The return of a Myth: The Mare Nostrum.

Feb 02, 2010,03:20 AM
 



Announced a few years ago, eagerly awaited every year, it finally landed.

Why is it a Myth?

The Mare Nostrum, I mean the original one, was a Prototype conceived for the Italian Deck Officers in 1943, but as the Story says, it was never produced.

So, this watch is a kind of Loch Ness Monster, a phantasm, every Panerai fan never played with it, never saw it in the flesh, except at the Panerai Museum, and badly dreamt about it. ( Pic by Asi )



A 52 mm Beast, housing an Angelus 215 Chrono, with a large smooth bezel and 2 levels dial. ( Pic to be credited to Y.O )



A Myth doesn't have to be produced to be important, and Panerai understood it very well, as in 1993, they decided to pay hommage to 2 watches from the Past: The Luminor and the Mare Nostrum, while we could think that they would prefer the Radiomir to the Mare!





So, from 1993 to 1996, 3 Mare Nostrum were produced, or should I better say 1, which knew 2 evolutions.

It was a SS 42 mm Chrono, water resistant to 5 ATM ( 50 meters ).

The 5218-301/A ( 492 pieces ) housing an ETA 2801-2 with a Dubois Depraz Chrono module:



And the 2 Slytech versions: The 5218-302 ( the same than the 301/A, but with a different wording on the dial as " Slytech " is mentionned ), and the 304 ( same than 302, but with a smooth bezel, which makes it look closer to the 1943 prototype ).

The 302: ( Credit pic: Panerai )



The 304:



Then, Cartier Vendome bough Panerai in March 1997, and reworked the Mare Nostrum ( dial and bezel ) in 3 references: Pam 6 ( Blue dial ), Pam 7 ( White dial ), and Pam 8 Black dial ) for a total of 382 pieces.



The funny thing is that at the beginning, the Mares sold very badly, even if the price was fair ( 1500 Euros, approximatively ), and people began to show some interest when they began to be very difficult to find.

Is this the reason why Panerai waited so long before presenting the new Mare?

Anyway... The New Mare landed, and I'm very happy to have been able to see it in the flesh.

I couldn't resist to bring with me my Mare 5218-301/A, and Patrice did the same with his 304, so we were able to take an historical family shot, the Pre V and the new Réédition, side by side. ( Sorry for the quality of the pics, but we were in big hurry, and didn't have the necessary time to take better photos...A shame! )





Here, we can really say that the Pam 300 is a true Réédition of the 1943 prototype.

The Pre Vendome Mares were a nice and lovely first approach, but they missed the 2 levels dial, and ( at the exception of the 304 ), the smooth bezel.



On this last picture, you can observe that the spirit of the Proto was kept, on the Pre Vendome, tough.

You will also see the big difference in size, as the new Mare is 52 mm big, while the Pre V was 42mm.

Difference in size, difference in thickness, too.

My guess is that the Pam 300 is around 17 mm thick, while the Pre V was around 13/ 14 mm.

The Pam 300 is a gorgeous watch, with an unbelievable strength, presence, and symmetry, stunningly faithful to the prototype, in all its characteristics, or almost.

We find the same typical chrono pushers, crown, profile of the case, bezel, 2 levels dial, hands, and counters.





As you can see, the case is different from a Luminor or a Radiomir, which gives it its own character, a blend of power, elegance, and originality.

There is always this weird straight line between the lugs, which " cuts " the overall curved shape, as to remind that it was made as a toolwatch.

It is a bit brutal, but it is one of the Mare Characteristic.

Big, enormous, but a superb balance, symmetry and purity.





The dial is to die for, indeed.

The 2 levels give it an interesting visual impact, intriguing, captivating.

For the new Mare, Panerai decided to opt for a sapphire case back, which is once again, conform to the original, which I was not sure at all, but one of my friends, Y.O, confirmed it to me.

So, it will allow the future owner of this watch to admire the nice Chrono movement, a manual winding Minerva ( I'm not sure about the Reference of this caliber, as I had contradictory informations about it ) beating at 18 000 vibrations per hour, if I'm not wrong, and pleasantly finished .





