Rolex 5513 Gilt Era 1962 - 1966 the full report. Repost.

Jan 11, 2020,08:47 AM
 


The Rolex 5513 Glossy  Gilt era.




Left to right two matching Swiss - t<25 from 1964, Swiss only upper underline from 1963 and bottom Swiss - t<25 Bart Simpson coronet. 

 


There is something magical about the glossy gilt dials present in the many vintage Rolex from the early 60’s. This review will focus on the gilt dials attributed to the Rolex 5513. The Gilt Rolex 5513 production date range is from 1962 to 1966, with possibly some spill over into 1967, but I have not seen any original owner gilt models with 67 case backs. Since Rolex will neither confirm nor deny case number production dates, the dates referenced here are based on the dates found inside the case backs matched to the serial numbers.  I believe the start serial to be around 76x,xxx with a “I 62” case back and the cut cutoff for gilt dials in 5513s is approximately <1.6 million with “IV 66” date code in the case back. 




Left Swiss t<25 1964 , Bart Simpson center, Swiss only underline 1963.



As a background note, the gilt dial models for Rolex 5512 and the 1675 GMT’s follow similar dial variants patterns over the time period starting in the late 1950’s ending in 1966.  The evolution from the Chapter Ring to the Non-Chapter Ring for these models also had similar production patterns.   So what you read here probably applies to the Submariner 5512 and 1675 GMT as well as the 5513.

 

By late 1967 all three had transitioned to the matte dials, and was the end of the gilt period.  There have been a couple of reliable sightings of GMT watches with gilt dials from original owners into the early 2M case numbers and IV 68 case backs but they fall outside the sweet spot in the collector community.

 

My theory is that the GMTs were produced in larger number sand had some gilt dials that needed to be used up. That could account for later gilt GMT availability. The submariners stopped pretty much when they ran out of dials. Please note I have also not chosen to speculate as to the implications of radium and tritium used in the early dial nor the government regulations of the time period, that discussion requires a full report onto itself.  




Source hqmilton




Source hqmilton 




Source hqmilton 




I have seen in person a 5513 with a Chapter Ring configuration with 2 lines of silver print for “submariner” and depth rating. So it is not an urban legend, they do exist.  Giving the choice to buy one even though it is rare I would stick to the 5512.  I would pick the 5513 up last once I had all the other gilts.  Just my opinion.


I found this example as a more complete set all matching as the other examples I have seen are from 1962 and have a 5513 case with a 5512 case back both had chapter ring but no exclamation. The question always remains as to the chapter ring really belonging to the 5512. We learn new things every day.


 

The first year of production for the 5513 was 1962/3 and this is the first and only year that has the pointy crown guards. The 1962 start date is a real crossover between the 5512 and 5513 where you will have a chapter ring gilt dial with a 5513 case and a 5512 case back. That is why I set the start at 1962 for first seen, but really 1963 and “official” start of 5513 production.  This first year (’63) is also unique for the 5513 because it also is the only year that has the transitional “swiss” only at the bottom in a non-chapter ring dial.  This is similar to the 5512 and 1675 that had a similar configuration. This is the first of three “main” dial configuration and has 3 dial “sub-configurations” – a. with a silver “underline” line above the center post, b. “underline” under the center post and c. “no underline” on the dial.  There is one more very scarce dial which is the 3 6 9” aka “Explorer Dial” in gilt that came in after 1963.




Upper underline 






Lower underline / Swiss only 







Swiss only white

*The switch to the chronometer cal. 1560 movement in the 5512 ca. late 1962 that precipitates the creation of the non-chronometer 5513, which actually was produced with the old cal. 1530 until around 1964-5.  The 5513 gets the newly created, specifically non-chronometer 1520 ca. 1964 and the 5512 gets the updated SCOC 1570 a year later, '65.


Let me point out that the differences between the 5513 and the 5512 were as follows:

 

5512 vs. 5513

The mid-case was marked 5512 and 5513 respectively.

