I'm in the same boat. Did your watch go back to the manufacture or to a service center?

Mar 01, 2021,06:27 AM

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Critical review on the JLC brand and product

 By: eklektik : February 27th, 2021-15:00
Hello all, Just watched this video. Maybe it has been discussed here in the past as it is 10 months old but here it is if not. I find it a bit harsh but rather true. I am a big JLC fan, and I like the brand for its technical aspect and its classic looks. ... 

She has a few good points...

 By: mdg : February 27th, 2021-15:13
...about having more 'signature' watches in the lineup...but those don't grow on trees. Overall, 12 minutes I'll never get back.

Yes. I want my 12 minutes back too. What rubbish.

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-16:09
And frankly, "signature piece" means different things to different people. For me, JLC's "Reverso" has been their signature piece since I was ten years old. But if you ask the employees at JLC, they'll say I'm crazy, the Reverso is a slow seller, since mo... 

Totally disagree..

 By: myles721 : February 27th, 2021-15:20
JLC’s problems are quality control plain and simple...WAY to many finishing / movement issues.


 By: Reuven Malter : February 27th, 2021-15:21

Completely agree on QC issues

 By: chikai168 : February 28th, 2021-04:11
I have had an AMVOX 2 in for service since September. Came back first in November and the chronograph and watch stops when the minute count reaches 11; plus the date wheel does not always engage when the crown is pulled to position 1. Fair enough, mistake... 

Had same problems with my Duoface.

 By: myles721 : February 28th, 2021-04:20
Bad workmanship...watch stopped 3 times. Had to hire an attorney to get e refund. Shameless.

That is a shame

 By: chikai168 : February 28th, 2021-06:32
The Duoface is a lovely watch..... it seems strange to me how they can’t seem to fix and repair their own watches at times.

Richemont svc centers, burning customers and killing brands one watch at a time...

 By: Fastwong : March 3rd, 2021-06:40
Service at the manufacture than was better than the us Richemont svc center but not without issues. I would suggest trying to send your watch to CH this time around. My watches have just returned from another round of servicing in record time (8 weeks!), ... 

I completely agree, I normally ignore her, but I only watched her because Eklektic mentioned his agreement with her. Which inspired me to watch her.

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-16:11
Otherwise, I find her videos to be almost always heavily biased, shallow, and pointless. This one did not disappoint, it was indeed heavily biased, shallow, and pointless. Furthermore, she didn't back up her opinions/arguments with facts. It's just her op... 

Good point.

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-02:09
We have statistical bias. Her group of friends whom she talks to about JLC may be unfamiliar of the age when JLC had a bigger role in the industry. Hence why she assumes many people think about JLC in a specific light.

Totally agree Reuven

 By: Weems@8 : February 28th, 2021-04:05
You totally right. That stupid goose can not taken seriously. If someone have a problem with a JLC watch, contact your AD.

I don’t know about this analysis,

 By: iulianbutum : February 27th, 2021-15:33
I just know I have two JLC divers and I’m trying hard to buy another one

I am not in agreement with her assessment

 By: mhz > vph : February 27th, 2021-15:35
I saw this video near the time of its release. I watched it again now and still disagree with her conclusion. It is true that JLC relies heavily on the reverso, and that the brand is past its prime. But in truth, all the great maisons are past their prime... 

"It is true that JLC relies heavily on the reverso..."...

 By: mdg : February 27th, 2021-15:52
...Could just as easily be "It is true that AP relies heavily on the Royal Oak..."

Actually, I disagree with that too...

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-16:15
JLC internally, does not rely heavily on Reverso. Some JLC boutiques will dedicate a significant percentage of showcase space to Reverso, but the top SKU sellers are the automatic Master Ultra Thin with Date and the automatic Master Ultra Thin with Moonph... 


 By: mhz > vph : February 27th, 2021-19:58
Today I learned something about JLC sales figures. Thanks for the insight!

You’re most welcome!

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-02:20
JLC doesn’t publish round watch vs shaped watch reports in any financial reports. The Richemont annual report doesn’t give that kind of detail. But if you speak to JLC boutique managers, and JLC executives at SIHH, the most popular SKUs in many major mark... 


