penfriend
3265
you are getting some strategic points wrong here
when Montblanc purchased Villeret the initial offerings (Villeret 1858 line, since 2015 discontinued) was aimed at the existing customer base in the pen business. at that time already those artisan editions sold on average around 25.000 Euro each with up to 500.000 Euro per pen. With about 300-400 made and sold per year. This client base was the primary target to sell the highly executed Cabbidou watches ranging from about 40-280 k Euro. And it worked, because there is a big trust in the Montblanc brand with this client base.
When Jerome Lambert took over in 2013/14 they started to focus on the mass market (5-15 kEuro) and yes, this could have been done better because these watches usually were not of interest for the artisan pen community.
I am aware that this community focuses on watches and that the fountain pen market is not well known. But be assured that nowadays also the pens with MSRP at 1.0 million EUR or up to 2.5 million sell quickly and there is even competition for them between collectors. And we talk about 5-10 pens a year only from Montblanc in this category. The average artisan pen nowadays sells at about 45 kEuro - usually instantly sold out (last one the Ferrari Montblanc pen).
So producing Montblanc branded Villeret high end pieces was a very smart strategy to serve this group...
Are You Prejudiced Against A Brand? A look into Bulgari and Gerald Genta, brands of the future.
Come on... Admit it. We are all prejudiced. We all have our tendencies, our prejudices, and our proclivities. And we all like Rolex. It was made for the masses. But, there's a famous saying, "never say never" and I often hear young watch collectors and ev...
As someone who has done branding...
...for tech companies, I just can't understand why they tied the watch to pens. It makes no sense. My other issue with them is that most of the watches are too enormous for my 7.25" wrist to wear.
Montblanc at the time was trying to become a lifestyle brand...
Montblanc really made excellent pens. And they were convinced if they made excellent watches, that men would buy them. They didn't really "tie the watch to pens" but it does look like they did so inadvertently. Alas, while Montblanc made excellent watches...
One more thing that ties into branding...
...their website is Montblanc, and from there you can choose pens, watches, bags, headphones, perfume, etc. If they want to be taken seriously, they should have designed a 'watches only' site, not something that looks like 'Sharper Image' or Macy's...alon...
Couldn't the same be said for the Cartier website?
I didn't see Cartier as a serious watch brand for a long time, but that has been corrected.
I haven't been to the Cartier site...
...as they are not my kind of watch. But I can't take a watch brand too seriously if they also dabble in fragrance and necklaces. Maybe that's just me. Yes, I know Patek has cuff links, etc., but those are clearly minor items in the inventory.
Agreed. They even recently had Geneva Seal timepieces!
There was a lady who was very serious about timepieces who ran the timepiece division at Cartier. I do believe that she has recently departed unfortunately and her efforts don't seem to be entirely continued.
Carole Forestier Kasapi was responsible for almost any complication that Cartier has, in the collection of movements.
She and her team were responsible for many amazing calibers. Currently the brand is focussing on their historic time-only models, but I am sure that we will see complications again, in the near future. The collection of Manufacture calibers is huge and th...
Yes. I will miss her work, as her tenure was short.
She really tried to make Cartier into a serious watchmaking brand. It's just too bad the company decided to pivot.
Very diverse
They have a kind of cuteness. From time to time i browse which watches they have.
you are getting some strategic points wrong here
when Montblanc purchased Villeret the initial offerings (Villeret 1858 line, since 2015 discontinued) was aimed at the existing customer base in the pen business. at that time already those artisan editions sold on average around 25.000 Euro each with up ...
My crazy rules
I hold on my crazy rules tight. For Montblanc i skip the rules. Simply, they are real and they took Minerva under their save wings. I see them as a kind of Girard Perregaux.
Thank you for that insight!
As a Montblanc fountain pen collector since my teenager years, I'm aware of the strategy you mentioned. I can also say, we have different viewpoints. For instance, in USA, the strategy you mentioned was not utilized. But in Europe and Asia, the strategy y...
I don't want to judge whether it worked or not
just give the reasoning, why they branded them in 2007/8 Montblanc-Villeret instead of purely Villeret. HAGWE
Yes! Thank you for the reasoning!
Definitely appreciate the deep knowledge of everyone here on WatchProSite! That's why we are a great place to trade information, because inaccuracies are corrected by the community, details are richly inferred, and it makes the whole experience that much ...
Octo is awesome but
Mine had rotor issues. Apparently quite common :\ The geneva stripes were well done in particular. Too bad...had to send it back ...
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Yeah I bought it used. Luckily seller was AWESOME and recognized he didnt test it properly before sending out. Him and I both had a ton of transaction history etc so he was great/easy to deal with. Just disappointing. When I posted about it on another for...
Love The Octo FS!
It's been about 16 months and love it more today due to having more time to appreciate what it represents. Never had a problem, very good accuracy, and I use it off-road bicycling, the beach/ocean, up/down dress style, etc. Not babied at all. The bracelet...
Octo Finissimo is a leader
I visited NYC in 2017 to see the Patek Exhibition. While in the city I stopped off at Bulgari to leave two older Genta pieces for service. Afterwards I was shown the Finissimo - I think they had only gotten 1 watch at that point. It was a real eye opener ...
Interesting! You definitely beat to the tune of your own drum!
The Octo Finissimo is definitely a cool piece and you're definitely one of the early ones to have seen one back in 2017!