The movement bridge on the 5512 was marked 1530 and on the 5513 it was marked 1520

The inside of the case backs on 5512 models that were produced often had 5513 case backs

The 5512 dials that were produced simultaneously as the 5513 (1963 and later) had 4 lines of text under the center post with 2 additional lines reading “Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified”

The 5513 dials only had the 2 lines of text

The 5513 did not come with a chronometer certificate

The 5512 came with a chronometer certificate




Price list






We can observe that the 5513 was selling for $175 and the 5512 was at $225 in a price list from 1966 and 1968.  Interestingly, the GMT was selling for even more at $245, probably due to the date complication and 24 hour hand.  People did not see enough benefit of the 5512 over the 5513 and more 5513 models were produced and sold, and that is why the 5512 model is scarcer.  The matte dialed 5513 probably started in the 1,5xx. Xxx + range but as always there can be overlaps in both direction but most matte dial meters first started to appear in late 1966 to early 1967.

 



Rolex 5513 Swiss only underline gilt. - notice the color difference. 









Rolex 5513 from 1963 by the ocean where it belongs. 





Rolex 5513 serial 89x,xxx - Swiss only white in lower position from 1963.




Rolex 5513 Gilt “Swiss” only 1963 Pointed Crow Guards (PCG)

We start first with the Swiss only which we consider to be from 1963 even though I have highlighted the fact there is a watch 760,xxx 5513 case and 5512 caseback with chapter ringNotwithstanding, it is more common that the 1963 Rolex 5513 gilt dial had a serial range of about +/- the high 9xx,xxx to the start of the 1,02x,xxx  usually the case back would confirm the date.  But as we know case backs can be off by a year quite often so combining the know serials with the case back stamp helps to establish a recognized date.  I know that some accept that this can go as high as 1.2 million serial and there may well be examples but I have not observed any.  However, from the specimens I have observed the high end of 109x,xxx you are already into the 1964 model range so 1.1 is pretty high already. My observations of two 5513 Swiss only gilt are from 1,00x,xxx and 1,0x,xxx.  These two when set side by side have different gold gilt color with the younger 1,000,xxx being more orange gold. This kind of copper gold was mostly found on the early Rolex 6538 big crowns.   So even though they are very close in time period we can see they age differently and may have a different process applied to the gilt.  Both had the Swiss in the same position and are from 1963 but still they are different. The Swiss only from 1963 enjoys at least three variations which are: no underline,  the upper underline and the under underline meaning a small line either under the Oyster Perpetual or the Submariner mark on the lower side and always in 1963. The Swiss can sometimes appear is a slightly different position and sometime look more white than gold.  One other variation is the Serpico Y Laino inscription on the dial.   As we have all observed 1963 was an interesting year with strange dial marking across the whole range of gilt dial watches from Rolex including the GMT’s and the 5512’s. 




Top level two 5513 Swiss - t <25 on the bottom Bart Simpson for comparison.  




Rolex 5513 gilt 1964.  


 

Rolex 5513 Gilt Swiss T<25   from 1964 / 1965

I have observed personally three from 1964 as confirmed by their case back having serial 1,09x,xxx, 1,17x,xxx and 1,18x,xxx so this to me indicates that the 1964 range starts about 1.1mil.  This date and serial range for me establishes the beginning of the 1964 gilt Rolex 5513 being the swiss - T<25 dial.  When the swiss - T<25 is placed next to the swiss only dial they seem identical except for the swiss marking.  The two watches pictured were identical twins in every way.  It was amazing to see to dial that both remained in 9+/10 condition.  Even the inserts seem to have aged in similar fashion.  Speculations have been posted as to the possibility of very early swiss - T<25 being available in the PCG i.e. non chapter ring in a PCG possibly in 1964.  However I have neither seen pictures nor heard directly from anyone as to veracity.  I do wonder, due to a slightly different case configuration between the PCG and the round crown guard, if the swiss - T<25 would fit visually and not seem odd. 

 

 








Bart Simpson on the left notice the coronet shape. 




Rolex 5513 Gilt “Bart Simpson” Swiss T<25 from 1965 to end of IV 1966

The gilt 5513 ended its run with what is known as the “Bart Simpson” which is recognized by its fat form coronet versus the longer more elegant fingers on the earlier coronet. You will find this dial towards the end of the gilt era 5513 ending fourth Quarter 1966 and generally not higher than 1.4 Million Serial. There are always outliers as with all Rolex watches but this is within the comfort zone.  So if a 1.5 mil serial shows up with a Gilt Bart dial it is on the border so probably OK but it will most likely have an IV 66 case back.  When you start to see the 1.5 + mil serial and 67 case backs you should be into the matt dials.  I have not included any such example as I am looking at just the gilts.







