WatchProSite|Market|Digest
WatchProSite|Market|Digest

A. Lange & Söhne

Four Thoughts (some not directly responding to your question, though)....

 

(1) The contributions to this thread indicate that Lange did a good job with both the original Dato and the newer Up/Down. Maybe you'll end up with both! Clearly, you can't go TOO far wrong either way. Speaking personally, they both have their merits. After all this spirited discussion, I hope you share with us your eventual choice!

(2) I see an analogy (though not an exact comparison) between your question ("original Dato vs. newer Up/Down?") and the question of "Langematik Perpetual Calendar 301.025 vs. Saxonia Annual Calendar 330.025?" The former LM PC is the "original" model, has Romans on the dial, and is priced significantly differently (in this case higher) than the latter. Of course, they are functionally similar and have the same basic movement. In addition to the aesthetic differences (Romans vs. sticks), there is one major functional difference: The LM PC has the (totally genius) one-button corrector: With each push of the corrector button at the 10 o'clock position, everything (day/date/moonphase/etc.) advances by 1 day.

(3) I REALLY loved the discussion about the "original/icon" aspect of the Datograph. This got me thinking about the following question: "How would all these folks feel about the question of new Lange 1 that was introduced this year in 2015 vs. the original Lange 1 that was introduced in 1994?" The dial sides look practically identical, the movement sides look completely different, and there are some technical/functional changes (just about everyone would say improvements) to the newer version. I wonder what people would say about THAT choice, and why they might feel one way about the Dato but a different way about the Lange 1 choice.

(4) Of course, we tend to prefer, defend, and rationalize our choices for the things that we actually own. That's human nature. My relationship with the Dato is weird in that way when it comes to the Dato's "icon" status. For about 12 years, I never liked the looks of the Dato. The dial was too busy for me, and I'm not a chronograph person in general. Others (some reading this now) gave me a hard time for this -- a deservedly hard time. Then, about a year ago (I think), I ended up getting a preowned YG/black dial Dato (the original version). I wear that watch often and I love it. But because I'm a more recent "convert" to the Dato, I don't feel a particular allegiance to the original version vs. the newer Up/Down. I DO, however, feel that allegiance when it comes to certain other Lange models that I liked from the very moment they were introduced -- for example, the original 1815 Moonphase (vs. the later honey gold version) and honestly the Lange 1 as well (I prefer the "original" version to the newer one introduced in 2015, per my #3 above).

Thanks for indulging my ramblings.

  login to reply
Related Content
expand_more
1815 Grand Complication1815 MoonphaseA. Lange and SöhneDatographLange 1LangematikLangematik PerpetualLangematik PerpetualMoonphaseSaxoniaSaxonia Annual Calendar
💰437 Marketplace Listings for A. Lange and Söhne›A. Lange and Söhne 1815 · 2 for sale · 4349 discussions›A. Lange and Söhne Datograph · 1 for sale · 4075 discussions›A. Lange and Söhne Saxonia · 1 for sale · 1486 discussions›
52 Comments view entire thread 

old datograph vs up down

 
By: thekonger : July 18th, 2015-04:39
i am reading a lot about the merits of the original datograph on this forum. As a prospective buyer of the up down, i didn't understand this as i thought all the changes were for the better; i.e. the power reserve indicator, deletion of roman numerals, in... 

Mechanically, the new one. Aesthetically, the old one, by far.

 
By: amanico : July 18th, 2015-04:49
The flaws of the first one were its strength. A bit thick for its size, not very comfortable on the wrist, but it had charm and character. The new one? Well, its dial looks weird, a bit empty, it lacks charm, it is not the icon the first was, in my opinio...  

I just posted these photos a moment ago somewhere else

 
By: Dylan T. Dutson : July 18th, 2015-06:02
so I hope no one minds it again. I LOVE the 39mm Dato Flyback! Would it be nice to have a power reserve? Yes it absolutely would, BUT, ill give it up for this one. The dial layout, the size, the feel on the wrist, and you just cant argue with this... ...  

Up Down for me but not a judgement

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 18th, 2015-06:35
The UD is an evolution of the Old one. I've been loving the Old one in the past (in spite of the fact it is much heavy for my thin wrist and thus uncomfortable), then the UD was presented, and I was still liking the Old one for a while. But after maybe 6 ... 

The original.

 
By: TheMadDruid : July 18th, 2015-08:23
Mostly for the diameter; but I do like the lay-out better, and I find the UD indicator unnecessary.

It's personal

 
By: ianny : July 18th, 2015-10:14
I trust you have seen both in the metal and tried them on your wrist. The Datograph can feel a little top heavy on the wrist. This is probably due to the height/thickness of the watch which some feel is a little too much relative to the watch case diamete...  

