FabR
[Senior Patek Moderator]
26166
PS: It's an interesting discussion to have and, in fact, I think you have received several excellent replies and suggestions. I'm genuinely happy if they will be helpful for your new project.
However, this thread was conditional on your premise, that you are "not here to plug [your] company."
I'm eliminating the self-promotional links you have included in several replies, which for obvious reasons we do not allow on our forum (see Terms of Conduct).
Thanks for continuing to keep the conversation interesting ;-)
Thanks for continuing to keep the conversation interesting ;-)
FabR
What do you look for in independent brands?
Hi all, I'm new here but am not new to the industry whatsoever. It seems like the market is pushing more and more in celebration of the independent brands. I work in the industry and am currently building my own watch company (very slowly as it is expensi...
Wow!
Those are both incredible pieces. I am a huge fan of DB and hope to see them thrive this year. DB25 Moon Phase Starry Sky is my favorite. I hadn't even heard of the other piece, will have to research. I'm glad you mention the technical appearance. I'm in ...
Artisanal Independent Watchmaking, rather than marketed brands...
A watchmaker, who designs and knows how to make a watch, whether or not they make all parts or farm out certain aspects to their specialists is fine as long as it's disclosed. It's not an easy path to take and requires blood, sweat & tears. An engineering...
Thanks for the reply!
Hi Tim, Great notes. I am not a watchmaker but am fascinated by the skills required to be one. I am sourcing from 3rd parties to bring my vision to life and I'm proud to say I've found the best partners, all in Switzerland. My focus is overall design - di...
You are a brave man!
I have never seen so many independent brands as there are currently in today's market which is great for collectors but not so good for the independents. For me, I am looking at the opportunity cost - what other watch I can buy for the same amount of mone...
Thank you for the response!
Hi Sham, Yes, the independent scene is getting bigger. I respect your opinion in that at times it might be a bit much, but my anchoring point of view on this matter is this - considering how small our watch collecting world is, we need more creatives, mor...
For myself, I'm usually most interested in quality of finishing.
Brands like Kari Voutilainen and Romain Gauthier achieve a level of finish that the big brands generally can't produce.
Finishing
Hi J, Thanks for the reply. I LOVE both of the brands. RG specifically is an inspiration as he is not a watchmaker and he's had good success. A note, a lot of these high-end independent brands have everything figured out EXCEPT marketing and telling their...
Re marketing, yes this was true of some folks for a long time but it seems that worry might have been allayed in the last year as collectors and speculators are finding them.
It doesn’t seem to me that MB&F or Urwerk or RG among others have done anything more in terms of telling thier story in the last 12-18 months, but despite that it would seem all have had a pretty successful period. The shift to indies seems to have captur...
Better (ing) times
Fair enough. I think Max Busser has done a fantastic job in being transparent with who is building what in his creations. The Laines and Kudoke's of the industry need to tell their stories a bit better. but I suppose it's a work in progress... AJB
Yup
I personally love Kudoke and Laine. I know of many collector friends who are jut going nuts over them.. I personally think it's a good thing. If you're someone who wants a bit of independent watchmaking but cannot afford the prices that usually accompany ...
Don't release something that looks like Smith, Gauthier, etc...
...Find your own style and sweat the details, no matter how small.
Preach!
Ain't that the truth! It was really tough to find my own style. When designing, I found there are so many derivative creations and copies that the noise is almost overwhelming. Nonetheless, I am confident I found my DNA. I am particularly proud of the cas...
If you need any advice on the graphics, let me know...
...even the 'big' houses neglect that aspect of their creations...
Good move on your part...
I think one of the most important things is symmetry, proportions (large watches are a no no. Look at resale.), think profile so that it can fit under cuff, various finishing, font is crucial (love the font on GP Laureano), dial that’s not too busy, taper...
Thanks!
Glad you mentioned symmetry as my biggest inspiration is 18th/19th century watchmaking and that was the best period in terms of innovation, design, and efficiency. So, the first release is the simplest watch, in terms of dial, we'll be producing. I did th...
Good point!
Very true. The case alone is going to be an identifying factor. While the first model is the simplest and purest, the following models will establish the dial design language (and I am confident you're going to love it!). Thanks for the response!