The Bart Below is a high Serial but still could be passable.



Rolex 5513 Bart Simpson 1.7 serial - may be a little on the high side.   This is Rolex so probably OK.  I have to admit that some of the so called tropical dials are simply damaged to me and not desirable.

 


Please remember all the remarks about serial numbers are based on what I have observed and those that fit the dial model configuration and as such are not set in stone but as a collector the closer you are to the right combination the more likely the watch was born that way.  You can have a little more confidence when there is no need to stretch the story about the serial numbers and the production range.  Above are a couple of example that is worth exploring that seem out of range to me. Either the dial itself is different or the serial range is off like a 2mil serial number alleged to be from 1967 while everything is possible not always plausible.   Again some people have original owner watch with a serial that claim to have been born that way.  For me as a collector I do not what to have to explain a special story to justify the configuration but I would rather pass and wait for a correct combination.  But once again opportunities present themselves and you must use your best judgment based on your experience.  The most disappointing aspect comes when speculation about what is presented as fact is simply information gleamed from the internet rather the firsthand experience.  Every chance you get to observe several specimens of the same or similar watch you should jump at the occasion.  This will give you the ability to add personal experience in addition to expert opinion we gleam from our traverses of the information jungle we call the internet.



For fun I did a little exercise to establish some idea of the number of gilt dial 5513 vs Matt dial. This is in no way conclusive just interesting. You could also simply take the total years of gilt dials as a percentage but a lot less was produced so it skews the results.  This is a completely fictitious  based on a very broad assumption and no knowledge of actual production numbers just a fun exercise. 



I hope you enjoy this report. All comments and corrections welcome. 


Bill










* feedback edits (tomvox1)


This message has been edited by DrStrong on 2012-11-25 09:54:43

This message has been edited by amanico on 2012-12-01 00:00:00


More posts: 153015601675551255135513 Gilt62bart simpsonDaytonaExplorerGiltGMT MasterOyster PerpetualOyster Perpetual DateSubmariner

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Fantastic report, Bill. I enjoy it a lot.

 
 By: TdotBean : November 24th, 2012-18:42
It's funny I keep seeing the CR 5513 floating around the market lately. The price of the less pristine dial sell higher than those early mint 5512! Rarity is one thing but I worry about the authenticity of these CR 5513. Nevertheless, I do think the 5513 ... 

We are just looking a small +/- 4 year period of the rolex 5513 production

 
 By: Bill : November 24th, 2012-18:58
Imagine the variety across all 23 years of production for the 5513. I am stuck in gilt mode. I love all the 5512, 5513 and 1675 gilt models. Best Bill PS got your mail responded.

I like your approach a lot.

 
 By: amanico : November 24th, 2012-22:47
To cross the informations you can get here and there with your personal observations is the way, the ONLY way to go. I am trying to do the same job with the GMTs, and I find it easier to do with the 6542 than with all the variationsof the 1675. As the 654... 

You are correct in every sense

 
 By: Bill : November 24th, 2012-23:56
I wish we could say categorically that x = y but we are talking vintage Rolex. All we can categorically accept is what we have observed. But even then then we remain in doubt. For me I am seeking standard not absolutes. I hate the people that that to shut... 

Thank you Bill!!!

 
 By: gensiulia : November 25th, 2012-00:09
this is a comprehensive guide to my psychological self destruction :) what a fantastic band! thanks & Ciao!

nice job Bill!

 
 By: MattS : November 25th, 2012-00:21
well done! these gilt subs are beautiful and spectacular in real! Matt

Very well done post & an enjoyable read, Bill--kudos! One point...

 
 By: tomvox1 : November 25th, 2012-07:53
...that I would clarify is that it is really the switch to the chronometer cal. 1560 movement in the 5512 ca. late 1962 that precipitates the creation of the non-chronometer 5513, which actually was produced with the old cal. 1530 until around 1964-5. The... 

I will update the report with your comments on the movement thx

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-08:00
I agree completely with on the feet first I put it in because it was a bright line and I hope it will save a few future collectors the surprise. It was offered for sale by an auction house but it did not sell. Good thing. Thanks for your feedback. Bill

Wow. Thanks Bill....

