CR
[Moderator]
4022
I understand feeling betrayed and I feel badly for all who do. I wonder, though, is this betrayal a complete surprise?...
That's a genuine question. I would hope that Lange's actions did not surprise any collector who is knowledgeable about the brand. Lange's behavior has engendered similar (if not identical) feelings on several prior occasions. See my post above for examples.
Buyers of any LE (from Lange or any other brand) take a risk when it comes to perceived exclusivity, special-ness, etc. It's a gamble. We all hope that the brand will not introduce a later model that will detract in any way from what we already own. Often we win, but occasionally (hopefully very infrequently) we lose. Again, this is not new for Lange, in my opinion.
What does feel new here is the frequency: This just happened with the with 1815s (233.025, 236.049, 236.050) less than 2 years ago (photo of the 3 is in my post above).But of course, we're in a down market, so we'd expect this sort of behavior to happen more now than in better times.
[Apologies for using a non-existent ref. no. 236.025 previously. I meant 236.049.]
💰442 Marketplace Listings for A. Lange and Söhne›A. Lange and Söhne 1815 · 2 for sale · 4336 discussions›
New Richard Lange PLM.
So what do we think of the new limited 218-watch edition of the RICHARD LANGE “Pour le Mérite” in white gold with a black dial? You can see more in the ALS website. cheers fernando
Looks good to me....actually I was expecting ALS to come out with....
black dial RL jumping seconds and black dial Saxonia Moonphase next year in SIHH. Although white gold, it is a good competition to the current Pt RLJS. Rgds Raymond
I think it's a looker BUT.....
I am really disappointed with Lange. They are addicted to limited editions, and shortchanged the people who bought early. This time round they made the price even lower than the rose gold model, for a white gold model! Why would I want to buy new launches...
Doesn't the rose gold model have an enamel dial, while the white gold model has a standard dial?
That is a big differentiator, and should affect price--perhaps that is not sufficient in your mind, but they are different watches in at least that important way.
I am torn here.
On the one hand, it is beautiful and the movement is technically brilliant. On the other hand, I agree that this LE dilutes the previous editions\' scarcity and exclusivity. That said, I want, I want, I want....
Here is the picture.
I am sorry to say that this version has a big issue, which is a no go for me. Its dial is NOT enameled. While the two other sisters have an enamel dial. For a watch of this segment, and while the two other versions are enameled, this is a big issue, in my...
Nicolas, I couldn't have said it better, no enamel, means NO to me too
A missed opportunity
Now you have me seriously torn on this.
Like I said, I love it, but also do not appreciate the lack of 'email' dial. But I really want it. Damn this is hard to decide.
Again, I don't see the point of the "enamel" story.
More precisely with a black dial. What do we want? That a dial is an enamel dial because we want an enamel dial for the symbol or a beautiful black dial? Actually, what we need is to see the Watch in the metal to have a clear point of view about this dial...
The issue is not about enamel or non-enamel
It is about the simple fact that Lange announced the PLM as a limited 200 edition. This approach of trying to come up with variations to "side-step" their promise is going to dent their brand and customer trust. regds
A black enamel dial price will be very high and not good to make 218 pieces.
I remember the most recent black enamel dial was only for Lange 1 20th anniversary with 20pcs. I like the fact of this black dial PLM but now I'm worried if they do the Pt RLJS in black dial.... but that is what most forum members prefer or comment on thi...
agree..why this enamel obsession ?
Silver more consistent with Lange and lacquered back is fantastic (I assume it would be even better than the 1815 or at least as good). And of course the enamel one was crazily priced. Christian
I agree but as I said previously...
there was no good option. A black enamel dial: the watch would have become very expensive and not consistent with the two others and the current market. Black enamel is a crazy thing and if you consider that the dial has three layers, it becomes a nightma...
They are making this a more affordable watch.
That's in line with the new Saxonias at 37mm; and the Saxonia Moon. I don't see a problem with that, as long as Lange keeps its overall numbers down.
If they wanted to make a .....
More affordable watch, they should not have used the same model as the limited edition version, despite enamel or non-enamel. Instead, to your point (saxonia) perhaps the regular production model as the RL would have been more appropriate to differentiate...
Yes but the objective was to make it more affordable than the previous ones
There is no good solution in this context: - you do one with an enamel dial and people don't understand why a new color pops up years after - you do one without an enamel dial and at a more affordable price and people complain that it is not enamel and th...
In response....
- I agree with the people that would not understand it. If you want to do another color, do it in the same limited production run. 100 in rg and 100 in wg....still 200 pieces. But not years after. - I agree again with the people that complain, it should h...
It would have been better if they did all this in a single production run
Ideally Lange could have done a 500 run with say 150 in RG ; 150 in WG ; 125 in HoneyGold 75 in Platinum. Collectors would be happy in the knowledge that there would be nothing more sneaked in later in other disguises. Case and point is what Patek does. T...
I think 500 would be...
Too much but i am saying the same as you are (one single production run) only with lesser number. One Good thing that can come from this is that Lange does listen to its audience, so perhaps next time this will not happen again.