PS: It's an interesting discussion to have and, in fact, I think you have received several excellent replies and suggestions. I'm genuinely happy if they will be helpful for your new project.
However, this thread was conditional on your premise, that you are "not here to plug [your] company." I'm eliminating the self-promotional links you have included in several replies, which for obvious reasons we do not allow on our forum (see Terms of Con...
So true!
Great points! Innovation is becoming more and more subjective IMO. I.e. Journe innovates with new movements, Richard Mille with cases that've never existed. I think, as a non-watchmaker, the craftsmanship reflects in movement design, dial design, etc. I'm...
The case idea is nice, it’s been done in similar ways by Ian Schon for several years for his dials and for the body of his pens. Some really interesting results.
I think he also experimented with cases, but I’m not sure if that resulted in an end product.
Thank you for the comment!
Thank you! Wow, the pens are outstanding! I hadn't even heard of him before. I'll do some digging to see what he came up with in terms of case. Cheers!
Great choice and just keep doing what You like imho
The watches need to tell your story . Also customer contact and service, building a good and honest relationship with them . Try to think out of the box sometimes with designs or innovations. Please keep us updated 🤗
Big things have small beginnings!
Anytime I think about the future, my mind goes immediately to the community. In my opinion, these watches all are a common thread in all of us meeting one another, getting to know each other, and celebrating life, collections, accomplishments, etc. That g...
So.......
For me, I love independent brands but my taste are more peculiar. So, when I look at an independent watch, I look for uniqueness. So while I prefer to have a independent watch make everything and thus create an exceptional unique piece of art (like Bovet ...
Agreed!
I personally think the independent niche is going to expand a lot. It's the future of watch collecting considering Gen Y and Z are ADD and need constant, fresh iterations/takes on design. The first watch I'll release is a time only with a gorgeous barleyc...
Agreed and lolz!
As a gen Z, I can testify to that :p Although, I also do think that the purpose of a watch has changed. After the quartz crisis, the need for accurate time keeping lessoned, watches don't need to be super accurate unless in very specfic circumstances. The...
Great response!
Thanks for the elaborate response! This is the type of thing I love to discuss. I agree re: your sentiment on the loss of utility. I think the advent of Richard Mille was in part reason why. Less focus on in-house manufacturing (at least for movements) an...
My expectations vary based on price point.
I’ve bought indies across several price points, starting at $1.5k and moving materially higher, and found satisfaction in all. What’s important to me first and foremost is dial and case design. No amount of finishing or horological genius will compensate....
Design - cases and dials
I also am in the case and dial camp. I use Ming as a particular example that has done well in both those aspects. Same movement manufacturer I'll be working with in customized movements. I also agree in the positioning side. It's about telling a story and...
I don't look for something particular with independant brands...
...it's more that they do certain things that attract to me. They push the boundaries to try new and something unconventional.
Attraction is key!
Thanks for the reply! I personally think we are shifting into a more design focused industry. If you take a look at the innovation that took place in the 18th/19th century and compare it to now, we've stagnated. Sure, we came up with materials to produce ...
Wow
Thanks for sharing these! I personally think Rexhep will lead the front in independent niche once the older generation has retired. He's young, inspired, and talented - that usually leads to success. The AK series are just mind-blowing. Thanks so much!
For me,
Independent watchmaking rhymes with either HH or in-house production. Let’s say you buy a movement, then design a case, hands and dial, what sets that apart from all of the kickstarter microbrands? You’d be financially independent (i.e not part of a group...
Thanks, Tristan!
All good points and I am in agreement. I suppose the underlying theme that can be applied here is that there are levels to this. What constitutes an independent brand? I also think there's a clear distinction between Kickstarter brands and a Ming, for exa...
Independent brands vs independent watchmakers
I imagine there are many who are comfortable and excited by independent brands and the watches they produce but for me personally, it’s the support of independent watchmakers that matters. Not designers, marketers, investors, etc. As watchmaking has sever...
All fair points!
Great response! So, I think we're in agreement in terms of the distinction between watchmaker and assembler. I'll tell you this - I have personally designed the aesthetic of the movements to be used in my watches. The coating, the finsihing, the font type...