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Panerai In-House Movements – A PAM Of Worms

 
 By: India Whiskey Charlie : August 8th, 2021-19:37
A revealing article about Panerai, other Richemont brands and even Rolex:





Photo: Hodinkee


Why doesn't that surprise me?!

 
 By: Poky : August 8th, 2021-20:19

Sad

 
 By: agyzace : August 8th, 2021-20:36
Very sad

Interesting read and thanks for sharing! It is sad and not that surprising…I love the Panerai(s) I own but staying away from the newer models…

 
 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : August 8th, 2021-21:12
They are devaluing the brand with such action I think.  Sad!

I bought my 177, because it was 6497 movement. Though Panerai gave it an OP designation, I knew what it really was.

 
 By: John-E-Mac : August 8th, 2021-22:05
Where is it written that the consumer must relinquish their healthy skepticism? There is an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The 318 Brooklyn Bridge was their "shame on you moment." After that episode, one should be aware.

Now, what it interesting is that Swatch isn't selling movements to their competitors. Did Richemont or Panerai find a box of old ETA movements, then create a new watch to case and move the dead stock? -John

That's the question

 
 By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : August 9th, 2021-05:34

Great article, he really put pressure on the usual watch journalism/advert sites!

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : August 8th, 2021-22:29

That is how the Swiss industry operates to get high profit margin.

 
 By: iceheller : August 9th, 2021-01:01
And that is why I listed that I will get an open/display case back watch if I get a PAM. ; )
But PAM is a bit greedy charging so much for a watch using such movement… it not even top grade…they can at least change to a gold rotor to charge so much for the gold version. ; )

Frankly, I have nothing against using such movements.

 
 By: charsiewfan : August 9th, 2021-04:45
But the misleading part - I hope it is not intentional. If it is, then it is a shame. 

I thought Panerai were doing some pretty great stuffs over the last few years but all the hard work would have come to naught with yet another scandal. 

Alas It Is Intentional By Panerai

 
 By: enjoythemusic : August 9th, 2021-17:27
Many here know I'm a luxury audio journalist for decades and a mechanical timepiece and clock enthusiast for equally as long. I have longtime journalist friends within the timepiece industry. When Panerai switched 9010 movement feature and decoration in the 1118 TRON, they never inform and us about the differences. Thus calling it internally their "9010 Evolution" as I recall, and we learned on our own Panerai chose to purposefully remove the stop second feature and it's been said movement decoration has been changed. When asked about movement details by myself and my friend who is a very well-established timepiece journalist, Panerai refused to, and still refuses to, fully disclose the movement change... yet still calls it on their site a 9010 movement.
The easy solution is for Panerai to do as virtually all high-end timepiece manufacturers do and inform the press and their customers what they are offering as a product. For now, it seems Panerai is not proud of their products, and posts here and other sites are not promising towards the future of the company.
It is now their parent company Richemont who may also find their products get 'blow back' due to the Panerai brand scandals. Richemont needs to address this situation asap for the good of their brands / company reputation.
jmho

Thank you for the insights , jmho.

 
 By: charsiewfan : August 10th, 2021-02:00
In this case, it is a shame.

I felt that Panerai was at the early stage of a V-shape recovery with some promising pieces in the recent couple of years. Seems like they have undone a lot of their good work with this kerfuffle. 

No shame in Eta mouvement but hidden truth is disappointing with fake news.

 
 By: Bill : August 9th, 2021-05:06

Exactly! This is not about non in-house movements, it's about hiding the truth and misleading.

 
 By: India Whiskey Charlie : August 9th, 2021-15:23

Nothing new under the sun. Panerai never made in house movements, from its creation in 1936, to these days of ours, passing by March 1997 when Vendome bought Panerai.

 
 By: amanico : August 9th, 2021-05:32
Valfleurier, ETA, Dubois Depraz, Rolex, Angelus... Here are the names of the movements used by Panerai. It always amused me to see them calling the VF movements in house.
I much preferred when they called themselves " Laboratorio de Ideas ", which better corresponded to the reality.

Indeed sad and a shame...but I can understand the "why"

 
 By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : August 9th, 2021-06:00
It is inexcusable to "lie" to one's consumers. That is truly upsetting and I am glad to see truthful reporting on this. 

So, how far does "twisting the truth" go until it becomes a lie?
Nowadays, with all the hype over and demand for "in-house" movements; along with the status of 
watch makers being recognized as true "haute watch manufacturers", 
the pressure is on the watch makers and Swiss conglomerates to find the limit 
between twisting the truth about "in-house" and lying about it.

