alterampartem
4
Post modernism and horology
Kenneth Clark's hypothesis in 'Moments of Vision' was that art turned to post modernism upon being replaced by science as an informational tool, having lost some of its social significance. Perhaps horology has witnessed something similar in recent years with no one really needing wristwatches to tell the time.
I for one do not care much for post modernism in art or in horology, but am reluctant to place the H9 into this category. Perhaps impressionism would be a more apt parallel for it-the reduction or distillation of the concept of time into the beating of a tourbillon. Were I lucky enough to be able to afford one of Haldimann's pieces, I would probably choose the H1 or H2 though.
Thank you Valentin for the fascinating post and for the responses it provoked.
Essay on a Haldimann Pre-Basel World Premiere: the H9 (exclusively on PuristSPro)
My latest essay on an iconic Haldimann Pre-Basel World Premiere: the H9 (exclusively on PuristSPro) Introduction Dear PuristS Some of you may remember my essay on the stunning Haldimann H8 as well as my report on a visit at Beat Haldimann's workshop . Aft...
that is too Zen for me
I think I got the H8 but count me out on this one. Thanks for the report though. Best Andreas
+1
Very a very intreguing creation by Haldimann, but all me old fashioned, I like my watch to tell me what time it is. Ztirual
Andreas, Ztirual, Andy, I know where you're coming from. Let me tell you
that I, too, in the beginning was quite skeptical about the H9. However, my skepticism melted away once I left the narrow confines of the watch category and looked at it from a broader perspective. What is key, is to not think of it in terms of a watch. T...
Thanks for your extra info Valentin...but
on that theme of challenging your idea of time I much prefere the Newson hour glass, even the 10 minute version, as a stunning almost useless item of shear beauty which still does something. I'm afraid for what the H9 is going to cost, and I suspect it is...
Thanks again, Andy. By the way, I am
a great admirer of the Newson hour glass, too. It's an object of beautiful simplicity. Just for the record: I don't own an H9. I wish I would! Beat just invited me to show it to me. Cheers, Valentin
I think that is an important distinction
as a work of art, it is certainly thought-provoking. As a watch it is a failure "by definition". And commercially? After all you were pointing out this was a "Pre-Basel" announcement ... If one wanted to be cynical I assume one could say that Haldimann wi...
Andy, I think it is inevitable that some people
cynically or honestly will perceive the H9 as the H8 with an opaque crystal and nothing more. Yet, what speaks against the assumption of the H9 being just "a bolder version of the same kind of sound financial logic" is that the H9 will never sell in great...
Thanks Valentin...
I can relate to the song of an watch or a clock. Like the Pendule Neuchâteloise in my home that I almost never look at, but hear all the time. I do think this watch needs at least a sounding passing hour, but a grande sonnerie would be even better. Don
Thank you, Don. Your idea of
building in a grande sonnerie is certainly intriguing. Let's see what the future holds for us. Cheers, Valentin
Trying to be open minded, but ultimately ....
silly in my view. I adore Haldimann's earlier timepieces, although it's unlikely I'll ever be fortunate enough to own one. But as much as I admire his work up to immediately prior to the H8, I lost a bit of respect for him when this watch was released. Th...
Darren, thank you for being so outspoken. Your reaction
refers to one side of the H9, the one that wants to provoke. However, as I wrote in my reply to Andreas, Ztirual and Andy , the H9 for me offers more than that. But the potential to polarise is of course inherent to a "watch" like the H9. And I'm sure tha...
I keep an open mind..
and would like to think outside the box but this is mindblowing! A black hole with a tourbillon beating inside with no indication of time passing? This is seriously cool/or not ! I am waiting for someone to philosophically talk us through this H9 creation...
Fernando, you're welcome. And thank you for
sharing your thoughts. I perfectly agree with you in that the H9 is mind-blowing. I think we have to let the concept of the H9 sink in for a while in order to understand it. Just like you, I look forward to reading informed philosophic opinions on the H9....
