The 'vintage' models may do well

Aug 14, 2021,17:09 PM

I've been hearing that 'vintage' models will do well so there is good news to Panerai's apparent direction. The old legendary ones with Rolex and other good movements of course.

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Panerai In-House Movements – A PAM Of Worms

 By: India Whiskey Charlie : August 8th, 2021-19:37
A revealing article about Panerai, other Richemont brands and even Rolex: Panerai In-House Movements – A PAM Of Worms – Vintage Panerai and other iconic timepieces under the loupe at Perezcope Photo: Hodinkee ...  


 By: agyzace : August 8th, 2021-20:36
Very sad

I bought my 177, because it was 6497 movement. Though Panerai gave it an OP designation, I knew what it really was.

 By: John-E-Mac : August 8th, 2021-22:05
Where is it written that the consumer must relinquish their healthy skepticism? There is an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The 318 Brooklyn Bridge was their "shame on you moment." After that episode, one should be aw... 

That's the question

 By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : August 9th, 2021-05:34

That is how the Swiss industry operates to get high profit margin.

 By: iceheller 1945 ✌️ : August 9th, 2021-01:01
And that is why I listed that I will get an open/display case back watch if I get a PAM. ; ) But PAM is a bit greedy charging so much for a watch using such movement… it not even top grade…they can at least change to a gold rotor to charge so much for the... 

Frankly, I have nothing against using such movements.

 By: charsiewfan : August 9th, 2021-04:45
But the misleading part - I hope it is not intentional. If it is, then it is a shame. I thought Panerai were doing some pretty great stuffs over the last few years but all the hard work would have come to naught with yet another scandal.

Alas It Is Intentional By Panerai

 By: enjoythemusic : August 9th, 2021-17:27
Many here know I'm a luxury audio journalist for decades and a mechanical timepiece and clock enthusiast for equally as long. I have longtime journalist friends within the timepiece industry. When Panerai switched 9010 movement feature and decoration in t... 

Thank you for the insights , jmho.

 By: charsiewfan : August 10th, 2021-02:00
In this case, it is a shame. I felt that Panerai was at the early stage of a V-shape recovery with some promising pieces in the recent couple of years. Seems like they have undone a lot of their good work with this kerfuffle.

Nothing new under the sun. Panerai never made in house movements, from its creation in 1936, to these days of ours, passing by March 1997 when Vendome bought Panerai.

 By: amanico : August 9th, 2021-05:32
Valfleurier, ETA, Dubois Depraz, Rolex, Angelus... Here are the names of the movements used by Panerai. It always amused me to see them calling the VF movements in house. I much preferred when they called themselves " Laboratorio de Ideas ", which better ... 

Indeed sad and a shame...but I can understand the "why"

 By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 9th, 2021-06:00
It is inexcusable to "lie" to one's consumers. That is truly upsetting and I am glad to see truthful reporting on this. So, how far does "twisting the truth" go until it becomes a lie? Nowadays, with all the hype over and demand for "in-house" movements; ... 

Agreed, no shame in ETA or Sellita

 By: enjoythemusic : August 9th, 2021-17:30
Bell&Ross, for example, uses such movements and are priced accordingly. Would you say Panerai's current pricing scheme is worthy of the movement, case, etc that makes it a finished product? Is Panerai simply a FASHION BRAND?


 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-06:01
Why would they allow this lovely Italian brand to devolve into what it is today? Such a popular brand and following thrown to the wind. Faking and fooling? Super sad. Nothing really worth admiration since Bonati left and I don’t see this changing anytime ...  

Thank you!

 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-06:50
Agree with you 100% and miss the more classic and pure historic Panerai models. Not moved by the current offerings or leadership.

Same for me, alas.

 By: amanico : August 9th, 2021-06:57


 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-07:16

Same for me as well!

 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : August 9th, 2021-11:27

Hehehe... ;)

 By: amanico : August 11th, 2021-06:22

If only the answer to your question....

 By: sergio : August 9th, 2021-06:32
were that simple. Dr. Bonati performed miracles, in order to bring Panerai to where it is today. But the PAM318 "fiasco" happened under...his...tenure. So, let's keep a even-keeled perspective here

True. I agree.

 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-06:47
What you say is very true, but should have been a one and done mistake, lesson learned. The good Bonati did, helped out weigh this blunder, but can not erase this. My original point, is the current team is....floundering on many fronts. I hope for change ... 


 By: sergio : August 9th, 2021-12:30
you're jesting, I'm sure Lollll There has never been one, as far as watchmaking is concerned. The Panerai soul, the one that was TRULY the essence of Panerai, had to do with different products and support for the Italian Navy, still protected by Military ... 

Panerai evokes....

 By: sergio : August 10th, 2021-05:10
brave, intrepid, fearless men from the Gruppi Gamma of the Italian Navy, that aboard precarious vehicles (S.L.C., Barchini, M.A.S.) went into the unknown with a Panerai strapped on their wrists. This is what rivets a purist. I have to be honest, I don't e... 

Just for clarity; “rings true for me” was an acknowledgement of the statement relative to how I see and how I experienced Panerai collectors.

 By: Jay (Eire) : August 10th, 2021-12:37
It is not how I see Panerai. The history is and was for the most part irrelevant to me. The only element which resonated was it been a tool watch, but the specifics of that were of little interest. For me, twenty years ago when I saw one first I just like... 

