A reply

Jan 06, 2008,04:31 AM
 

But I found the facts on which you obviously based this opinion a bit puzzling. As John pointed out the reference to J. Goodall's  ....... well as in Neuchatel....so there must be some misunderstanding at least on one side. So, if there isn't this striking success, ......you get my point? smile

I get your point and I agree.

I'm disagreeing here. I'm not sure on what you base this statement (advertising perhaps? would be great to see some! ) but I see it more differentiated.... COSC movements aren't ranked, because there's no competiton - "normal" obseratory certificated watches weren't ranked as well. The bulletins had different categories - but rankings were only given to those which were taking part at the competitions.

Correct, I meant that the results were used for marketing, the observatory watches themselves were not sold until '67 as you wrote, so few were made anyway. My point was that in the eyes of the average consumer, buying a watch that has the same movement as one that has won an observatory contest is similar to buying a COSC certified watch. Perhaps I am underestimating the average consumer but that is my point.

The escapement of a mechanical movement - as said I'd say at least 3 - I'd personally count in the hairspring as one more. It was your choice to enhance on escapement smile

Again, I agree. I should have written the Spring Drive movement, and not just the escapement. Anyway that point was in response to John writing, "Maybe a large number of those watches are Spring Drive and don't require much intervention by watchmakers?" I don't agree that the Spring Drive does not require as labour, while I admit it is likely less so than for a mechanical watch I still think a Spring Drive movement requires more labour than quartz.

- SJX

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A Short History of the Grand Seiko

 
 By: SJX : January 4th, 2008-07:06
There is hardly any English language information available for Grand Seiko so I decided to put one together. I actually wrote a few words on this some years back, but never completed or published it. Since there has been substantial interest on the forum ...  

Great reading for GS fans... and for those who are not familiar with ...

 
 By: Horolographer : January 4th, 2008-08:50
the watches or have not seen a GS before. Thanks JX for a wonderful article. Cheers Harry

Wonderful summary, thank you

 
 By: Harry Bishop : January 4th, 2008-19:28

Fantastic read!! Thank you!!

 
 By: ks : January 4th, 2008-22:47
Do you happen to know if there is any dive watch series in Grand Seiko? Cheers! rgds ks

Thanks for the informative post about the GS.

 
 By: vlim : January 4th, 2008-23:18
I really have to take a closer look at their timepieces when the opportunity arises.

Thanks, SJX,

 
 By: masterspiece : January 5th, 2008-00:36

In two minds........

 
 By: MTF : January 5th, 2008-05:08

great read, but one particularly controversial passage

 
 By: ei8htohms : January 5th, 2008-07:41
Hi SJX, This is a great read and will likely serve to educate many Grand Seiko newbies for years to come. Thanks! I wantred to mention though that the often repeated bit about Seiko's success at the Observatory Competitions in Geneva and Neuchatel being r... 

Some thoughts on the controversy...

 
 By: SJX : January 5th, 2008-08:08
Hi ei8htohms, Thanks for the input. That's a good point and I do agree with it; that the discontinuation of the observatory trials due to the success of the Japanese can never be proven with any certainty, whatever is said is conjecture and personal opini... 

Great read, JiaXian, ....

 
 By: SuitbertW : January 5th, 2008-09:42
and a worthy subject as well. Re. the observatory chronometer competitions - I don't share your view on this, and I'd be curious to see the data you seem to have found. In 1968 - to my knowledge the Geneva chronometer competitions were already gone - i.e.... 

some info

 
 By: ei8htohms : January 5th, 2008-10:41

Like I wrote earlier Suibert...

 
 By: SJX : January 5th, 2008-19:20
I appreciate your comments; I look forward to your posts because they are always very informative. Like I wrote earlier, in agreement with John, whether the demise of the observatory trials is due to the quartz revolution or Japanese watches or anything e... 

Hi JiaXian, ....

 
 By: SuitbertW : January 6th, 2008-03:57
...don't take me wrong, I'm not going to convince you or attempting to change your opinion. But I found the facts on which you obviously based this opinion a bit puzzling. As John pointed out the reference to J. Goodall's - I'm going to see where the data... 

A reply

 
 By: SJX : January 6th, 2008-04:31

The source I have read which somewhat addresses this

 
 By: SteveG : January 5th, 2008-10:30
question, more in an informational rather than rhetorical fashion, is K. Seiya: At this page: www32.ocn.ne.jp .html#chrono ) "Chronometer appeal In the middle of 1960's, European Chronometer Official Association appealed that Seiko shouldn't use the name ... 

More info. added (GS with "Chronometer" and GS Astronomical Observatory Chronometer

 
 By: JoeT : January 5th, 2008-18:32
Hi Steve, I would like to add some pieces of info. here in accordance with some Japanese documents I have. 1) There were only 2 GS models having the word "Chronometer" on them; namely a) the GS3180 released in 1960 (widely known as the GS first model) by ...  

Thanks JoeT

 
 By: SJX : January 5th, 2008-19:22

Wow, great post, thanks! nt

 
 By: Chris Meisenzahl : January 5th, 2008-17:33

Thanks for a good read.

 
 By: yw wong : January 6th, 2008-08:40

Setting the record straight - I hope

 
 By: ticktock : January 6th, 2008-16:36
As the author of "A Journey in Time: The Remarkable Story of Seiko" which was one of the references used by SJX, it seems appropriate to post here Seiko's official description of the Spring Drive mechanism, as quoted in the press release issued at the tim... 

Thanks for the post.

 
 By: SJX : January 6th, 2008-18:16

Great stuff!

 
 By: masterspiece : January 7th, 2008-10:02

excellent report!!! [nt]

 
 By: The Curious Observer : January 10th, 2008-20:25