Independents

I am fortunate to be retiring next year and have in mind a retirement gift to myself (seemed like a good excuse!). Both alternatives are watches I truly love (buying both is regrettably not an option!) and waiting three years for a dream watch is not an i...  

Although a huge fan of Patek perpetual - watches from RW Smith are out of this world Only a few 10made each year, this is a perfect retirement gift. The detail of every piece, the finishing,... Astonishing i think!

I seem to be drawn towards that direction too as it seems a once in a lifetime opportunity. My only concern is where RW Smith will be in 50 years time but then again, I doubt if I need to worry about that

(no one will be able to outperform them as they do on 2nd hand market/auctions,...) but who knows in 50years time the student may have outgrown his master! And in 50years time max. 500watches will be made by the hand of RW Smith, whereas Patek will have p... 

RW Smith watches are actually out performing Pateks of a similar age in the used market and at auctions. It is all down to the supply and demand and the long waiting list for his watches. Only Daniels and Philippe Dufour do as well if not better.

No contest You\'ve "made it" with a Smith. Patek - while undeniable cool is not in the same league Congratulations on tour dilemma! Sweet choices both of these

In Roger’s case, I’d probably lean more towards the more colourful and applied numerals/arabics of a Kari Voutilainen. In Patek’s case, I’d soon explore (cheaper priced) alternatives from AL&S, Girard Perregaux*, and a fair few others. With regards to a 3... 

for your suggestions I must confess that I have tried many watches and due to my small wrist, most watches over 40mm would not work for me. Saying that the Patek is 41mm but the curved lugs helped a lot. I am partial to these two watches mainly because of... 

Nothing against RS, but Kari's creations are so beautiful and sublime... Obviously, that's the way I've chosen to go. RS is wonderful but his designs just don't speak to me in the same way. I have nothing to say against the Patek. I realize I'm swimming a... 

That the Patek is a sublime design with an amazing movement. I like Kari's movements but I cannot appreciate his dials enough. Yes you read that right! Perhaps they are too avant garde for my conservative 'I love Breguet mindset!' For the last four years,... 

jst buy it. You know that you want it and it's the romanticism of the 10 watches a year and beautiful finishes. I was in a similar preciajent and between Series 2 and the open work 1 (4 just too much). Eventually I went KV. I felt RWS was too much like Sa... 

For the very reason that you have already mentioned; much more likely for Patek to be around in the years to come. I also like the calendar function of the Patek and knowing so many parts are involved to make it work. Good luck with your decision.

I think the Patek would be the safe bet but I am also partial to the fact that the RW Smith is more exclusive and hand made to the nth degree!

Both models easily make it into my grail watch list! But Roger Smith is definitely on top of that list. More specifically: Series 2, white gold, blued hour/minute hands, white gold power reserve hand. A George Daniels will do too

I actually tried on a Daniels anniversary a few days ago and felt that the RW Smith series 2 was more appealing. Not just the price but the Daniels only comes in yellow gold and I am partial to rose (as you are to white) and the lugs of the RW Smith curve... 

.....my choice this time would be PP but in the end one must sing more to you and that one you should get no matter what the rest of us say Cheers D

I will be getting the one after tossing a coin! But seriously speaking, I shall be buying the one that sings more to me and currently it is like comparing Pavarotti and Andrea Bocelli!! Always good to hear what my fellow enthusiasts have to say though.

BUT Pavarotti is really out there so it looks like you have easy choice

Is Pavarotti to you?!

I would want to connect to the watch and the watchmaker so it would be the Roger Smith for me. I would always read up on the history of each manufacturer and have discussions with both before making a decision - this will help you to see which one connect... 

You and I are of the same mindset. I have been reading many articles on both watches and also watching Roger's you tube uploads on how he makes his watches. Most fascinating and quite a one off independent.

Good luck and keep us posted on progress.

Who needs a PC when retired? Just enjoy the time of every day while looking at something really special. The date you can see on your phone if necessary. You won\'t be able to read it anyway as the retired eyes would need a larger font ;-) ;-) ;-)

I am actually only 53 and the results of my recent eye test unfortunately confirmed that my eyesight would be able to appreciate a date for a long time to come! I like your logic though!

Obviously I was teasing (and brilliantly if I may say so)! Seriously now. If you can retire at that age (kudos&respect) i assume that there are no financial consequences if the PP or the R Smith turn out to be monetary worthless the next week. Right? Wron... 

I am not buying either watch as an investment although it would be good if neither depreciated too sharply. I would however like to think I will always keep the watch with me and selling it off whether it is worth ten times more or ten times less would no... 

Best wishes Alkiro

As a great fan of Patek, it is not easy to consider another brand but I consider RW Smith not to be a brand but another culture. I believe both pieces will stay timeless but the Patek is obviously a lot more complex and arguably amazing value for money re... 