BUT, some thoughts:

- Isn't this case back more to be seen as a justification of the price, as the New Mare is expensive ( 25 / 26 000 Euros ) ?

- When Panerai claims to be a Manufacture, I'm always a bit surprised to see that on some watches, they still use outsourced movements, rather than " in house " ones...Even if they are really nice, like this Minerva.

- As the movement is outsourced, why not going on an Angelus 215 Chrono?

- The Mare never was a watch with an important water resistance, but when pre vendome and then vendome were 50 ATM ( 50 meters ) water resistant, the new one is only 30 meters...Curiously.

Conclusion:

The main issue of this watch is its size, very big and thick.

A wrist shot perfectly sums it:



The very good point is that Panerai almost perfectly respected the original Mare Nostrum, and kudos to them for that ( at the exception- the only one- of the refined movement, which is at the opposite of the spirit of this toolwatch ).

The problem is that its important volume makes this watch very difficult to wear, when the Egiziano is impossible to wear.

The 2 other problems are:

- The Limited Edition: 99 pieces is nothing, and most of the true Mare Lovers will end without getting one, even if we can expect, as too often with Panerai, some OORs to come, or, at least an increase of the limited edition to a stronger number.

- The price, which is much too high for a new Mare.

But I must admit that this watch will cause a big dilemma, and that certainly the Mare Lovers will see more pros than cons, and will live with the cons.

To me, for those of us who already own the Cali and/ or the 232, the 127 and / or the 217, or the 203, it will be difficult to not say yes to the Mare, as well as the Egiziano, to complete the Historical Collection.

For those who can't afford it, or for who the size is prohibitive, the Pre V and Pam 6,7 and 8 are still a great alternative!

Best,

Nicolas.

PS: I would like to specially thank the Spanish Cronotempvs Group, and especially Cesar ( who is also one of us ) for having added me during their appointment with Panerai, and Panerai Spain, for his great kindness and his disponibility. This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-02-02 03:21:47 This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2010-02-07 10:07:51


More posts: 5218-301/A5218-302LuminorLuminor 1950Luminor BaseLuminor ChronoLuminor MarinaLuminor SubmersibleMare NostrumNautical CurvimeterPAM000PAM127PAM203PAM215PAM217PAM232PAM233PAM300PAM302PAM382RadiomirRadiomir 1938 SESlytech

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Nice Review Nicolas

 
 By: gazoz : February 2nd, 2010-03:29
the mare looks good but its far too big for me i like the fact they have stuck with the history but the price is a little steep as you said but good pics and review as usual This message has been edited by gazoz on 2010-02-02 03:31:24

I fear it will be too big not only for you, but for almost everybody, Garry.

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-04:47
Sad, because it would have been MY Panerai, this year! Best, Nicolas

Why is Mare,first proto was biger than dive watches from same period?

 
 By: jeronim : February 2nd, 2010-03:54
I mean why watch for deck officers was made biger than for divers? Was it ment to be wear on uniforms while outside? 53 against 47mm? Great review Nicolas,do you knoew size of lugs?26 or biger? Does strap tapered for 26 buckle if lugs are biger? Greeting ... 

No, not the bigger Panerai

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-04:41
As another Panerai was even bigger...The Egiziano GPF 2/56, which had a 60 mm case! Therefore, this watch was not made to dive with, as it was originally only 50 meters water resistant. The rest becomes to the legend, as it was only a proto, so a kind of ... 

but...

 
 By: jeronim : February 2nd, 2010-06:11
Yes I know about big E. but that one came latter after WW2? MN as you wrote came 1943,so was bigger than all sort of 47mm pams. Thanks for welcoming me,benn I lurker for a while Best JJ

At this moment, we only had the 3646

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-06:22
Which was a 47 mm watch. The 6152 seems to be post WW II. As well as the Small Egiziano, and the Egiziano. So, the only WW II Panerai watch was the 3646, and this Mare Nostrum, but this last one was only a proto. Would have it been different in size if in... 

I guess even in old Panerai chenges were possible...