You know where I stand on this.
The Octo is the most exciting new mass market watch of the last 10, 20 years even. It is the only watch in the last decade which when I first saw the press pictures I said I have to buy one (if it fit my wrist, and once I found the right one for me). Mont...
Agreed, agreed, and agreed!
"The Octo is the most exciting new mass market watch of the last 10, 20 years..." So true, but it may take a while for people to recognize that. The Royal Oak and the Nautilus were game changers but not an immediate success back when they were launched. "...
I agree! However, I am still waiting for mine to be returned!
I also had rotor issues (as well as issues with the seconds hand). I returned it at the end of September (having purchased it in the middle of September), and now Bvlgari is saying end of February on the repairs. I'll be honest, it is pretty disheartening...
Ugh! Gut wrenching!
I hope that you'll be reunited soon. For problems, they really ought to do something special for you. Afterall, you didn't sign up for problems!
At the end of the day, I am optimistic that the problems will be fixed
Which for me, is the primary consideration! Lord knows I have enough watches to keep me occupied in the interim!
That's the spirit! Still, you bought this watch for fun and enjoyment, not for trouble and displeasure!
I don't want any trouble from the things I buy. Yes, cars are mechanical and we expect trouble from them as they get older. Watches too, but I'm far less tolerant on the watches.
I see you're an early adopter! Of new tech too!
I'm a Model 3 owner, nice Model S you've got there!
I would happily get the octo finissimo blue dial like your picture above...
If they make it smaller, perhaps 36-38 mm. As it is now, the 40 mm very square case and very wide bracelet, it does not looks nice on my wrist. Eventhough the comfort is supreme (yes i have tried it on my wrist). Now i am interested in this : 41 mm with v...
My thoughts?
They had me at Maldives! Plus the design looks awesome! It's not quite as thin as the Octo Finissimo models, but it's definitely very cool. I definitely like this all black version over the other versions!
Thanks, Patrick. Fully agreed with you.
I dont have any prejudice with any brand. As long as they make high quality watch, with reliable movement to keep away any fuss, and the design and function fits me, i will buy it if i can. Or i just admire them from afar and enjoy the magnificent creativ...
I do hope you try it out at your closest Bulgari boutique!
Hopefully you like the way it looks and feels on your wrist!
Thank you for this enjoyable read. I learnt a few things, and I'm better for it. A few general thoughts below (if I have the energy I might follow up with more specific points citing your examples).
1. Yes I have my preferences. I'm okay with that. 2. Preferences aren't prejudices. One can know one's likes and dislikes without 'hating' on things outside of one's tastes. I don't have to set up binary black-and-white contrasts to emphasise what I like,...
You are absolutely correct!
1. Yes! 2. Yes, you can definitely have preferences! You can even have prejudices, and that's okay, as long as you know you're prejudiced! 3. Correct. Allow yourself to be surprised, and give credit when it's due. 4. Absolutely. There are whole teams of m...
Agree and don’t agree
The octo finissimo is indeed a perfect example to agree I wouldn’t have considered Bvlgari in the past but the OF was so nice I bought it and I do love it Now, where I don’t agree…. I’m pretty sure there is on brand I’ll NEVER buy…. And that’s Richard Mil...
Very fair!
I'm glad you like your Octo Finissimo! We certainly have a lot of OF owners here who like their watch! Richard Mille is definitely not for everyone!
I can not wear any Seiko
I had one, so enough i know to never ever wear a Seiko. Reliable, but broke, bad strap, i completely did not understand that watch.
Ahh. I don't own a Seiko.
I don't like the Seiko design language very much. Few Seikos look good on my wrist. But I still take a look every now and then to see if there is one I will like.
I don’t understand why always a Seiko automatic must be a first automatic
And then they are over the moon about the inexpensive price. Maybe i am a bit different as watch collector. I opened a Seiko i owned. By surprise i discovered it contains not so great movement as an Armani watch i had. So i think Seiko got to much credits...
Bulgari did watches for many decades actually just that they are more famous for jewellery.
And what caught my eyes is their jewellery. Their watch is nice but not sure from the price perspective. Hoping to get some of their jewellery soon. : )
The jewelry is exquisite and playful. They have some great pieces that are somewhat playful yet serious pieces of jewelry...
It's a "happy brand" that's quite playful at the same time!
Terrific post, Patrick.
You’ve started a great conversation, on several points. I’m having fun reading everyone’s reaction and opinions. As someone up there said: Bulgari has been in the watch business for a long time. Buying Genta just helped refine their already unique aesthet...
Thank you!
Yes. Genta and Bulgari are a great combination. Truly a great combination! Now, with the super complications like tourbillons and minute repeaters, I'm really impressed with the watchmaking skills at Bulgari/Genta.
my fear
Whenever I read posts like this I get scared...I want an Octo badly and don't want the prices to go up.
Sorry. Better go get one soon!
Better go get one soon before the price increases! Which Octo has caught your eye?
Middle Eastern, Chinese, Japanese, Roan or Hebrew numerals
are all fine to me, it is the dial and the way that is done, that is important for me. I this case I loved the fat painted dark green numerals. GEO
Very cool!
My favorite style are indices or Roman numerals. I wished they'd make an Octo Finissimo with Romans!
Agreed! The Tadao Ando one is also very nice.
I like that the Ando one has no visible branding and the grey matte look really works well with Ando's concrete structures.