Best wishes Alkiro

Such different watches. Smith is so much more rare, with so much more handcraft. Classic British watchmaking. You're unlikely ever to see another on someone else's wrist in ordinary daily life. Patek's handwound PC is very special, IMO, and obviously a mu... 

Great analysis and I do agree that Roger's finishing is not the norm we are accustomed to which is popularised by the Swiss. Perhaps that is part of its quirkiness and beauty. The 5970 may be quite sought after and a rarer watch than the 5270R but as you ... 

For me it would be the R.W. Smith.

Given Brexit and the falling sterling, the Roger Smith model is now much cheaper than previously. The money u save can be use for your next splosh I guess.

I think this will be the final splosh John! I am actually based in the UK so the fall in the value of the £ has little impact on me when it comes to the RW Smith. Also with Roger, one has to leave a 10% deposit and another 40% when the watch is ready to b... 

Although it may sound like a great predicament to be in, due to the high investment cost, I have had quite a few sleepless nights hence this post to see what the experts think and if I have missed anything in my evaluation of both.

get a calendar function (although not perpetual) with a Series 4?

except the Series 4 cost more than the Series 2 and the Patek 5270R combined so if I had that budget, I would immediately buy both instead of deciding between them!

I was wearing mine a few days ago and I was so happy wearing it that I emailed Roger just to tell him how happy I was with the watch. It feels so great on the wrist. The weight of it was perfect. It fits so well. The workmanship is beyond comparison. In t...  

Wow! You have a customised engraved movement! Very nice. You are right! Either way I can't go wrong - I cannot afford to at those prices! Do you find your watch a little thick?

One cannot put a value to the feel good factor certain possessions can give. I just took my car out for its weekly spin and although it was for ten minutes, it was probably the best ten minutes of my week!

FWIW, I wouldn't concern myself with exclusivity or investment potential. Buy the watch that makes you smile the widest when you look at it. The only thing that might sway me towards the PP is (as others have mentioned) the fact that PP is likely to be ar... 

This is my predicament - they both make me smile equally! A point I would like t make which no one has so far is that the RW Smith is likely to require less maintenance in the long run due to the co axial escapement and Roger's ethos to make a robust watc... 

that are needed. Hence no silicium or other new materials for roger. Mitch

I absolutely love his work!!!. If I could afford to have it, I would totally get the Roger W Smith. The beautiful finish, amazing escapement, and the endless customisation options makes his watches breathtaking. If it was my money I would go for the Roger... 

what handmade really means and Roger does this in his own time. When one considers he only has 5 or 6 employees and together, they produce only 10 to 12 watches a year, that sums up the degree of hand assembly,hand finishing, hand everything that goes int... 

No contest ... only one closer is KV ... besides, I have heard nightmares about servicing from PP that I would find even ,ore worrying in long run ... either way ... a quality problem

That to overcome their long servicing, Patek have now opened service centres outside Geneva so apart from the minute repeaters, tourbillons, split second chronographs, all other watches can be serviced a lot quicker than before. But the point you made is ... 

You have two choices. 1. Mechanical watch perfection Or 2. Mechanical art perfection (without arrogance)

But when one is comparing two different types of mechanical perfection, it becomes mind boggling!

The only thing that would have changed my mind was if your second choice was a Daniels. Emil

Your decisiveness is most convincing and appreciated. You are obviously a great fan of the Daniels method! I would love to be able to afford one of the 37 watches that George Daniels made but it would be way outside my reach and to find out is near imposs... 

RWS, but in another livery. best Z'

White gold?!

For me, yes, that would be my choice. As you know, it all depends on your personal preferences, the person you are, the statement you want to make, and possibly other similar watch that you might have. Do you want something you know, something that surpri... 

For me it is always what suits my wrist. I am definitely not a risk taker and can never be falsely accused of being exciting (no input my ex wives required here ). I have never owned a sports watch for example as it just does not suit me (I tried many tim... 

We can certainly agree that it is best to leave you ex wires out of this issue. Here we differ, my friend, I rarely go for a watch that in know full out in advance. That would be too boring, there needs to be a twist, a risk. If not it might equal to a tr... 

a braver man than I am! I like my comfort zone and seldom venture out and when I do try new things I noticed that I normally return to what I am more accustomed to! But that is what makes the world go round - the different people - some like a challenging... 

What everyone else said and what that one person said about making a personal relationship with the master and his team who built your watch.

Seldom will a watch as universally acclaimed as the 5270R take such a beating but I guess that just shows how highly regarded the RW Smith is. I am just wondering how the RW Smith would have fared against a Simplicity. If only Philip Dufour would oblige m... 