 
 By: jeronim : February 2nd, 2010-06:31
before hiting market,like box of chocolate never know what you gonna get Cheers, JJ

Well, for Old Panerai watches, you had less surprises than

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-06:51
Chocolate boxes.. Best, Nicolas

Perhaps the large diameter...

 
 By: BDLJ : February 2nd, 2010-19:35
...was there to provided the sealing for the 50m rating? Seals were quite primitive in the 40's, so perhaps the extra diameter was used to allow deeper seals along the axis of the chrono pushers (?? of course)

I doubt of this, but I have no other rational explanation to offer...:)

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-21:26
This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-02-02 21:27:12

Completely speculation! :-) [nt]

 
 By: BDLJ : February 2nd, 2010-21:40
No message body

It is so nice

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : February 3rd, 2010-05:36
to finally after all this years I have someone from same country not to say town on PPro Welcome here and glad you "converted" from lurking to posting Best Damian

Great lesson on a slice of Panerai history

 
 By: efftee : February 2nd, 2010-04:02
As usual, insightful and enlightening. I don't believe I have seen a family portrait of the few editions of the Mare Nostrum till now. Thanks, Nico!

The pic of the Mare Pre V and the Pam 300 side by side was THE pic

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-04:45
To take, indeed! And that was the resaon why I was so much in love with the Pre V Mare, with the smooth bezel. 2 undisputable beauties, only one wearable, sadly. Thanks for your nice comments, and Best! Nicolas

I tried to convince myself, Eric...

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-04:51
But too big is too big, sadly... Sometimes, sticking with History has its inconvenients... Hope all is well, my friend. Best, Nicolas

Also a small matter

 
 By: Asimut : February 2nd, 2010-04:46
of sending the new Mare to service. Maybe it will return with an engraved bezel? Asi

ROFLMAO, Asi

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-04:49
For once, I was not the one who said it! Maybe this time, they would engrave the case back? Best, my friend. Nicolas

That IS

 
 By: Jester : February 7th, 2010-17:44
below the belt my friend.... Sorry to have missed you last week!

Thanks Nicolas

 
 By: Reneo : February 2nd, 2010-04:49
Great MN report Reneo

great historical report Nicolas

 
 By: patrickh : February 2nd, 2010-04:57
You should have a good time with Patrice. Thanks for these comparative photos. I hope Panerai will re-introduice MN in more usual size for many of us. Cheers, Patrickh

In 47 mm, it would have been perfect, indeed.

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-05:02
It was great to see Patrice there, for his first SIHH... He's such a great guy, and a great friend, too. Best, Nicolas

WOWOW ...

 
 By: p@trice : February 2nd, 2010-14:10
What good idea to group these 3 panerai isn't ? LOL I am very pleased to have been able to share with you my friend these few moments Thanks for this construtive post Nicolas ... the PAM 300 ? Too big, too expensive, too exclusive ... Amen ! I keep my 304... 

Yep, we had the same idea, just before going to Geneva.

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-21:23
Bringing our Mares for a Comparative shot! Indeed, the 304 is the perfect Mare..A pure Beauty! Cherish it! Best, my dear friend. Nicolas

Great review, thanks! (nt)

 
 By: Martin Wilmsen : February 2nd, 2010-05:46
Martin

Well, Martin, the quality of my pics is far from yours, but hey, we do our best! :)))

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-06:52
This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-02-02 06:53:02

Perfect sum up of this historical piece!

 
 By: BluNotte : February 2nd, 2010-06:07
Just fuels my passion in getting this piece soon! Merci Nicolas! Stephen

My pleasure, Stephen

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-06:56
Well, if you add this Mare, and the Egiziano to your Cali ( PAM 249, the one and only one ... ), so you'll need a Pam 127, and it will be the perfect Panerai Vendome Collection... The Grail is not far...Now! Best, Nicolas

Very well done Nico.

 
 By: MichaelC : February 2nd, 2010-06:42
Panerai has created an exceptional hommage piece here, although I fully agree with your sentiments on the selected movement. Alas, the dial is to die for; if funds permitted I would be in line for this one. Thanks for the thorough report

It is my pain, Michael

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-06:58
To see that this Mare is difficult to wear... I love these Mare so much, that this new Pam 300 made my heart beat faster... A pain, but an historical one... Best, my friend. Nicolas

Very good report Nicolas!

