vernon
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Always exceptions to rules....
and it's often the discussions around the exceptions and border lines that are interesting.
I have a 1989 (sold feb 1990) Submariner 5513, which is thus a pretty late one and I have always considered it a bit borderline/on the edge to call vintage, mainly because of the date (it does'nt quite hit 25 years yet!). It has tritium indexes, T<25 on the dial, and a plexy crystal (domed but not super dome) though.
It does have the gloss dial with white gold surrounds to the indices - the 'bicchierini', which does'nt seem to be as favoured by some, although I actually like it a lot.
So, it ticks the three 'vintage' boxes - four figure ref, plexy, tritium. So strictly could (should?) be considered vintage. I'm sure there are those that would not consider it to be vintage - but after reading your article, I think it is - so thank you for clearing that up for me (at least).
The other similar conundrum is perhaps around watches with flat sapphire crystals but matt dials, which you touch on in your article. Plexy seems a pretty critical factor but having said that I tend to find that I naturally think of a matt dial watch with patinated tritium under sapphire as a vintage watch too!
Your article is fantastic - it educates and also makes us think about what we perhaps previously took for granted. I enjoyed it very much.
Best wishes,
Vernon.
Rolex – The comprehensive Guide to Vintage Rolex, defining what is Vintage Rolex.
We all know vintage simply means old but what defines true Rolex vintage in a comprehensive and universal way. This report will attempt to give you a thorough explanation of how to recognize Vintage Rolex. Rolex Submariner Gilt circa 1963 - 1966 What are ...
Terrific post
Thank you Bill for taking the time to write this post. As a recent vintage convert, I really like your perspective. No doubt some may disagree but it's a terrific starting point for a discussion. My favorite line is 'if it's plexi, it's sexy!' OpC
I think if we can get 90% of the way we are golden
Trying to get the last 10% takes 90% of the energy. For me hitting the the three high notes covers enough that the rest is gravy. Glad you enjoyed it. Bill
Now that is one superb report
Thanks so much Bill for this highly informative post. It sheds a light for a novice like myself and I feel better armed now to make a first foray into vintage Rolex. This wil no doubt become a reference post that I will return to as and when an opportunit...
With Rolex black and white is hard to achieve
But I think here we have mostly black and white with only shades of gray. Pleased you enjoyed it. Bill
Thank you for a great read, Bill !
As a beginner when it comes to Rolex, this is great info! Bookmarked! :) Best Blomman
Very interesting article and base of discussion, Bill.
First of all, thanks for this excellent article, Bill. As for the classification, my opinion is that the neatest criteria is the 4 Digit Ref Number, not the year. A clear example: The Dayto: The 4 Digit Ref number came till what... 1986, 1987? Before the ...
If we can agree on 90% I am satisfied
The goal for me was to establish a solid baseline. If we get the base level and cover the majority the rest of the 10% can be a subject of discussion. The rest is history. Thanks Bill
All there is to say is..
Thank you Bill for this very educational and nicely written no BS post Sincerely Damjan
very nice post ....
by the way 9.999.999 is in fact a 1987 production . in my opinion " vintage " is all produced before luminova .. so up to 1998/9 depending on the model.
Agreed - but is 1987-1998/99 Vintage Rolex or Neo Vintage Rolex.
It seems that most will agree on the basic examples cited as Pure Vintage Rolex and as I noted it covers the majority of vintage Rolex. The Period 1987 - 1998/9 can be included into the Vintage world but with a story each time to explain which part makes ...
pas de quoi !!
we could also do the same thing already in use for vintage cars : for ex. when a watch is 20 years old .. it instantly becomes a " vintage " one .. the cruel thing will happen in 2018/9 ... when lumi dials will have 20 years ..... what shall we do then ??...
oh yes !!
" Allons enfants de la Patrie Le jour de gloire est arrive !! " after all some of us have a big piece of their hearts in Marseilles .. LLOOLLLL
Always exceptions to rules....
and it's often the discussions around the exceptions and border lines that are interesting. I have a 1989 (sold feb 1990) Submariner 5513, which is thus a pretty late one and I have always considered it a bit borderline/on the edge to call vintage, mainly...
Your 5513 is absolutely in the Vintage Rolex camp
Just hitting the the the four digit would do it, adding plexi and Tritium and you hit it out of the park. On the second watch you mentioned sapphire crystal with a matt dial "painted index - tritium" fits the vintage Rolex mold with little question which ...
Major work ...
Bill, Even considering that I cannot be a Rolex owner on the country that I live, I saved your post for future reference and shared the link with some friends that lurks here. I consider vintage Rolex one of the most complex areas on watch collecting and ...
Your comment had me thinking about a good trick to protect your Rolex
I heard about this technique from a friend who had friend who had a bad incident. Yes theft out on the street it was in a European country which will remain nameless. However the technique is valid anywhere in the world. Basically what is recognizable is ...
It may work in Europe ....
