definitely see watches from a tool perspective! That's awesome! So glad to have you here on WatchProSite!
Thanks for your posts that I always study with great interest
Regarding the price of this watch I have 2 questions that I don't think has been discussed here. If you look at the price of the steel 222 and compare it to the price of a gold 222 what are your toughts? Looking at the pre-owned gold (37 mm, price) will t...
I always say here that the delta between gold and steel is too much.
It's not about costs... It's not about materials. It's not about craftsmanship. It's about a standard in the industry where gold watches simply cost much more than their steel ones. If the delta was only $10,000 or so or only 30% or so, then to the averag...
Dial size ?
Thanks Patrick ☀️ Any idea what the dial size is? I’m guessing 28 mm … 🤔 🤝
Cool.
Would you have a contact at VC to confirm dial size? Thanks in advance Patrick. 🤝
Nope, I don't think I've got anyone I'm comfortable to ask this question. Likely an imprecise question too. Good luck!
Imprecise question; I can see there are two possible interpretations of dial size; the diameter of the dial alone when the dial is removed from the movement, or the visible portion of the dial that's visible once the dial is cased. I presume you mean the ...
Thanks for the question clarification
Yes, I meant the visible portion of the dial in the case. I’m curious to know as some have expressed that the dial seems a bit small. I’m wondering if this is because of the contrast of the blue dial to the steel case (which is less obvious on the full go...
Visible Dial size really can affect how a watch wears IMHO
I’m asking around to see if anyone can assist with the dimensions. 🤝
Case not too different from original
Although the movement is accessed from the back with the new version, the original also had a removable case back. It could be pressed out from the front once the movement was de-cased. I never opened mine up but from looking at this photo it appears the ...
Interesting! Thank you for sharing!!!
I didn't know that the back could be pressed out. But I presumed it could since it looked like another piece in the photos.
Merci!
I hope we can do a real review of it... Not that we need more marketing for a watch that will be very hard to obtain.
I hope so too. I tried the 222 on friday.
Nice watch and compared it with the yellow gold sibling. The blue dial is really nice but the white date disc doesn’t seem to blend with the blue. In my opinion, the yellow gold looks more understated. I also suspect the steel will be hyped up a bit given...
That's a surprise. There aren't lots of Vacheron Constantin timepieces worn in Singapore?
I see a lot of Vacheron Constantin in the wild wherever I go. I have a few friends whom are not watch people whose primary watch is a VC too.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I do like the harmony of the dial on the yellow gold. And I still like the steel version even with the mis-matched date disc. But I wonder if it were a color matched date disc if it'd work better. I think it's definitely a potential! In Sebks' photo, the ...
Yes! Good observation!
Everything with a darker color will look smaller. Take a black Rimowa suitcase and a silver Rimowa suitcase of the same size, and the Black one will look smaller. Also, most things with a sharp contrast will look smaller. Take a suitcase that's all gold, ...
Definitely too late. Already a lot of hype on here and elsewhere!
The stores are saying that there are over a dozen people a day asking for it.