ramon74
48
very interesting discussion indeed..
i' d just like to remind you gentlemen that there is a relative value in scarcity of labor. it was much easier to find accomplished artisans/technicians back then relatively than it is today. It's true on virtually everything labor-intensive as long there is no cheap labor competition from emerging nations.
Also, arguably watches today are in general simply better machines than back then.
Patek is Patek. They probably know what they are doing. They have been around for quite a long time and the legion of admirers/customers keep growing.
Just my 2c.
Ramon
Are some Pateks overpriced for what they are?
I recently spent a bit of time at a well known PP ad in Singapore. I had gone there to give two of my mom's PP's for servicing. The gentleman in charge of PP was very nice and showed me some really exceptional PP's while I was waiting for the service rece...
Right price.
The prices are not set for costs & development reasons. The right price is the price people are willing to pay to get the desired object. That's all. The Patek are not overpriced if people buy them. Fx
What you say is true for any product or service in the world. But
Would you be prepared to pay SGD $ 37000 for the 5123?
I agree with your assessment
I think that this is the underlying reason why some complicated models are discontinued recently. If customers refuse to pay the price asked, they sit in AD's inventory. Just supply and demand.
I just feel that PP prices for their regular models should
come a bit down (not all that much down) to earth. I believe PP excels in the realm of complicated / grand complications, and this is an area where their prices are justified. For example, I can understand the price of the Chronograph 5170, as it is new a...
Pp "aftermarket"
Pp has the best aftermarket system in place: any watch, any part can be serviced at any time. This adds to the collectibility of the marque which allows pp to hold its value. So more expensive but also easier to sell at a later date. That said, I agree wi...
5123 very comfortable
I saw a 5123 at my AD when searching for a watch, tried it on, and found it to be the most comfortable watch on the market. Love the lugs recessed into the body so they don't dig into my wrist. It was 3-5K more than similar VC/ALS and AP, but it was comfo...
The eyewear industry is overpriced, but people continue paying for them...
Luxotica, an eyewear monopoly, makes glasses and sunglasses very overpriced. But, people are still willing to pay for them. Whom are you to say something is overpriced if people are willing to pay for them? It'd just be overpriced to you.
Ever buy a $10 hotdog?
At a concert, ball game, etc? Just because some people are willing to pay it doesn't negate the point that it may or may not be overpriced.
Truthfully
I think you'll find that most luxury goods are overpriced to varying degrees, and I suppose that the high price and consequent sense of exclusivity is in itself a major draw for some. I do agree that there are some models in the current Patek catalogue th...
Everything is relative...
And hence there is no right answer :D But I understand your post so here's my pov: I buy what I love and can afford. Obviously I compare brands and references and some elements of relative value and prices come to play. I didn't buy a calatrava but instea...
I would think the simple answer would be yes.
But it does not necessarily exclude all other high end brands. They and their pricing exist because of high level of interest, ego, envy, pride, incredible marketing, etc. But it applies to a lot of other products as well .. artwork, furniture, guns, clot...
Thank you all for your responses. It seems most tend to
Agree with me that PP simple models are overpriced for what they are. I want to raise a few other points: One of you said that who am I to think something is overpriced if people are willing to pay for them. There are lots of ignorant wealthy people who s...
A detail here
you wrote "One of you said that who am I to think something is overpriced if people are willing to pay for them. There are lots of ignorant wealthy people who splurge huge amounts of money on watches by designer brands. Honestly are these watches worth it...
Francois I think I see where you are coming from in terms of
Opinion. I guess if we use economic theory as a guide, then what you are saying is correct. Perhaps it is a combination of demand and supply and markets being logical. But in reality, I see a whole new scenario . I see a world with a lot of wealthy and su...
you have it right when you say
"Each one is entitled to his or her own taste and make his or her own decision" WIS or not, if it sells, it sells. That's what count for the brand and as long as the customer is happy, it is the only thing that matters. If someone buys the 5123 and likes ...
yes
i find it hard to justify over 30k for a stainless steel watch that price point it should always be precious metals IMHO
I think yes!
And no. Let's take 5170. This watch is having a crazy price tag taking into account that it is a (simple) chronograph. The result is that many dealers are ready to negotiate the price and give a good discount. Also from the second hand market it is possib...
+1
Saw Calatrava 5227G in Patek boutique.......... Nice simple piece, dust cover back, date window, second hand, lacquer dial, pin buckle........nice..........but simple. But, bitte..........the Price!!! Incomprehensibly high - at least to me - for me price/...
