It was some inside agent's plan...

May 20, 2023,03:58 AM
 

I don't know the full story about the Aston Martin Cygnet, but let me hypothesize... To me, it looks like the idea of a management consulting group. Probably a McKinsey or Gallup or Bain. Aston Martin probably said that to the consulting team that here are our objectives; sell more cars, get huge profits per car, gain a new type of customer, gain female customers, and gain younger customers. McKinsey's Consultants probably put this in their great "Great Automatic Grammatizator" (it's a Roald Dahl short story) and the machine probably spat out this solution. The McKinsey team probably pitched this with their full hearts and the board and/or management team was probably swayed and eventually green lit the project.
Now, Max Busser knows his customers pretty well. He always wanted to create a lower end brand, one that was more mass market. He even had a name for it, which he scrapped, and then chose M.A.D. as the name. He also knew that the M.A.D. watches had to be very different than the MB&F products, a clear separation. Knowing Max since 2007/8/9 (can't claim to know him extremely well, but I've known him over a long period of time) he's always been a fairly consistent fella; and I think he's one of the few who has the correct overall vision, has the creativity, has the charm that makes me like HIM very much, AND the business acumen to keep it all afloat. I'd say he definitely worked hard to keep the two brands very separate. I also find that MB&F is only known by watch people, people whom would know the difference.
Nevertheless, despite all of the above, I can see where you're coming from. Although personally, I'm not too worried, as I don't think anyone with a M.A.D. watch can successfully fool anyone that they're wearing an MB&F product.
You're actually the first person to really bring it up, as I never really thought of it - as I saw the gap between M.A.D. watches and MB&F watches to be substantial. But, after reading your post, I realized you're right, there will be a segment of the population who will just look at it as a Max Busser creation and attribute it to MB&F. It's probably a small segment, but still... So all I can say is, you're not wrong. And I thought of the Aston Martin Cygnet tiny car when you mentioned Aston Martin. And as someone who just bought the Omega Moonwatch, I thought it'd be threatened by the MoonSwatch. After seeing the MoonSwatch in person - I realized there was no threat nor confusion. Have you seen the M.A.D. watches? I guess to someone who doesn't really know movement quality, they'd see M.A.D. watch as a high quality product and it's really not bad at all. But seeing and handling an MB&F is just a whole different level. There's just something special about the MB&F that just isn't there with the M.A.D. watch. The weight, the way it feels, the corners on the MB&F just feel so smooth, and the corners on the M.A.D. feel a little more industrial. Toyota makes really small tiny cars, and they also make a very expensive grand Lexus car or if you live in Japan, the Toyota Century - the Japanese Rolls Royce equivalent. That's even more confusing since they all are branded Toyota. Although the Century has a phoenix logo instead of the typical circular Toyota logo.
I'm pretty sure that this is not a brand misstep. But then again, I'm just one opinion, and your opinion is very valid here. You bring up a valid argument. But personally, I don't think there's anything to worry about. Those who know MB&F, definitely know the M.A.D. isn't anywhere close.


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A disastrous branding mistake or pure genius?

 
 By: NickO : May 19th, 2023-23:41
This is the M.A.D. 1 watch from the brilliantly creative mind of Max Busser. It’s a relatively inexpensive piece launched by Max as a way of saying thank you to everyone who has contributed to his success over the years. What it is not, and I believe was ...  

Ah, em... [cough] Moonswatch (although 1-2 orders of $ magnitude less).

 
 By: vitalsigns : May 20th, 2023-00:35
I totally get and agree with your point. Marquee watch makers and brands are selling luxury and exclusivity. They should tread very lightly when taking on projects that could do damage to either of those selling points, whether directly or indirectly. I c... 

This second brand Max set up is called M.A.D. EDITIONS

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-00:47
This is, logically, M.A.D. 1., the first piece from that brand. I bet over time we see more. It certainly doesn’t help that websites such as Chrono24 never set that up as a separate brand. So anyone selling this piece lists it as an MB&F. Sometimes, brand... 