First of all...
...really wonderful to see a post from you, Valentin! Always informative and thought-provoking to read your thoughts, and I remain grateful for all of the guidance that you have given me on photographic topics. About the watch -- there is something really...
Gary, thanks a lot for
your reply and your compliments! I find your comparison with Schrödinger's cat in a box quite telling. One aspect, though, that makes for an important difference in this analogy is the fact that the H9 can be "observed": hold it to your ear and you k...
It definitely works...
...on the artistic and on the philosophical levels. In that regard there is abundant precedent, and one is either 'attuned' to gentle iconoclastic introspection or one is not. In art - In music - In life - Whether it works on the horological level is a ve...
Thank you so much, pplater, for bringing in
these masterpieces that help us widen our focus and direct the discussion on the "other" side of the H9. The examples you chose are spot on. Cheers, Valentin
Post modernism and horology
Kenneth Clark's hypothesis in 'Moments of Vision' was that art turned to post modernism upon being replaced by science as an informational tool, having lost some of its social significance. Perhaps horology has witnessed something similar in recent years ...
There is a fine line
between so many things extreme... wisdom and foolishness, bravery and stupidity, being full of enlightenment and being full of it. I am not saying any of the negative is you in any way. At the end of the day, to each his own and we respect other's views a...
Thank you, Arthur. One can indeed wonder if the H9 is still a watch or not. This
question, though, is inherent to the concept of the H9. I'm perfectly fine if we call it a sculpture. In the case of the H9 the watch is just the point of departure, but as such this function is key. For without the watch as a starting point, the H9 would...
"..challenge our notion of time."
I guess it does, about as much as a mobile phone with the display turned off. Next up, a watch that beats, but the hands don't move....ummm, I already have a few of those.
Thanks. Obviously, the H9 is not for everyone. Without opinions such as yours, the H9
wouldn't be what it is. Cheers, Valentin
So the creation of...
..contrived 'controversy' and utterly banal 'philosophy' is the reason for its existence? Great.
Well, there's nothing like the real thing... :-) Honestly, you will probably
have to wait till Basel for such a video. Thanks, Valentin
This is satire, right?
Either the post or the watch, if it is real, must be satirical. Or else Beat has been reading the beginning of Hegel's "Science of Logic" in which he elaborates the Doctrine of Being. Cheers, Daniel
Well, Daniel, if you don't believe it you will have to wait
till Baselworld 2012. Cheers, Valentin
Yours was the response, Daniel..
...that was most eagerly anticipated from a personal perspective. Heck, you owe it to us to dissect the philosophical underpinnings of this piece! Let's face it; who is better placed to tell us whether Hegel would have thought the aesthetics ideal, or whe...
Stumpf Stumped?
Perhaps, or he could have just shaken his head and gone back to recording a sam sai.
very post-modern
I very much like the idea. After a night of thinking about it, clearly the H8 is the object I would prefer to own and I think the more successfully executed art piece for the statement it is trying to make. However, the H9 helps add context to the H8 that...
Wise words, Steve
Thank you for sharing your insights. It is precisely this particular path Beat has decided to follow that for me makes his creations so interesting. Obviously, the H9 is the most radical outcome, yet. And, as I wrote in my essay, I see it as the final des...
This was my thought too ...
Thanks Steve, this was my thought too. I wouldn't own the H9 in isolation, but as part of a series of Haldimann pieces - H1, H8, H9 - it is a very powerful statement. And I am still thinking about it hours later, so it has obviously done its job! Andrew
I like what I see ...
but wouldn´t it be nice to have a minute repeater inside? Just a thought! Oliver
Hey Oliver, how are you! It could indeed be
intriguing to build a minute repeater into the H9. Thanks, Valentin
Thanks Valentin, ...