We could have the same discussion ...
for almost any brand in that range, can´t we?! By the way, you are right we don´t discuss prices here at PuristSPro. But what´s about value ? Value is based on knowledge, interestes, favours ... and very subjective at the end. For example : I think the Re...
Let the market decide.
I certainly want PP's price to be cheaper. Who doesn't want? Many years ago, buyers from China prepared to pay retail price and if the AD gave them 5%-10% discount, they were satisfied. Today, they ask for discount and are not interested in 5%-10% anymore...
I think PP has not raised prices since 2011
In fact, some of the 2013 models you see some prices are actually lower then 2012. Eg is the 2013 5205R is cheaper then the 5205G price list. I think all NEW PP models will have slight adjustment on prices. PP realise they cannot sell their watches if the...
PP prices in Singapore
kpk, PP pricing in Singapore is a but unusual in that prices for watches 2012 and before are very overpriced. The 2013 new model prices are more in line with the rest of the world. If you compare the price of the PP 5170J vs. the PP 5170G, it is much high...
Note to all: Please keep in mind ...
we still have our Discussion Board Code of Conduct In case you really don´t know it, here we go: amp;fi= Extract : Posts about street prices and seller references: Connoisseurship, ownership and collecting is about much more than price and who sells what...
Funny!
If the Patek Philippe price for gold watches are crazy, then what about plain navy blue coat from Kiton at 7000 Euro?
"plain navy blue coat"
Now we know what is written on the price tag, but we don´t know what is written on the label inside (material ...) and we don´t know how it is made. Maybe it´s a "bargain" for what it is, but only for those who know ... Luxury without knowledge is nonsens...
I didn't realize that my post would get so many responses and
Points of view. Thank you everyone and it is all in good faith /fun. While I feel that some Pateks are quite expensive for what they, the same is true for other brands as well. At least PP and VC have watchmaking heritage and savor faire. It's sad when br...
No one has considered
that if you adjust for inflation, almost all mechanical watches pre quartz crisis were more affordable. The only ones we know about that break that theory are custom pieces.
I have been calculating
i.e. how many monthly salaries a basic chronograph was costing in 1950 in Switzerland and US for an average man. An the same calculation I made this year. The results are sad and according to those it was heck of a lot cheaper to produce things by hand in...
+1 Again
Interesting re historic prices....... Would also be interesting to know Patek profit margins, as well as dealer markups.........both are essential parts of the equation. But when all is said, Patek produces across the board lovely very well made products ...
"Would also be interesting to know ..."
... the details of your business, private income, financial situation ... ;-) Just buy what you love and can afford. That´s all! We can´t change the world (good or bad) and so I would prefer to come back to watches. Thanks! Oliver
+2 ( with a graphic price evolution !
Your calculations are justified. Same comparisons were made on a French watch forum on the Speedmaster Omega. This example is quite interesting, because this watch hasn't changed for decades, except some joins and oils. And it drives to the same conclusio...
Thank you.
When I made the same, based on official statistics, with PP prices both in Switzerland and US, the curves looked even worse. My idea was to find how long an average man had to work to acquire a PP chronograph in 1950 vs. today. As we do not discuss prices...
Yes
In general most of the luxury items for sale in the world are overpriced-- regardless---but I have to agree with you. I think for what you get--- some of the PP models are particularly overpriced. I was considering their newer 5164… which is basically a G...
very interesting discussion indeed..
i' d just like to remind you gentlemen that there is a relative value in scarcity of labor. it was much easier to find accomplished artisans/technicians back then relatively t han it is today. It's true on virtually everything labor-intensive as long ther...
Veblen good...
Unfortunately for many of us "true watch geeks" - I feel that fine timepieces are now firmly in the Veblen good category: ... in other words, the higher the price, the greater the demand. There's a reason why AP is spending so much money on celebrity "am...
Maybe you are right and watches belong to ...
the Veblen good category, but at the end each one of us can take his own decisions based on his own criterias. If someone claims price (only) is quality, I am out. If a brands starts to spend a huge amount on celebrities, parties ... and marketing, they h...
Quality and design are the key aspects of my horological addiction.
Quality and design are the key aspects of my horological addiction. As you mentioned if top brands fail to deliver on quality then I can get really crossed. Quality is important because in these days and age where everything is single use and disposable, ...