 By: Cookies : February 28th, 2021-02:27

If you want to skip the 12 minutes her main points are;

 By: oyster case : February 27th, 2021-15:40
1 "People always associate JLC with other brands or the calibres they make for other brands" 2 "JLC has failed to establish itself as a manufacturer of original watches" The lack of individual identity and being defined by analogies to other brands and th... 

I think she makes a couple of valid points, but it's just impossible to address issues that deep and complicated in 12 minutes..."Patek quality at the price of Rolex" was the pithy line to take home, though also an oversimplification.

 By: FabR : February 27th, 2021-15:44
My own general perception of JLC is that of a good watchmaker with, overall, fewer problems than many other brands. While Patek, Vacheron, AP and a bunch of others are obviously in a different league, if you want a good watch at a great price then often J... 

While the video has that contrived casual delivery I believe her "Patek quality at the price of Rolex"

 By: oyster case : February 27th, 2021-15:56
does sum up her argument quite well i.e. the brand lacks original identity and is defined by analogies to other brands.

And JLC is not Patek quality at the price of Rolex...

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-16:27
The movement architecture is not quite as good as Patek, the finishing is definitely not nearly as good, and the price isn't really equivalent to Rolex. The reason why JLC is not successful is because it lacks a key quality... In traditional business, a c... 

I agree the line isn't at all accurate. Seems like the kind of channel that explains watches to an audience lacking experience or genuine passion.

 By: oyster case : February 27th, 2021-16:37
She also comes across that way. Likeable and pleasant, an attractive woman but is there much true passion below the surface?

Men love women with masculine pursuits...

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-16:48
This is one of the reasons why Jenni Elle has been so successful. Men simply love women who drink whiskey, smoke cigars, drive sports cars, and like watches; because those kinds of women are unusual. Jenni Elle is a newcomer to a game where she doesn't kn... 

That is a bit harsh ... Do we require people to be "qualified" to express their opinions on this forum?

 By: als1678 : February 27th, 2021-19:15
In watch "journalism" even extremely knowledgeable people tend to shameless promoters of products that they personally loathe. This is the price one needs to pay for access. Is that better? She is entitled to her own opinions. You can of course disagree o... 

I never said any of that. I didn’t even say she was popular. Nor did I say that anyone has to be qualified to be on this forum. And she’s not even on this forum.

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-01:24
Respectfully, I actually didn’t say what you alluded. I never said she was popular, and there’s no qualification to be on this forum. Furthermore she isn’t even on this forum to my knowledge. What I did say is that her opinions and arguments are poorly fo... 

I share your general sentiment about poorly informed people being able to reach a huge audience and influence opinions.

 By: als1678 : February 28th, 2021-03:52
But we are just talking about watches here ... My point was that a) she is not worse than the average watch channel / blog (not especially well informed but sometimes there are cool micro shots of interesting pieces) b) we should be generous and judge her... 

You bring up a very good point Als1678!

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-12:33
You're right. You bring up a very good point. I always try to behave like I would in person, at a cocktail party. If I were at a cocktail party, I would vehemently try to correct inaccurate depictions of the watch industry by watch journalists and vlogger... 

Thank you for taking the time to write a detailed response.

 By: als1678 : February 28th, 2021-15:03
I don't disagree with anything you say ... Yes, Jenni Ellie speaks as if she has knowledge and authority, and she doesn't. At least she doesn't present herself as a journalist, but that doesn't answer your criticism anyway. I completely understand why she... 

Why thank you Als1678 for your kind words!

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-20:57
I'm going to guess that you work, have a busy life, and don't have time to waste. You're probably even busier than me. I would probably suggest that Jenni Elle be not on your radar. But I do like "" and Tim Mosso's Watch Talk shows. Some of the Revolution... 

Yep, I totally agree on these points. A point in JLC's favor is that I don't think they even aim at competing with Patek or Rolex in their respective categories, nor their buyers necessarily expect them to.

 By: FabR : February 27th, 2021-17:04
It's true they don't have a strong identity, nor as you say, they are clearly regarded as being at the top in at least some area. In fact, perhaps even more problematic, it's not easy to identify what that area might be. You may also add a variety of othe... 