I am fine and hope the same for you. H9 with minute repeater - could be a killler piece for purists Good to see you here and I took some pictures, which could be of interest for you ... stay tuned - TimeOut or Photography Forum in the next days. ... Just ...
Really? What's there to "see"?
As for putting a minute repeater in the H9, it won't work because then the notion of time is not "challenge" and the whole idea fall apart. Seriously I don't like this H9 thing. I call it a thing because is not a watch(time telling instrument). I'll categ...
Thanks, Tyler. That's precisely the point: the H9 does not need to be a watch
For the H9 the watch was just a point of departure, of which it has then freed itself. Whether you call the result a thing or a sculpture is, of course, up to you. Cheers, Valentin
Is the black surface reflective ...
Is the black surface reflective, Valentin, as it seems to be in your wristshot? If so, it got me thinking about the mirror paintings of Michelangelo Pistoletto that reflect life back at you. Pistoletto also emphasised art in everyday life as the H9 does. ...
Andrew, you're absolutely right. Pistoletto's mirror paintings
do share some aspects with the H9. I can confirm that the H9's black surface is reflective, almost sparkling even. It's a sapphire crystal with black vaporised colour on the inside. Thank you for your interesting reply! Valentin
I LOVE IT!
A very unique concept that is unique to Herr Haldimann. Be waiting to see it! Stephen
Stephen, thank you. I'm glad to read this.
Believe me, you won't be disappointed when you see the H9 in the metal. Cheers, Valentin
Ming, hello! You're welcome. Everything is
fine. I hope you too are well. Cheers, Valentin
the kind of "object" which has the watch industry shooting itself in the foot and even
more surprising coming from someone as talented as Haldiman. Thank you for your write up Valentin but I can't understand the philosophy behind this piece. Does it at least have hands?
Thank you, Alex. The H9 doesn't have hands.
Personally, I'm grateful that among the many reactions there are also disapproving ones such as yours. I think that without such critical observations it would be impossible to carve out the essence of the H9 the way we have been doing it in this amazing ...
It is...
...an excellent thread, Valentin: congratulations for beginning the thread with an 'exclusive' for PPro's readers, and also for continuing the momentum with point and counterpoint. There can never be enough of this kind of exchange here; thank you for thi...
Thank you so much, pplater. You're too kind! It will
be my pleasure to post every now and then such contributions. However it won't be as regularly as I wish it were (as work and family take their toll). Thank you again for your great initial reply! Cheers, Valentin
Personally, I have to draw the line
...if and when the only intent is to provoke. I am reminded to some extent of the plague that was inflicted on my beloved San Francisco Opera several seasons ago with the arrival from Stuttgart of a new General Director whose goal was to "provoke and educ...
I'm at one with you, Gary.
The concept of "challenging" the audience is not a new one and I agree that it is an ambivalent mindset, one which is prone to abuse and overkill. I honestly feel that Beat is far from such a way of thinking. I even go as far as to think that Beat doesn't...
Very interesting
Hi Valentin, Very interesting essay. I'm intrigued by the H9 and have to be honest that if given the choice I would rather have the H1 because this H9 is too abstract for my simple mind. Thanks for this exclusive and for posting your thoughts on the Haldi...
Thank you, Ed. I hope you
and your loved ones are well. The H9 is indeed a very abstract project, dancing on the borderline between watch and sculpture. That's what made it so intriguing for me to write this essay. Thanks, Valentin
It may seem silly to say...
But I really need to see it in person (and hear it). I think I might dig it though. Thanks! _john
You're absolutely right, John. The H9 is
an object that needs to be experienced in real life. No picture and no description can do justice to its captivating essence. Hopefully you will have time to see the H9 soon! Thanks, Valentin
Well, VB, you're the only guy i know who can pull off and manage a post on ...
what is essentially a polarizing piece. very calm and cool and collected, mr. blank. anyway, i don't think this watch is out to make a statement per se. it almost strikes me as a personal piece that one might wear in times of deep introspection... like ho...