The simplicity is a finely finished watch but starts with a non Dufour base movement while Roger\'s piece are ground up Roger. Finishing is different style both superb. Movement is a fascinatingly modified co axial with roger. Truth is having a Roger I no... 

for enlightening me about the Simplicity. I will spend the next three days at Salon QP in London and hopefully arrive at a decision next week You have an amazing collection if your Daniels Anniversary and RW Smith is anything to go by. Collectors like Sam... 

Roger will not be exhibiting this year. Probably too busy making watches. He was there last year to launch his new collection and I guess he does not have to be there this year too as the waiting list for his watches is long enough. My last QP as I shall ... 

George Daniels, i do not say, but I'd rather have a Dufour than a RWS. I rate quite a few Swiss independants over RWS. They can do much much more than time onlies... the full peacock tail. RWS is a follower, a bloody good one for sure...

is a master and arguably the best in movement finishing. Few would argue this point. I think it is personal preference whether one prefers the more popular Swiss finishing or the more sombre English finishing of the movements. Roger produces his watches f... 

As far as finishing in the Swiss way I agree Dufour is a master as is Kari but I would suggest looking at Romain Gauthier as well who has learned well from his mentor. Cheers

I did not know about Roger Smith producing/ having produced a perpetual. i agree that his watches are out of this world. I have been dreaming of his watches for some time. Still I keep coming back to my favourite watchmaker, i guess besides the watches, o... 

Roger produces a few special commissions which include tourbillons and perpetual calendars but cost apart, I believe the waiting list is currently eight years which may be off putting for many of us (unless you are Marie Antoinette! ) His regular collecti... 

Many thanks for your nice message bringing new light onto your predicament. I did not know you were such a keen and faithful collector of Patek Philippe. Sorry about that. That changes everything. It is only now that I can see the dilemma that your are fa... 

I just got back from Day One of QP and I must say that apart from a 36mm Moritz Grossman which was well made (and in quite a different league, there was nothing that made me reconsider the Patek v RW Smith. I did have a nice chat with Romain Gauthier thou... 

and very difficult to advise as the choice is very wide between the Patek and the RWS. In a way that it is very difficult to bring something interesting. What I do when in such a case is that I take more time and think about how I would feel if I had the ... 

Your valuable advice is most appreciated and I had imagined both watches on my wrist and both are watches that I adore the front and the back!! They both suit my wrist equally as well although in a perfect world, I would like the diameter of the RW Smith ... 

Dear all, Thank you very much for viewing this post and for all your invaluable comments. For a year now, I have set my sights on the Patek 5270R as my holy grail, my dream watch. It seemed to have all I wanted in a watch, the dial, the movement, the case... 

I certainly hope so!!

be a total joy as the buttery smoothness of winding it will be a total pleasure. I truly believe that you will enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.

For all the advice and continued encouragement. I look forward to 2020 when I collect my watch. Indeed, the smoothness of the winding mechanism is one of the many indications of a well made watch. One of the many advantages of a manual winding watch which... 

I have not heard back from Caroline so I hope my order will be accepted! Roger is a star and nice chap but I must confess that all the best watchmakers like Kari Voutilainen, Svend Anderson, Romain Gauthier, Marco Lang are humble and very pleasant people.... 

When you receive your watch, please post!!!! (Although that will take a long time but a RW is totally worth the wait!!)

I am glad to say that my order has been accepted and Roger will hopefully start making my watch in mid 2019 for delivery a year later. It will be worth the wait I am sure and it will also give me time to learn how to take decent photos! Best wishes, Sham

It is not just a watch it is Art.

I totally agree! This is my biggest ever purchase apart from my home! It had taken me five long years to arrive at this important decision so it has definitely not been an impulse buy

especially as I have tried on the 5270R twice since making my decision and impartial on lookers have commented that the watch is a little too large for my small wrist!

The Smith, to me, looks too much like the (2014) Breguet Reserve de March. Nothing new to me design wise. While the PP is more subdued than its predecessors, it actually is a fun watch to wear. Down side is having to wind it everyday. Not an easy choice.

The dial of the RW Smith may resemble the Breguet 5277 but if one looks closely, the 3D hands of the RW Smith alone is a sight to behold. The whole concept of a RW Smith is not so much just how the watch looks but rather how it is made entirely by hand ap... 

Enjoy it for many years to come. Roger Smith is the ultimate pinnacle of horology. Congratulations

I had to be absolutely sure and had taken five years to arrive at my decision! Call me fickle but I thought there were other alternatives but the truth is that one cannot do much better than a RW Smith! This I found after years of research, speaking to mo... 

I look forward to receiving the watch in 2020 and will post it here, being Roger's last 38mm case watch

Looking forward to seeing it (in 2020)

I am so fortunate that Roger had one 38mm case remaining in my favourite rose gold because if he could only do it in 40mm (the size of his current collection) or in any other metal, I don't think I would have proceeded with the order. For my wrist, 38mm i... 

...but if the Smith is still in the mix I would get this instead. Or maybe both? : )