People talk about Patek and AP because they're hot products. People always love talking about what's HOT because it makes them feel more current...

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-17:16
On the other hand, I like discussing my Reverso and Master Ultra Thin 38, even though none of these are hot pieces. And my posts go mostly unread. But if Mr. Naughty Nautilus wants to come out and give another interview, that would definitely get a lot of... 

Total waste of time. Classically, I find Jenni Elle's videos to be very shallow, pointless, and biased...

 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2021-16:00
Hi Eklektic, I didn't find anything true about her video. I totally disagree with you. Other than her historical summary, there was nothing factual nor accurate about her opinions. A total waste of time. First Jenni Elle waxes poetically about JLC's histo... 

Actually, i even doubt that anyone really talks about JLCs business partners in the 40s and 50s.

 By: Reuven Malter : February 27th, 2021-17:17
That is a standard note in every average watchbook, but nothing more.

+1 I think her 'problems' with JLC are completely off base

 By: logan2z : February 27th, 2021-18:10
As someone said above, if JLC has a problem at all it seems to be in the QC department. Way too many stories of watches with issues straight out of the box. Oh, and that Master Ultrathin is absolutely gorgeous and screams JLC in every way. I don't think t... 

I'd never heard of her until today...

 By: mdg : February 27th, 2021-22:35
...but she sorely needs an editor. It took her 12 minutes (a lifetime in social media) to summarize what could have been done in 4 minutes and a few bullet points. How many close-up shots of a poorly-finished minute hand do I need to see?

I can’t disagree with that! She does need an editor.

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-01:51
I need an editor too! I’m not word efficient. I remember in forensics class I was sharply criticized for word inefficiency. Her other problem is that she identifies problems that seem relatively minor and she doesn’t convince me that they’re “serious” pro... 

The point that I find interesting is the product image and the evolution of the segmentation...

 By: eklektik : March 1st, 2021-04:00
Hi Patrick, Maybe my disappointment to see some lines disappearing (like the Geophysic line for example, which lasted only a few years and did not survive) and the fact that the Master Ultra Thin family is not so Ultra Thin anymore (inc. Automatic movemen... 

It can be very disappointing indeed...

 By: patrick_y : March 2nd, 2021-09:14
You're absolutely right! I too am saddened to see some of my favorite pieces disappearing from the menu. The fact that the Master Ultra Thin line is no longer in existence is very sad for me! The fact that it didn't all of a sudden generate a lot of buzz ... 

This is a great point. Middle brands are dead brands

 By: Fastwong : March 2nd, 2021-20:49
The best or the cheapest, the nuances of value have been lost one today's consumer which is fine since theres no middle class anyway...

That's so very true!

 By: patrick_y : March 2nd, 2021-22:26
People will always be proud to own the best, and brag about it.

Expanding on what Formula 1 fans want to hear...

 By: patrick_y : March 3rd, 2021-10:50
F1 fans want to hear the drivers talk about their triumphs over other drivers. They expect animated stories where the driver gives hand motions and pretends to be controlling the steering wheel. Like children, these F1 fans want to hear the drivers make t... 

I like your comparison to the car world

 By: eklektik : March 3rd, 2021-15:26
There was recently an interesting article about the Aston Martin's CEO's ambitions for the brand: Could we say that JLC is to watchmaking what Aston Martin is to luxury car industry? Ambitious, respected, but never at the very top despite tryng for years... 

JLC isn't aiming for the top, JLC is happy being in the "middle tier"

 By: patrick_y : March 3rd, 2021-16:28
That might be a good analogy. But I don't see JLC aiming that high, at least not yet. JLC isn't about being in the top tier all the time, they're very happy being in the middle tier and to be making unusual complications. JLC isn't about fine finishing no... 

Interesting topic of discussion ... It is easy to label the video as shallow and biased.

 By: als1678 : February 27th, 2021-17:44
But if nothing else, it is informative as to how millenial watch lovers think of JLC. Which might be very different from the knowledgeable crowd on this forum. Or not .. I have to say - modern JLC does not sit well with me personally. I don't remember a s... 