I belong to the category of people who strongly believe that the new version is successful

 
By: foversta : July 18th, 2015-11:49
Why? Because Lange took a lot of care by doing it. The date display was proportionnaly enlarged to create again the perfect triangle with the counters. The power reserve indicator is almost invisible because our eyes are always attracted by the white comp...  

the first one is an icon, the second one is

 
By: ztirual : July 18th, 2015-15:58
not. There is the sale man's view and there is the collector's view. I would think that most amateurs with a feel for vintage would always go for the original model of virtually any watch model. Some lead other follow. Buying a luxury watch is not like bu... 

Saying 39mm is a perfect size is non sense.

 
By: foversta : July 19th, 2015-01:42
Sorry to write this but with such short cuts lead to nothing. Perfect size for what? For your wrist? Mine? For any watch? This one? If we start to write definitive comments, we will not have a lot of things to say on the forum. In a collecting point of vi... 

Dear FX

 
By: ztirual : July 19th, 2015-14:14
Off course I only expressing my personal opinion. The size comment was just added as an aside. Aren't we asked to take part for one or another model? Truly sorry if I have hurt feelings. Z'

Nowadays this is the "Vintage" legitimacy which is considered automatically what is best

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 19th, 2015-15:07
it is like the "bien-pensance" we see very much about morale, etc... It is sometimes impossible to discuss or be objective: one element should automatically rule all the others without discussion. In watchmaking when it is vintage it is automatically cons... 

Sorry Mark

 
By: ztirual : July 20th, 2015-08:21
The question was simply the old vs. the new. The original or an evolution? I prefer t he original and I have very hard to see any situation where it is the opposite. I think there is more substance in what I say than the caricature you make of it. There i... 

Touchy subject

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 20th, 2015-08:40
This is not really but it depends on the approach. When you say: "There is the sale man's view and there is the collector's view" "would think that most amateurs with a feel for vintage would always go for the original model of virtually any watch model. ... 

I think I totally disagree with your sentence Z'

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 19th, 2015-15:00
"I would think that most amateurs with a feel for vintage would always go for the original model of virtually any watch model." This doesn't mean it is the more interesting or the best one. This would mean the older one is always considered to be the nice... 

"I think we may judge a watch compared to its time and to the brands DNA."

 
By: amanico : July 19th, 2015-22:29
I totally agree, and that is why some like Z and myself prefer the old one. The dial was perfect. Iconic. The case, well, it would have been the same, one or two millimeters more, no problem, for me, an improved movement, why not, who would complain, but ... 

That is something I can perfectly understand

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 20th, 2015-07:45
More than on an aesthetical standpoint, comparing the new one with what the old one has built will always lead to an evolution we might see as positive or not. I usually try to see every new pieces on a stand alone basis, without comparing it to the exist... 

"Don't touch the dial"...

 
By: foversta : July 21st, 2015-12:47
Here is the main point of disagreement with you. I agree that the first dial is perfect. It is not the reason to duplicate it. Now, imagine that Lange issues exactly the same watch with 2mm more. I would find this VERY disappointing and let's face it: LAZ... 

I is OK to disagree

 
By: ztirual : July 19th, 2015-23:27
My humble taste for new (4%) and vintage (96%) watches tells me so. They are most often those very first models that have defined the brands DNA. It is very logical. You have to start somewhere to define these codes and it is at those MKI that it really h... 

No, no, don't leave this thread, it is a superb discussion.

 
By: amanico : July 19th, 2015-23:41
your point is perfectly advocated. Yes, with the first version, we most always have the idea, the concept behind the watch. The evolution may be tasty, appealing, successful, but it is, by far, not always the case. I agree on the fact, that, most often, t... 

A forum without this kind of discussion will be boring, won't it?

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 20th, 2015-07:53
This is the kind of discussion that make peolpe think and I'm happy you participate to that discussion Z. When you say the first models define the DNA, I disagree because I personally think that the DNA is not built one and for all with the 1st models but... 

In your Dato search, don't forget

 
By: tahoeblue : July 18th, 2015-13:10
to have a look at a pre-owned Dato/perpetual. Best of all.

I saw the new gray-dial Dato Perp in NYC last week...

 
By: CR : July 19th, 2015-12:34
... and was really impressed with it. I was never a big fan of gray-dial watches or of the Dato Perp (though I might like it more if I had corrected vision!), but this latest iteration is a sweet piece.

Comparing just the aesthetics..