How much watch content must be "in-house" to enjoy that label? 100%?
Nowadays, maybe 80% is enough? Or maybe modifying and re-manufacturing movements is enough in the eyes of the watch makers to quality for "in house".

To be honest, and I am probably a minority opinion here, but if my watch continues to run
accurately year after year, I really don't care if it is "in-house" or "ETA".
But I don't want to pay the hefty price difference between a really, completely, totally manufactured "in-house"
movement, and a more mass-produced ETA movement. Paying for what I believe I am getting,
but not getting  what I AM PAYING for is a real issue. 

Maybe if there wasn't such a stigma nowadays with "ETA" vs. the hefty prices for and hype over "in-house",  
and the additional pressure to make a profit at any cost, these kinds of lies, scandals, and half-truths wouldn't arise. 


Absolutely! There is no shame with a ETA movement, which is generally excellent reliable, accurate and resistant.

 
 By: amanico : August 9th, 2021-06:15

Agreed, no shame in ETA or Sellita

 
 By: enjoythemusic : August 9th, 2021-17:30
Bell&Ross, for example, uses such movements and are priced accordingly. Would you say Panerai's current pricing scheme is worthy of the movement, case, etc that makes it a finished product?
Is Panerai simply a FASHION BRAND?

Why?

 
 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-06:01
Why would they allow this lovely Italian brand to devolve into what it is today? Such a popular  brand and following thrown to the wind. Faking and fooling? Super sad.
Nothing really worth admiration since Bonati left and I don’t see this changing anytime soon. My 2 cents, time for a redo with true history and heart...





You have an excellent example of how appealing can be a Panerai, here.

 
 By: amanico : August 9th, 2021-06:14

Thank you!

 
 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-06:50
Agree with you 100% and miss the more classic and pure historic Panerai models. Not moved by the current offerings or leadership.

Same for me, alas.

 
 By: amanico : August 9th, 2021-06:57

🙁

 
 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-07:16

Same for me as well!

 
 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : August 9th, 2021-11:27

Hehehe... ;)

 
 By: amanico : August 11th, 2021-06:22

If only the answer to your question....

 
 By: sergio : August 9th, 2021-06:32
were that simple. Dr. Bonati performed miracles, in order to bring Panerai to where it is today. But the PAM318 "fiasco" happened under...his...tenure. So, let's keep a even-keeled perspective here smile

True. I agree.

 
 By: mtvandi : August 9th, 2021-06:47
What you say is very true, but should have been a one and done mistake, lesson learned. The good Bonati did, helped out weigh this blunder, but can not erase this. My original point, is the current team is....floundering on many fronts. I hope for change with Panerai Soul.

Panerai...soul????????

 
 By: sergio : August 9th, 2021-12:30
you're jesting, I'm sure Lollll There has never been one, as far as watchmaking is concerned. The Panerai soul, the one that was TRULY the essence of Panerai, had to do with different products and support for the Italian Navy, still protected by Military Top Secret. The first Panerai watches (the vintages) were 100% Rolex products. The Pre-V ones, were "assembled" and the Post V ones, are....Swiss. There's your Panerai Soul...lollllllllll For most purists, Panerai is more a state of mind, than an actual object IMO of course. Peace and love

“Panerai is more a state of mind”, that’s a great quote Sergio and it rings very true for me.

 
 By: Jay (Eire) : August 9th, 2021-12:40

Panerai evokes....

 
 By: sergio : August 10th, 2021-05:10
brave, intrepid, fearless men from the Gruppi Gamma of the Italian Navy, that aboard precarious vehicles (S.L.C., Barchini, M.A.S.) went into the unknown with a Panerai strapped on their wrists. This is what rivets a purist. I have to be honest, I don't even know why a NON Italian, should get at all involved in this. How can people that have never heard names like Tesei, Durant de la Penne or Bianchi or Cabrini and too many more to mention....understand what Panerai means for us Italians. You wear a Panerai and you feel "close" to one of those heroes, their adrenaline coursing through YOUR veins. That's the "state of mind" I'm referring to smile

Just for clarity; “rings true for me” was an acknowledgement of the statement relative to how I see and how I experienced Panerai collectors.

 
 By: Jay (Eire) : August 10th, 2021-12:37
It is not how I see Panerai. The history is and was for the most part irrelevant to me. The only element which resonated was it been a tool watch, but the specifics of that were of little interest. For me, twenty years ago when I saw one first I just liked (and still do like) the aesthetic. There is few watches more pleasing to me than a Base Panerai.
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