Ummm... What? Your rant is full of self-contradiction.

 
 By: BigFatPauli : May 20th, 2023-00:46
You literally say: "That’s a separate brand created by Max with pieces typically six figures and up. And yet I constantly see this watch being referred to as an MB&F." So MB&F itself has separated the brands. In fact, on several occasions during interview... 

I appreciate your passion!

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-01:09
My “rant” as you say, was definitely not intended to blame anyone for anything. Yes, they are two separate brands that are often associated together. My post was simply to provoke thought on what are the consequences, if any, of that? And if I missed the ... 

NickO, it was very provoking! And you brought up a good point.

 
 By: patrick_y : May 20th, 2023-03:06
And I can totally see where you're coming from. Yes, MB&F is definitely at that "Aston Martin" level in the watch world. A solid analogy. And yes, I can understand Aston Martin owners being upset. All I can say is, if that $10K Aston Martin has a grow... 

Patrick, you’re always the man 😀

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-03:21
What’s the deal with the Cygnet? I’ll have to go do some research, but that is so far off the ranch. What was Aston Martin thinking, and did it have any long-term affects on the Aston Martin brand? Just, at first glance, that was crazy…..

It was some inside agent's plan...

 
 By: patrick_y : May 20th, 2023-03:58
I don't know the full story about the Aston Martin Cygnet, but let me hypothesize... To me, it looks like the idea of a management consulting group. Probably a McKinsey or Gallup or Bain. Aston Martin probably said that to the consulting team that here ar... 

It's difficult to compare ...

 
 By: bimbeano : May 20th, 2023-11:06
... watches to cars, even when it comes to branding. I remember seeing the Aston Martin IQ / Toyota Cygnet at the dealer ... the Aston dealer and the difference between these two cars was heaven & Earth ... I suppose this should be the same between the MA... 

I had to look up conflated, that’s a good word, thank you

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-03:40
I can see how my position could be interpreted as elitist, heck I said that myself. But I’m just being honest and saying if part of the value proposition is exclusivity, you’d like that to be defended. As example - I live in Vegas, and a developer put up ... 

These are 2 different brands and products…

 
 By: S F : May 20th, 2023-00:51
To me it is quite clear MB&F makes that clear distinction. It is how the “market”, “collectors” keep on associating the two. And it is not wrong the MAD is the brainchild of Max. The anticipation was expected, be it from MB&F collectors or not - it is... 

I agree with you, 100%…

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-01:01
I think Max clearly intended to keep the two brands separate. But the “market”, as you say, keeps on associating the two. My post was simply meant to provoke thought on what are the consequences, if any, of that? Thanks for your considered reply.

The market does what the market does…

 
 By: j.jota : May 20th, 2023-01:18
Capitalism and exclusivity are strange bedfellows, one often betraying the other

It's an interesting subject that you evoked

 
 By: Moka-Tiger (Ron) : May 20th, 2023-01:36
I think in the end, pricing and further market penetration of M.A.D. as brand, compared to MF&F pieces, will be clarified over time in the market place as both become better known. The disctinction will become clearer when selling prices show that there i... 

A cheap Aston Martin, you say?

 
 By: Esharp : May 20th, 2023-02:21
The Cygnet would like a word… ...  

These turned out to be so uncool that I kind of want one.

 
 By: Tim_M : May 20th, 2023-02:55
In Zurich, crazy cars come at you like an onslaught. But I saw a Cygnet parked amid the sea of Ferraris and AMG'd G-Class 4x4s, and I lost my mind. It felt like spotting a '57 Chevy in North Korea. The interior work - its only real link to Aston - was imp... 

LOL, You should check out The MINI COOPER GOODWOOD Special Edition which is partially made in the Rolls-Royce factory.