Yes. Sad but I agree

 By: Fastwong : February 27th, 2021-20:18

I completely agree with you here Als1678!

 By: patrick_y : February 28th, 2021-01:42
I don’t know if Jenni Elle represents a large percentage of the millennial populations’ thoughts about JLC. But she seems to be confident that many people share her own thoughts. I also personally agree with you that not all of the new products are very e... 

Your comment on "how many of them would be releases from the past ten years" is what resonated in me.

 By: eklektik : March 1st, 2021-04:07
As in my reply to Patrick, I wish to JLC to make product families that will last for 2 decades. The ending of the Geophysic line was disappointing, and now we are bouncing on the second most famous historical name, Polaris. How long for? Will it last? Wha... 

Ah... youtube watch bloggers

 By: benlee338 : March 4th, 2021-08:17
Other than a few good ones, most are self-promoted "experts" that don't have much substances in the opinions they offer. I do watch some of her videos primary because her videography is quite good and I love watching nice videos of watches. As for her opi... 

+1, well said Ben 👏

 By: holdemchamp1225 : March 4th, 2021-11:27

I have watch a few of her videos.

 By: LS : February 27th, 2021-17:47
IMO she has a very negative attitude. Some women are like that, I guess.

I didn't watch the whole video, 30 seconds of fast forward😎

 By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : February 28th, 2021-01:05
But I've read your posts. I guess and agree that part of her success is because horology is basically a men's world. It's extremely rare (no commercial purpose intended 😜) to discuss with a knowledgeable woman, but unfortunately she's not Carole Forestier... 

I agree

 By: eklektik : March 1st, 2021-03:40
I agree with your comment. Debating here always brings interesting opinions and point of views, and that was the reason of my original posting. Best, E.

Hers is not a program

 By: Gwai : February 28th, 2021-03:43
for grown-ups, in my opinion. Full disclosure: Embarrassed to find I did discuss that video last April with watch pals of mine - without having watched it in full. Didn't go THAT far... Cheers Marc

I get what she’s driving at and I kind of agree. It’s just that she tends to generalize on things as these youtubers do that it shuts the door right away to a further drill down of their statements..

 By: Echi : February 28th, 2021-19:58
Which may mean that they only possess surface knowledge of the topic. On the other hand, people who have been around know JLC and their product lines and that they’re more than just the Reverso. The potential danger here, as shown by this video, is the pe... 

JLC is more discreet than some other brands, and I have no issue with that, but she does. No mention of geophysic, duometre, master control approach. Branding is empty to me.

 By: Handwound : March 3rd, 2021-13:45
No mention of innovations. There are reasons we’re all out here on JLC, and it’s not because they’re well known symbols of conspicuous consumption as Rolex or patek or AP. I have reversos that have been noticed by others only two or three times in several... 

I totally agree

 By: eklektik : March 3rd, 2021-15:16
All these reasons are also why I love what JLC represents. It is very personal but I prefer their image to Rolex's for example, which is too recognisable. I wish them well for the future! Best, E.

When the caravan passes, the dogs bark

 By: Alfihar : March 3rd, 2021-21:18
We live in a world where controversy is king. The principle of social networks is to generate traffic or what better than antagonism, love and hate to gain an audience. Excessive or fakes news are also effective in this strange world .... JLC is not a per... 

Since I have nothing really positive to say about this YouTuber or her thoughts on JLC, I will refrain from making any disparaging remarks 😁😉🤣

 By: holdemchamp1225 : March 4th, 2021-11:31
I think my adoration for JLC speaks for itself in the pieces I choose to own. We all know their competence if given the chance. La Grande Maison is a sleeping giant that has sadly been put to sleep by Richemont BUT their greatness is still there, waiting ... 

I think it's interesting that her channel has so many views and subscribers despite being only a year old....

 By: jleno : March 4th, 2021-16:17
I'm wondering if this is just due to mastering the art of clickbait titles and thumbnails? Her channel does focus more on Rolex as well which could be part of it. Taking a quick glance, it looks like Teddy Baldasarre's channel has had similar success with...