 
 By: Darren : November 25th, 2012-11:26
This is a magnificent report. The gilt 5513 is probably my favorite (realistically obtainable) vintage Rolex, and I know a lot more about it now than I did when I awoke this morning. Many thanks for taking the time to put this together. darren

Realistically obtainable - keywords

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-11:38
You are right they are still a little under the radar but carry a lot of the attributes of the 5512 gilts where affordability for prime examples no longer exists. They are equally as hard to find with a short production life of the gilt dials as is the ca... 

Bill, this is a superb report

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : November 25th, 2012-08:29
It makes me realise that my collection is like swiss cheese.... FULL of holes Just a glorious set of watches

Thanks for the kind words....

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-09:04
Thanks for the kind words. Your collection is very complete without a doubt. Looking forward to sharing these examples with you. Best Bill

I hope there are not...

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-09:06
I hope there are not too many holes in the report but I tried my best through observation. Thanks Bill

Great report Bill! Cheers, [nt]

 
 By: SteelerFan1965 : November 25th, 2012-08:53

I am glad you enjoyed...

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-09:07
I am glad you enjoyed it. As I get feedback I will update it. Thanks Bill

Just returning the favor. You...

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-09:48
Just returning the favor. You make many Sunday's for all of us here in the forum. Thanks Bill

Great report Bill

 
 By: DrStrong : November 25th, 2012-09:54
the feet first dial is a redial ;-)

Absolute the feet first is a ...

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-10:03
Redial not original. I included it to dispel it. They never existed but it was for sale at a large auction house. It did not sell. Best Bill

Detailed Analysis

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : November 25th, 2012-10:07
Dear Bill, I much enjoyed this detailed report! Rolex is so confusing so this information certainly helps. Just have a few questions: 1) Is that 5512 did come with Chronometer certificates because the early ones did have have that written on their dials? ... 

Here are some answers to...

 
 By: Bill : November 25th, 2012-10:44
Here are some answers to your questions Just have a few questions: 1) Is that 5512 did come with Chronometer certificates because the early ones did have have that written on their dials? A - Yes that was a distinguishing feature of the 5512 which is COSC... 

Thank you

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : November 25th, 2012-11:46
Great thanks so much! Just one more clarification: Early 5512 do not have COSC on the dial, did they still come with a certificate? With many thanks Edmond

best part dear Bill

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : November 26th, 2012-01:03
is price list ;) Seriously thank you very much for this future reference post Sincerely Damjan

Not a bad evolution

 
 By: Bill : November 26th, 2012-11:10
From a mere $175 the price is up 100 times over nearly 50 years. I used some financial calculators and got some interesting number. If the price of an item was 100 in 1963 it\'s present price equivalent would be approximately 1600. 10,000 of today\'s mone... 

So in fact

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : November 27th, 2012-00:56
we are paying 17 times more than our grandfathers for same thing ;) Cordially Damjan

Extraordinary report Bill!! You got an amazing amount...

 
 By: Subexplorer : November 26th, 2012-12:50
... of information and facts, and well illustrated with great photographs. Also beautiful specimens you show! I thank you so much for sharing this most important and interesting info with us! Best cordial regards, Abel.

Thank you I am glad you enjoyed the report

 
 By: Bill : November 26th, 2012-13:25
I can think of nothing better than to share with the community. Best regards Bill

Very enjoyable reading, Bill!

 
 By: dxboon : November 27th, 2012-07:31
I really appreciate you delving into this subject, as the 5513 is a favorite of mine. Your report is a great resource for lovers of Rolexes from this era. Thank you! Cheers, Daos

Glad you enjoyed it...

 
 By: Bill : November 27th, 2012-08:02
I did not know you had a hidden affection for Rolex. Bravo. Your choice is perfect with any 5513 or Rolex sports model. Best Bill

Rolex 5513 Gilt Era 1962 - 1966

 
 By: onlywatch : November 27th, 2012-09:39
"fun exercise" fantastic ;)

I was a fun exercise

 
 By: Bill : November 27th, 2012-10:13
I am glad you enjoyed it. Bill

A nice reference article for the 5513 gilt fan.