 
By: yming : July 18th, 2015-22:38
I find pluses for both.. For me the plus points are : 1st Gen - Roman numerals that make out a triangle, which balances the date and subdials 2nd Gen - better height x diameter proportion - the lugs look more proportionate - cleaner minute/subminute marki... 

I wonder what everyone's comments would be if

 
By: 4Js : July 19th, 2015-05:49
The new one did not have the power reserve, and if the Romans were put in its place. Then, it seems you gain the better fitting and proportions due to size but retain the strengths of the first gen. I would like to see them side by side to get a feel. Bes... 

In that case, that would be different for me. The power reserve kills the concept of the

 
By: amanico : July 19th, 2015-06:19
Datograph, in my opinion. The holy triangle, which is THE genius idea behind the watch, is broken, ruined, murdered with this insignificant power reserve indicator. What is Datograph? Date + ChronoGRAPH. What is the new one? Datauphabgraph. Not the same, ... 

I don't agree with you.

 
By: foversta : July 19th, 2015-06:49
The power reserve is so shy that you can hardly see it. Where do you see that the triangle is not preserved anymore? Fx

To add something new without spoiling the triangle...

 
By: foversta : July 19th, 2015-07:02
It is the reason why the new version is successful... Creating exactly the same Datograph with 2mm more would have been disappointing from Lange. At the end, everybody is happy. The first Datograph can be found and the new one brings some differences. It ... 

Didn't mean to get the two of you going head to toe!

 
By: 4Js : July 19th, 2015-11:36
I think in the end, Fx is right. Each camp can choose. There are surely enough used original around at fabulous prices. So, save a few bucks and get a second Lange! Best Joe

Yes and it is not the first nor the last time we don't agree!

 
By: foversta : July 19th, 2015-13:07
And I hope that in the forum we all have a lot of disagreements because they usually lead to the best discussions! Fx

For me it was easy choice and I chose....

 
By: Highlander65 : July 20th, 2015-05:18
The original as I much prefer the dial aesthetics. I owned it years back and actually recently was lucky enough to find a NOS from 2009. I went to AD to buy the new UD and was left cold after trying it on. Believe me I tried to like it but found the dial ... 

I like both...........

 
By: TonyR : July 21st, 2015-05:42
I prefer the original in platinum, the look of the watch and the movement raised the bar and set a standard at that time. I for one am used to seeing this watch the way it came out in 1999. The UD is a very nice update but there can only be one original. ... 

Four Thoughts (some not directly responding to your question, though)....

 
By: CR : July 22nd, 2015-06:42
(1) The contributions to this thread indicate that Lange did a good job with both the original Dato and the newer Up/Down. Maybe you'll end up with both! Clearly, you can't go TOO far wrong either way. Speaking personally, they both have their merits. Aft... 

Thanks for this interesting input CR

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 22nd, 2015-15:22
The 3/ is an interesting question but I'll stay far away of it and the 4/ explains a lot too. I would conclude in saying that it all depends on the way we express our opinion and leave others with their own, as there is a difference in expressing a person... 

The "new Lange 1 vs. old Lange 1" question will be especially interesting...

 
By: CR : July 23rd, 2015-06:37
... to see how others handle in the coming years, because the cosmetic differences on the dial side of the Lange 1 are so subtle (unlike the Datograph, in which the dial changed radically). And with the Datograph, Lange officially changed the name by addi... 

I think you're right

 
By: Mark in Paris : July 23rd, 2015-07:05
I don't really know the differences as it was difficult to judge without comparing two pictures (which I didn't do) but I would say that for the L1, it will really concern the collectors perfectly knowing both references. This means, imho, that 99% of the... 

The new Lange 1 is the first real Lange 1

 
By: COUNT DE MONET : July 23rd, 2015-08:14
The new Lange 1 is another example that times are strange for watch fans: Patek releases the first in-house chrono but can not repeat the success of the Lemania based one. With the Lange 1 I fear it will be the same: the first L1 was "based" on a JLC move... 

THe old Dato was more traditional than the new Dato which is state of the art tradition

 
By: COUNT DE MONET : July 23rd, 2015-08:04
The new Dato lacks a Malteser cross which hinder one from over winding the it. The new one has got a stronger and "better" mainspring but not the Malteser cross anymore. Hence the power reserve indicator in the dial. My stance here: I would choose over th... 

Both are great options but what about the 1815 chrono

 
By: kha1400 : July 23rd, 2015-18:07
I am a relatively new owner of the up down but looked at both. I preferred the up down as I found the indicator quite useful. It also adds a stronger vertical line from the date down to the power reserve. I feel the added dimension is just another way Lan...