Echi, hello! How are you? Thank you very much for
your kind words. I think it is very appropriate of you to mention the H9 in the context of introspection. Somehow, you are on a similar line of thought than Andy with his Pistoletto post . Although it is of course interesting to know what led Beat to crea...
OK, the Schrödinger's cat comment almost had me sold…
…but, no, this watch is just selling creativity for creativity’s sake. Maybe as a unique piece, destined for a display at the MoMA, I could accept it. But as a watch? Sorry, no. I think this perfectly exemplifies just how detached from horology some withi...
Thanks, Emil. This is precisely the point. The H9
is not a watch. It is more than a watch - or less, it depends on your perspective. As I wrote in my reply to Tyler (as well as in my essay) in the case of the H9 the watch was just a point of departure, of which it has then freed itself. Cheers, Valentin
I LOVE IT TOO!
Ok, I don't love it--because I have no idea what it is. But it struck me that if everyone were to say "I love it!" Beat would very likely feel he had failed. It must be nice to 'masturbate' at such a high level! (I don't mean to offend, but... please take...
Mostel, I like this quotation!
Seriously, your reply made me think of the I Am Rich app. For those of you who haven't ever heard of it, I Am Rich was an app available for the iPhone that according to its author is "a work of art with no hidden function at all". The only purpose was thu...
The way of Zen......
Before I had studied Zen for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and waters as waters. When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and waters are not waters. But now that I have go...
Nice, CL, but
this sort of mysticism is the opposite of materialism, in my view. And as much as we love watches, they are 'just' material things. If Beat were offering some sort of free teaching to us, or a free inspiration of some kind... it would be a point well take...
I think this is quite a brilliant piece....
if it is regarded and presented as an art piece. The tourbillon hidden in it almost a representation of life, of us. The black crystal reflects the world around us. It tells us how irrelevant time is if we do not see our own existence. We all have a varie...
Beautiful thoughts, CL
Thank you. I think Beat will be very flattered to read your reply. Cheers, Valentin
Very provoking, Valentin...........
I don't consider myself to be an expert in the field of horology, but with all due respect, I cannot appreciate Haldimann's work. Aesthetically, the watches are intriguing, provoking at some point and at other times, frustrating. I respect his work, but c...
True, Mr. Gatsby, the tourbillon of the H8 made me
realise how ephemeral and insignificant our life is compared to time. Now, the H9 on the other hand has helped me (re)direct my attention to the relative time in contrast to the linear time. The latter is measured by your regular watch. The former is some...
Andrew, confusion is a precious state of mind
as it is – in my humble view – the unavoidable first step to a deeper understanding of whatever problem you choose to ponder. The more we accept confusion as a helpful, if challenging state of mind, the more will we be able to develop a free m...
Perplexed, I'd like to see this black hole in person...
Concept is wonderfully different; a true artist's concept. But how can one appreciate the movement if it is not to be seen? How can one appreciate the time, if it cannot be read. This is truly an art piece; for those who are content simply knowing that th...
Thank you, Patrick. Seeing the H9 in person is indeed the
only way of grasping the genius behind it. What may seem like a sophisticated joke to some of us suddenly becomes really meaningful once you hold it in your hands, hear it and experience it in three dimensions. I hope you will soon find an opportunity to ...
Well, it saves service costs, I assume ....
Well, my wife once called me crazy when I spent gadzillions of minutes detailing areas on my ship and plane models that would be hidden forever, once the hull was glued closed. I used to reply "But I KNOW it's there, honey!" Next time, when I came home fr...
Here's a quote for you, Marcus, or for your wife actually
Steve Jobs (as quoted by Walter Isaacson, Steve Jobs, 2011 New York): When you're a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you're not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You'll kn...
I think H9 has been very successful
Just look at or measure the length of the posts/replies. I don't know whether I will like it but at least I will ask: "What is that?" Regards Ling