 
 By: Mirian : February 2nd, 2010-07:12
I think we need to make another review once it's released. Yes, it's quite big, and unwearable, but it's truly a historical icon mirroring the Panerai's DNA. I respect Panerai for making another daring release.

Nicely done! and thank you for the history lesson

 
 By: ocwatching : February 2nd, 2010-11:10
in the Mare... its a beautiful piece..but the size is a bit much...

Thank you Nicolas.....

 
 By: MiniCooper : February 2nd, 2010-11:38
for your report.... Very objective.... and I agree with you on many aspects.... although a great design and a beautiful movement.... It is way too big to wear, at least for my wrist... I would not buy this one as I would not be able to wear it and it woul... 

It would be different if you already owned the

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-11:55
127, 249, The Egiziano... The buckle is buckled with this Mare... Agree with you, actually. As for the Pre V service, it is a totally different story! Best, Nicolas

The Egiziano???

 
 By: MiniCooper : February 2nd, 2010-12:58
That is way way to big for me.... 249 is a different story.... Cheers

26K euros!!!???

 
 By: Mostel : February 2nd, 2010-11:58
Nice watch, and I know I am not a follower of Panerai, but come onnnnnn, that's beyond ridiculous! Nice watch though!

Well, the simple 309 / 322 is already priced at 18 000 Euros

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-13:12
It was ... " logical " that the Chrono is priced above. Normal? No. Logical? Yes. Best, Nicolas

excellent summary

 
 By: Hororgasm : February 2nd, 2010-12:00
nice summation, concise and informative. have been thinking of a pre-v for a year now.....

Aaah the Pre V are another thing.

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-13:19
The Pre V are more a kind of Hommage to the Vintage, an original and somehow audacious re interpretation of the Vintage( at a moment when 44 mm was seen as a stupid big size ), while this Mare, as well as the Egiziano are more to be classified among the p... 

Hey, looks good on YOUR wrist!

 
 By: Davo : February 2nd, 2010-12:57
You should get it. Great report, Nicolas. Most informative indeed. Thanks for putting it together.

Well, I have to practice some more sports, and to eat more

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-13:20
But this watch is worth some sacrifices... Thanks for your nice words, Davo. Best, Nicolas

Thank you for a great recap Nicolas! . . .

 
 By: adman7 : February 2nd, 2010-18:47
and always a pleasure to read you here . . .hope all has been well and a great start to 2010

Hey Seaaaan!

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-21:14
Where have you been hiding, my friend? Thanks for your nice words, Sean, and hope we'll finally meet, one day! Very best to you, and yours. Nicolas

Wonderful post Nicolas!!

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : February 2nd, 2010-21:38
Thanks for the history on the Mare Nostrum which I found to be highly educational. The 2-step dial is great and hope Panerai utilizes it more in future dials. Awesome post and great work! Cheers, Anthony

I agree, Anthony, about the 2 step dial

 
 By: amanico : February 2nd, 2010-22:10
That is the only thing which is missing to the Pre V Mare to be THE perfect Mare... Thanks for your kind words, Anthony. Best, Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-02-02 22:12:24

another

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : February 3rd, 2010-02:35
treat from laboratory of Dr. Nicolas Thank you Damian

Hello Nicolas, thx for the report and all the new info....

 
 By: ALEPOS : February 3rd, 2010-06:12
I also think that the case back should be solid! Alepos

I rather think it would have been preferable to have a less pricey

 
 By: amanico : February 3rd, 2010-14:54
Watch, with a more rugged movement... But, besides these observations, this is a terrific watch. Best, and thanks, Alepos! Nicolas

informative

 
 By: aldossari_faisal : February 3rd, 2010-06:04
Thanks a lot for posting such informative post Nicolas , I personally wasn’t aware of how deep the history of this watch , now I truly appreciate it more , but again at the price of 26,000 Euros almost …. I don’t know it is not that am a man who is not wi... 