 
 By: patrick_y : May 20th, 2023-03:02
Painted by hand at the Rolls-Royce factory, no orange peel. Interior is also made from the same leather. It's the perfect city car for the urban dweller when you can't go out in your Rolls Royce - maybe your "mediocre neighborhood" car.

I strongly doubt there's any risk for MB&F

 
 By: Tim_M : May 20th, 2023-02:39
Just like I doubt anybody's ever cancelled his Asaoka Pura Tourbillon because of Kurono Tokyo, and I doubt anybody's ever bailed on a waitlisted Omega Ed White Cal. 321 because he was offended by the Moonswatch. And I've been doing this for years, but I d... 

I’m not suggesting anyone needs a crisis management team

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-03:49
I just don’t know why you’d do it? Why would a high-end luxury marque bring out much lower priced offerings? What is that achieving other than devaluing the mystique and exclusivity of the brand? I don’t know why Aston Martin built the Cygnet. They must h... 

Am the type to feel it is simply 'the designer' versus the 'brand'.

 
 By: enjoythemusic : May 20th, 2023-02:47
Akin to fashion, some designers / stylists have ideas for both entry, mid, and top-level manufacturers. It's all good PS: As much as it pains me to say this, Max may want to consider outsourcing for a strap stylist imho.

Have you heard of the Aston Martin Cygnet?

 
 By: patrick_y : May 20th, 2023-02:59
It's a tiny diminutive city car with a 1.3 liter engine, based off a minuscule Toyota hatchback that was rebadged as an Aston Martin! That aside. Yes, the M.A.D. watch is sometimes mistakenly referred to as an MB&F product. But this is a mistake. I hope I... 

I think the MAD watches are really cool and a wonderful introduction to Max’s crazy world

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-04:02
As I replied above, and maybe I’m being overly-sensitive, I’m not a huge fan of the large number for sale on watch websites listed as MB&Fs. It’s also a piece I think a lot of raffle-winners looked to flip, so that’s a separate question of whether that’s ... 

Yes, there are unfortunately a lot of raffle winners who flipped.

 
 By: patrick_y : May 20th, 2023-15:51
Some non raffle winners too. I wouldn't flip mine, been offered twice. Besides, the MB&F team knows me, so that'd be a tough conversation.

Managing perceptions of a new brand from an established maker is a challenge.

 
 By: Steve E : May 20th, 2023-05:52
Web searches for M.A,D, 1 seem to land one on the MB&F site. They could try for better separation of the brands. I was paying some attention to the recent raffle and I never thought at the time about M.A.D. as anything other than MB&F. The new bra... 

You raise some good points, Steve

 
 By: NickO : May 20th, 2023-06:39
And I don’t think it devalues my pieces, I just don’t like the scope for confusion. But I have to say that with a smile, because I’m guilty the other way. I have a white ceramic Hublot Spirit of Big Bang. I’ve honestly been stopped three or four times and... 

Looking upwards from down under on the money ladder :-) this is clearly an ; &friends watch , to me and not an MB&F that i only know from pictures. So no worries !

 
 By: Ron_W : May 20th, 2023-07:22
Brandwise i think it is helpfull for making a larger audience aware of MB&F, as with the ( early ) cheap Ming watches and also the Bunkyo Kurono ( Asaoka ) watches.

It is no different then the "flat 4" or "spider dial"....

 
 By: MilDiver : May 21st, 2023-16:54
by that I mean, it is marketing hype by dealers and wannabe's, Reminds me of big running events of 5, 10, 21 and 42.2 k run in which those that run 5 or 10 a proudly saying "I run the marathon" ...

No, it was done perfectly

 
 By: m2 : May 21st, 2023-18:42
I am a hardcore turnaround CEO that has done exclusively consumer deals across a variety of verticals, and this was pretty textbook. Well executed. Most of the cos I've run are sub $100m in rev, which is what I think MB&F is. Seems like they do ~$15m ...