But not here. A friend was robbed when he was wearing his Sub on a Seiko nylon strap. Cheers, Nilo
In any case the NATO is safer
If you are gun point that is another story. I am just talking about being spotted and the grab and run. Bill
Comprehensive and indispensable comments
Fantastic Bill. Really captures the heart pif what we currently see as vintage. I wonder whether watches, like cars, develop a strata of agedness? For cars it goes, modern, classic vintage. For watches, do we distinguish between what you define here as "v...
So, spanning the vintage range would be....for me....
This..... To this And these two have a weird symmetry too.... the 6200 having the explorer dial, whilst the 16550 not having that 3-6-9! I would fully agree that the transitional models such as the 16550 would definitely come under the broad heading of "v...
Wow, really an eye opener!
I honestly have been avoiding Rolex, but getting interested recently - and now I know a lot more about it than a few months back. Thank you, Bill! Ken
This is a superb write-up.. Clear, comprehensive.. And for a passionated target
.. Thank you kindly , Bill for this seminal post, which BTW, I have read and re-read 3 times, since yesterday and already bookmarked; - It encompasses in a comprehensive and pragmatic way guidelines, that are very helpful, for newbie, and more experienced...
For me, Vintage moves with the time.
First of all, very nice post Bill ! I think Vintage is something that moves with the time. What i mean is, today, we can say that watches from more than 25 years are vintage. It will remain the same in 25 years. In 2039, watches from 2013 will be consider...
The goal of the article is to define a fixed period "Classic" Vintage Rolex
Here we have certain attributes and materials used that will not be used again so this classification will endure the ravages of time. Materials used in the dials like tritium or four digit model numbers will not be repeated so the models that fit this de...
Classic vintage Rolex... That is a very seductive appellation!
Very à propos, I find. Excellent. Best, Nicolas
It may be the time to coine this Phrase "Classic Vintage Rolex""
Just to distinguish this time period and to establish the fact that is is not a rolling window in time that once something is 20 years old it is vintage Rolex. We can add a conclusion to the post and ad this term. Bill
What a post Bill!! Thank you so much for all the time...
... invested in such an elaborate article! Classification of Rolex models in vintage and modern has been a long term debate. Your present article settles beautifully our doubts. Of course everything in Rolex will arise some debate, and the view of our dea...
I think we will end with three classifications for Vintage Rolex
I would vote to classify them as Classic Vintage Rolex - (For the Purist - no discussion or interpretation) Four digit Model Reference up to 1987 Vintage Rolex - Generic term to encompass Classic and Transitional in the widest sense Transitional Models to...
Absolutely FANTASTIC article, Bill. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it...
...and I'm sure I shall read it again and again. Very very enjoyable. Thanks for a great, and humorous write up. Cheers Tony
Thanks for clarifying this for those of us who are not so expert.
It will help with my search for a totally original 5512 from 1971, at least now I know exactly what to look for. Cheers Steve
Going for the old Steve McQueen 5512 1971 good choice
You will good with that on your wrist. Here is the model. Bill ...
Thanks for the pics, hoping to get one whenever
it pops up. It seems to be a pretty rare year for some reason. There are lots pre 70's about, especially from '67 on offer but mostly comex's (too expensive for me) from 71 and if there are others, the back case states 5513 instead of the 5512. I'm lookin...
On the 5512 a 5513 caseback is correct
It is very often tat the caseback used at the Rolex factory was what they had available and the 5512 was coming to the end of its production they used 5513 casebacks. You will find your 5512. Bill
Thanks, do you think that for the year 71 only 5513
would only be stamped on back of a 5512 or would there be models with the proper 5512 stamped. There is no point in me waiting for one with a 5512 stamp if it never existed? Thanks for the help. Cheers Steve
Excellent and helpful report!
Thank you, Billy, it is a concise and precise guide about vintage and specially clarifies many points regarding vintage concept and definition which is always a matter of discussion.. Kind regards
In this case just a little knowledge goes a long way
All you need to remember is having a four digit model number located between the lugs and you are in unchallenged Rolex Vintage territory. Once you leave that safe harbor you get into alligators when it come to defining Vintage Rolex. But then again that ...
great tutotial Bill!
I wish I had had that when I started getting into this 5 years ago!!!...you can include Tudor as well! Matt
Absolutely Tudor as well
You can follow the same basic guideline for vintage Tudor. I am glad you enjoyed it. Bill
Thank you for such informative writing
learned a few things today. I meant no disrespect but am just being curious. Who sets these definitions? is this a similar case as to which brands are defined as the "holy trinity" in horological world?
If only I had known this 10 years ago
but wait, I did read it then. I’ve just forgotten everything in the decade since… :-( and got caught up in all those other 5-digit name watches from across the Pacific. Thanks for reviving it. Mike
Outstanding post and super educationally for those of us who don’t now much about vintage Rolex. Well done!
Bill, does this type of information live in an archive someplace on the site? It would be helpful to be able to go back and read at a future date.