To play the Devil's advocate ( and I love that ..:) )

 
 By: amanico : February 3rd, 2010-14:56
I'd say that the fair price is the price the future owner of the watch is willing to pay... Best, Nicolas

lol

 
 By: aldossari_faisal : February 3rd, 2010-23:46
loool mate thats devlish. Faisal

What a piece

 
 By: PoyFR : February 3rd, 2010-07:38
I find always interesting to spend time reading about those undesired, rare and splendid Panerai Mare Nostrum. Many thanks for your good posts (I think there is not much to say about this perfectly executed vintage replica, yet your passion for it makes y... 

Hello POY

 
 By: amanico : February 3rd, 2010-22:37
Thanks for your interesting and very valuable input, my friend. I knew that some protos had a see through case back, I didn't know ALL the protos had it, and specially this Mare... But as always, when you don't know ...Dédé knows! As for your wishes to ge... 

Sorry for misleading you

 
 By: PoyFR : February 3rd, 2010-22:46
Not all prototypes were shown with 'an exhibition' case back, but some! What's your say, should the hoped 47mm be with engraved or not engraved bezel?

Not engraved!

 
 By: amanico : February 3rd, 2010-22:49
As I already own the engraved version... Best, Nicolas

Hello POY ...

 
 By: p@trice : February 4th, 2010-03:06
Are there pictures of caseback of this proto ... During the SIHH, Panerai refused to get out of the window Best Patrice

Yes I have a few

 
 By: PoyFR : February 4th, 2010-10:06
But right here I have this one. Somewhere I have other shots, including the movement, I will post later....  

Nicolas, this picture was taken in 2005

 
 By: PoyFR : February 4th, 2010-21:30
This piecture has nothing to do with Panerai watches being exhibited (meaning being shown at Military exhibition in the 60's and 70's) What I also said was that some of their prototypes was shown with an exhibition case back, NOT ALL WATCHES.

Yes, Dédé, but I thought there was only one Mare Proto...

 
 By: amanico : February 4th, 2010-22:06
Or is tghere another Italian Miracle? Best, Nicolas

I knew... you are fishing and want to make me talk! A M.N. medallion for you?

 
 By: PoyFR : February 4th, 2010-22:25
You could ask PANERAI to make you a medallion... ;-) Mr. Trigger ;-) This message has been edited by PoyFR on 2010-02-04 22:26:15...  

Thanks Yves ! [nt]

 
 By: p@trice : February 4th, 2010-12:41
No message body

Fantastic Post!

 
 By: patrick_y : February 3rd, 2010-09:40
Again, a fantastic post and I'm very lucky to see all three watches together in the same post. The history of the Mare Nostrum lives on! And this is definitely one of the definitive Panerai timepieces! Truly a great post; one that evokes the interesting h... 

I had this idea with Patrice

 
 By: amanico : February 3rd, 2010-22:41
It was clear for us that it was the pic to do, the latest side by side with the Pre Vs... Finding a Mare with a smooth bezel was not the easiest thing, tough. I was ( and still am ) excited by this watch as I am frustrated to not be able to wear it... Dam... 

Thing is...It's so damned

 
 By: torromoto : February 3rd, 2010-16:57
nice...you want to make yourself believe you can pull it off..Owning a 301A myself and seeing the groupshot side by side you guys took unfortunately wakes me up from this dream............Really cool..but for now I'll stick with the 301A... .As always...k...  

It made me love even more my 301/A, Guillermo...

 
 By: amanico : February 3rd, 2010-22:44
But is this a surprise, coming from us? This large smooth bezel is to die for, my friend. And the 2 step dial too. Too bad it is too big for my chicken wrist... Best, Nicolas

Another reference revue, Nicolas!!

 
 By: sub : February 4th, 2010-13:13
thanks, especially for the MN group shot side by side. PAM 300 looks good on your wrist ! but i agree with your view of this Fantastichighpriced unwearable watch. Best from quenelle land. Ivan

Pics taken with a Leica, text written with the heart..Nothing else, Ivan.