 
 By: Bill : November 29th, 2012-16:00
It was fun researching but as we know there are always surprises with Rolex. Thanks Bill Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE

I am glad you enjoyed the report

 
 By: Bill : January 26th, 2013-23:51
So much to to learn and enjoy from the Rolex Gilt era. Best Bill

Great Post

 
 By: kurtnickel : May 6th, 2013-15:53
Bill, I found this post to be very informative. Quick question thought, were there any non gilt dials produced in 1965/66 with a serial number in the 1.5m range? I own a 5513 with a 1.5m serial number and from looking at the dial, it does not appear to be... 

Your dial seems to be correct

 
 By: Bill : May 6th, 2013-15:57
The matt dialed 5513 probably started in the 1,5xx. Xxx + range but as always there can be overlaps in both direction but most matte dial meters first started to appear in late 1966 to early 1967. Please feel free to upload a picture. But to me your confi... 

So much to enjoy with the Rolex Gilt

 
 By: Bill : May 25th, 2013-17:16
Hi Logan I am glad you enjoyed the report on your journey through the world of gilts. Best Bill

Its a free knowledge from you!, free from the "Rolex school fee"..

 
 By: logan : May 25th, 2013-17:35
Which is very expensive and a big ouch once you caught the wrong one! So im very grateful and thankful for your time posting a great report. Its very useful and your collection make me drooling LOL

Dear Sir, Very interesting! Did I miss the answer?

 
 By: 19615512 : March 5th, 2016-05:42
"By: Le Monde Edmond : November 25th, 2012-11:46 Great thanks so much! Just one more clarification: Early 5512 do not have COSC on the dial, did they still come with a certificate? With many thanks Edmond" I hope Mr. Edmond does not object to me quoting h... 

Yes the 5512 2 line chapter ring.

 
 By: Bill : March 5th, 2016-09:44
The 2 line 5512 chapter has no cosc as it only has two lines of text the 4 line 5512 has cosc hence 4 line chapter ring gilt, non chapter ring and matt 4 line 5522. Bill

I think there may be some confusion- Rolex 5512 is based on COSC movement. BUT!!!

 
 By: Bill : March 5th, 2016-18:33
We know this is Rolex and the are many experts who can justify one way or another. It seems that there could have been different movements in the first (1959-1961) 5512 2 line which were capable cosc but what is confusing the issue here seems to be that t...  

Sorry...a 5512 2 line might be a chronometer...

 
 By: 19615512 : March 6th, 2016-05:47
Dear sir, So the first (1959-1961) 5512 2 line could have had different movements and may or may not be certified by the COSC. Very interesting, and further intriguing. Which movement is in the 5512 2 line you refer to in the example image? Regards

Mike - Moderator from Rolexforums summed it up very well.

 
 By: Bill : March 6th, 2016-18:33
These are his words verbatim dates 0ct 16 2011 Early 5513s & 5512s can both be found with cal. 1530 movements. However, with the introduction of a free sprung balance with micro stella adjusters on the balance wheel & a Breguet overcoiled hairspring on th... 

Very late, but luckily not too late.. I stumbled over this awesome & splendid write-up & pictorial !.. Read & re-read it twice, and..

 
 By: hs111 : March 6th, 2016-07:30
.. have also bookmarked it.. It is such an educative, comprehensive & valuable post. - Simply great, Bill !! The points around your " borders & likelihoods", and inter-relationship between 5513 vs 5512 and their respective movements, are so well taken. - ... 

Thank you for the Repost, Bill

 
 By: thegrailwatch : January 11th, 2020-11:07
Using the search tab I have found countless amazing articles written before my time, and I’m quite sure there are countless more. I would love to see some of the old greats pop-up here and there if possible.

I am consistently astonished by not only the depth and breadth of the knowledge possessed by you and some other Forum members

 
 By: RabidManatee : January 11th, 2020-11:18
but also your willingness to share. I also enjoyed reading your piece on vintage Rolex paperwork. The presence of "pixelation" is also a tell tale sign of fakery in other vintage documents and media. Thanks.

Wonderful post, Bill!

 
 By: Mary Anny : January 11th, 2020-12:13
So useful and interesting. Thank you. Simone

wow...great details Bill !

 
 By: maverickmahesh : January 12th, 2020-02:33
very informative & impressive to see how Rolex kept production of this model consistent for set of years between models - exactly shows how Rolex ensures the supply-demand for key models ! i am much assured now that i've 47600 chances to secure my bir...