I guess one can fall in love....

 By: sergio : August 10th, 2021-14:20
with the same person (I can't say the same woman anymore haha) for different reasons, of course. No harm done Lollllllllllllllllllll


 By: Jay (Eire) : August 10th, 2021-17:16
It’s not that I would ignore the history, but it was never why I bought one and wouldn’t have been something to tip me over the edge or indeed keep me coming back. It’s different for others, and I understand that.

Great Point.

 By: enjoythemusic : August 15th, 2021-09:57
For many, Panerai is just a fashion brand and it appears Richemont is now migrating more towards that with basic usable movements while expanding the fashion styling in various casings. i love my Bell&Ross and they use mainstream known good movements ...  

Wow, great article, that was a great (sad) read thanks for posting.

 By: Fastwong : August 9th, 2021-06:04
Sad but not surprising... Which is also sad. It makes me wonder what Richemont shenanigans are happening with VC and Lange.....

I read Perez's exposee...

 By: sergio : August 9th, 2021-06:08
with great interest although, some 75% of what I read, I knew already. In Corporate lingo, in-house, means made under the corporate roof, regardless of the subsidiary that ACTUALLY manufactures it. On top of that, the practice of buying parts from outside... 

The denial of its DNA

 By: PoyFR : August 9th, 2021-08:13
I remember a conversation with the brand’s CEO In early 2000’s, at the time Panerai had to project their future, the choice was between investing in marketing strategies or invest into a manufacturing plant. I proposed a different path, invest in a labora... 

I agree with you on many levels.....

 By: sergio : August 9th, 2021-09:01
but the gravest "ingenuity" committed by Panerai, is to have been able to alienate a grassroot base, that didn't LOOK INSIDE THE WATCH. A grassroot base that bought a Panerai for the way it made them feel, when strapping one on the wrist, regardless of wh... 

Dear Sergio,

 By: MTR : August 9th, 2021-11:00
I couldn’t agree more! Ciao Thomas

Quite sad to read about this confirmation of my feelings/intuition about this problem

 By: VinnieD : August 9th, 2021-09:00
I believe some other brands were guilty of this malpractice in the 90s (like GP maybe). I hope however, this is largely over in the industry, notably because an army of enthusiasts is ready to analyse every new release. Power is to the customers nowadays,... 

Great comment.

 By: MTR : August 9th, 2021-10:54
That is also something I hope for. The power of the enthusiasts. Best Thomas


 By: MTR : August 9th, 2021-09:29
Personally, I have had very good experiences with ETA movements and I have absolutely no reservations here. Some of my favorite watches (for example my IWC Da Vinci Perpetual Rattrapante) are based on an ETA movement. These movements have been tried and t... 


 By: Treiz1337 : August 9th, 2021-16:49
I was really considering getting back into Panerai. 42mm Submersible or Luminor would have been nice to have in the collection. However, I do not think I would add Panerai after this.

Truly a shame.

 By: jp884 : August 9th, 2021-23:40
I'll keep my old few Panerai's but I don't see myself buying any more new ones specifically because of crap like this.


 By: m2 : August 10th, 2021-01:16
No problem with movements that are not in-house personally, but I do see an issue with misleading people.

As much as people like to cannonize Bonati, he presided over, and was callous about the PAM 318 scam the company pulled on its fans.

 By: DouglasM : August 10th, 2021-23:15
After years of publicizing through its dealers and online that raw 6497 Unitas movements were the easiest way to spot a fake Pam, they decide to do just that, presumably to save a few bucks. When caught, he's pronouncement to the faithful was simply that ... 

If it's all the same for you.....

 By: sergio : August 13th, 2021-08:03
I'll keep my "oldie" with God knows what's inside and my trusted and the always scrumptious....margherita, from my favourite local pizzeria :P :P ...  


 By: amanico : August 14th, 2021-21:17

Shocked 😳

 By: tempus : August 14th, 2021-09:49
To me that’s fraudulent. Sorry for my harsh words. Didn’t believe my eyes. I‘m done with Panerai. Thx to Perezcope for his great recherche. Best Tempus

Welcome to the club.....

 By: sergio : August 14th, 2021-10:33
I've "been done" with Panerai for quite sometime now. Enjoy your new status. Sorry, out of curiosity, how many Panerai di you own?

The 'vintage' models may do well

 By: enjoythemusic : August 14th, 2021-17:09
I've been hearing that 'vintage' models will do well so there is good news to Panerai's apparent direction. The old legendary ones with Rolex and other good movements of course.

The vintage models 1936 to 1993

 By: sergio : August 14th, 2021-21:40
have always had a niche of their own. There has been a bubble for them too, but I didn't turn into a ridiculous 3 rings circus like for the Pre-V and all the T-dialled ones of early Post-V. Nobody ever talks about them in forum because they are an acquire... 

Three Ring Circus

 By: enjoythemusic : August 15th, 2021-10:06
Excellent analogy, and hope the Richemont conglomerate can successfully navigate their Panerai branded fashion watches through all this controversy.

My concern with the present management....

 By: sergio : August 17th, 2021-18:22
it's not so much about "transparency". What they did, is indeed desplicable but the "corporate" world it's an in-bread environment by now, where everything goes so long as there is bigger "fistful of dollars" to be made. I'm more disinchanted with the pro...