 
 By: amanico : February 4th, 2010-13:52
I tried to corrupt myself so hard, to get convinced that I would be able to wear it... But I think that I will happily get stuck to my 5218-301/A... Best, my friend. Nicolas

It's certainly a keeper!!!! Thanks for the review

 
 By: jchubb59 : February 4th, 2010-18:57
Hello, With my huge wrists the pam 300, pam 341 and the Pam 339 are all going to be welcome. Really love the design , size and the strap on the Pam 300. The main problem lies with affordability. I think many people would be interested in these watches if ... 

If wearability is not a problem, then

 
 By: amanico : February 5th, 2010-02:45
This Mare is for you! What a watch! It has been a long time that I wasn't that ...moved by a Panerai. Thanks for your input, Jonathan. Best, Nicolas

Great post Nicolas..

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : February 6th, 2010-09:32
...Great post and review and thanksfor the wrap up of information on the historical aspects of this beasts..! Its definately too expensive (for my liking) not having a in-house caliber. But I am sure they will be sold out sooner than later Best Hans

Well, this MN is a piece of Panerai History, Hans

 
 By: amanico : February 7th, 2010-08:27
And I'm sure that Hard Core Panerai Collectors will jump on it... At any price... Best, my friend. Nicolas

But it is at least 7 K too expensive !!

 
 By: Bruno.M1 : February 6th, 2010-10:26
great post Nicolas Only 2 bad things about the watch 1 - 60 mm is stupid, no discussion. Historical correct or not. A watch you can't wear is a missed chance 2 - 19 K euro is theft ! 10-12 K would be expensive but acceptable

52mm, not 60, Bruno.

 
 By: amanico : February 7th, 2010-08:28
Not, 19, but 26 K Euros... As I learnt at School, 2 Bad things=1 one good thing. Best, Nicolas

hugh ?? Guess I was tired

 
 By: Bruno.M1 : February 7th, 2010-11:34
I was talking about the Egiziano ;-)

LOL !

 
 By: amanico : February 7th, 2010-11:42

Really thanks, hermano!

 
 By: E.J. : February 7th, 2010-00:01
Your review is amazing. You know that I´ve always admired these "rare" Mares, and that I think that is a true and awesome Panerai. The first time I was able to admire one in the flesh (thanks to you) I falled inmediately in love. Strong, different, a real... 

Be very careful, Emilio

 
 By: amanico : February 7th, 2010-08:30
This one is really dangerous! But Thanks to God, its price, but most of all, its size will make me stay away from it... Best, Hermano! Nicolas

Wow what a beast !

 
 By: DrStrong : February 7th, 2010-02:28
really an impressive watch ! Thanks for the review ! Cheers Jeff

Thanks, Jeff... Are you in love with it??? [nt]

 
 By: amanico : February 7th, 2010-08:31
No message body

Thanks a lot for your nice comments, Nacho! [nt]

 
 By: amanico : February 7th, 2010-08:32
No message body

Thanks for yet another

 
 By: Jester : February 7th, 2010-18:03
wonderful report. While we're on the topic of pricing, I would say the price is in line? EUR18k for PAM309/322/349 w/ Minerva time only movement so EUR27k doesn't sound far fetched for a piece powered by Minerva chronograph movement? Perhaps it's for prec... 

You're absolutely right, Jester

 
 By: amanico : February 13th, 2010-15:26
The correct price is the price people is willing to pay... So, the price may be correct, indeed. Personnally, I think that the Minerva on the 309 / 322 was too high, but the Reality of the market may show that I'm wrong. I don't know if they sold fast or ... 

Bravo (haven't used that one for awhile)

 
 By: waltnich : February 13th, 2010-15:21
This is the report I have been waiting for. The Mare is important to us all. It is pure DNA, I hung on every word. (kinda) L0L This is not a watch to wear, but to stay complete in the collection. Anything over 47mm 4 sure. and at this point, anything Mare... 

Yes, Walt, if only it would have been released in 47 mm,

 
 By: amanico : February 13th, 2010-15:27
I would have jumped on it...And get it if luck was on my side... Thanks for your nice words, my friend. Best, Nicolas