The colours, the design, the size and symmetry, the whole
watch is wonderful! But it is really a shame, that the watch hasn\'t got an enamel dial! As for the limitation, I find it always as a manufacturer gag. Because Lange is part of the Richemont Group, I think this decisions come from higher levels and not fr...
Lange has pulled a bad trick on collectors
By re-launching the PLM which was originally a limited edition of 200, Lange has short changed the collectors that paid for exclusivity. Even though the dial is not enamel, the approach taken by Lange is quite unfair to loyal Lange watch collectors. I gue...
gorgeous watch! I understand your frustration but...
I think a new version at the same price would have not done very well. AFAIK the previous version was not moving very well..so they had to be realistic in this market..but I understand your frustration.
Not the first time Richemont & ALS frustrates me....
Maybe I should start collecting another watch brand... or just focus more on my other collections. I can only say that a few of my friends, die hard collectors of ALS, are not pleased at all with these developments.
You have a point...
Regarding the plm. I can\'t comment on Patek though, other than their annual calendar co-signed with tiffany. But, there are noticeable differences with their recently launched 5396 as well as the regular model had a price that was similar (i believe).
one more thing :)
"Classic example were the Pagoda(whose moulds were destroyed by Patek after the production run)" I am personally very much relieved to know that the pagoda moulds were destroyed! wouldn't shed a tear over that ! Christian
I'm having a hard time getting excited...
...wait, someone thought I was going to say "about this watch"? ;-) Nah. Come on! It\'s a time-only watch with a perfectly-proportioned sub-second dial at 6, a classical dial with Roman numerals, and a movement that is all about performance. That basicall...
I have to say I am with you.
Everything you say was about to be in this post of mine. I'll just add that there are still only 468 of these RLPLMs out there; and only 250 will (presumably) ever be in RG with an enamel dial. That is still quite exclusive.
I totally agree that buying as an "investment" is wrong...
and one has to be realistic and consider that -- beside rare occasions -- you always lose money when you sell. Buy what you like and expect that somewhen there will be another watch release that will be "better" than yours or at a different price. I don't...
I couldn't have said it better
This is a beautiful watch period. What's with all the anger? Yes enamel dial would have been better but why doesn't this just please the original owners of the PLM more that their iteration is more unique? Full disclosure I like buying new watches and my ...
Just to clarify
If Lange had earlier announced the Enamel RG version of PLM as a limited series then one could have logically accepted that other series bearing variations of the PLM would come in the future and accordingly the exclusivity factor expectations moderated. ...
Yes I see your point so well articulated
perhaps the new version should have been at the same price point, which would have made the first run enamels even more special, which in my opinion they are still very special and holy grail watches in pt or rg. If Lange instead made 500 white gold three...
Yes watches shouldn't be seen as investment.....
and brands cannot guarantee their secondary prices. We can all live with that. However, brands shouldn't participate in the downward spiral of prices by making big cuts in prices of a similar model. If they do it, this is very very unsophisticated. What a...
better than the previous one... and better without enamel ....
silver dial more consistent with the german tradition (and let's face it, more robust). It makes sense to reduce the price accordingly. A new watch for new times. Black dial on silver lange is simple spectacular...and very Lange Christian
This (beautiful)watch is a clear reflection of whats going on in the "big group"brands ..
and in the watch industry in general. -It would have been amazing to have it in black enamel,lets don't digress on how difficult,how hard to make etc please...plenty of other brands do it,you don't need unicorn horn dust!(Platinum hard to work,enamel too ...
Perfectly put, you hit the nail here
I must say that I started to collect ALS many years ago and was mesmerized by the story of Lange, so passionately explained to me by a good friend, resulting in buying my first Lange 1 Moonphase. The Saxony story, the history, Walter Lange, the small size...
You have more right to complain as you put your money where your mouth is...
27k for an enamel dial is just not justifiable. Again one could argue that it\'s difficult to make, perhaps for a greengrocer s or a butcher, but certainly if you commission it to a dial manufacture, it\'s their job to do it. Bad move ,, it should have ha...
Enamel dial Seiko SRQ019, retailing at 2500 EUR
Those luxury brands should stop lying how expensive this and that actually is. I\'m sure there are Seiko fans here that can say how beautiful this dial is, made by the skilled enamel craftsman Mr. Mitsuru Yokozawa. And limited without any intention to mak...
To me, this is just the most recent iteration of an old dynamic...
"Pour le Mérite" models: In 1994, Lange introduced the Tourbillon "Pour le Mérite," a limited edition featuring a fusée and chain as its distinguishing characteristic. Twelve years later, in 2006, Lange re-used the fusée and chain mechanism and "Pour le M...
They should have just called the original PLM series a chain and fusee watch
I no longer see what's so Pour La Merite about it. My original feeling about the PLM was it was original(first chain and fusee in a wrist watch) and technically quite intriguing. Now it's just a bunch of lazy management rehashing old models, without innov...
No need to apologize! I appreciate your comments, and it's nice...
... to see any thread that is deeper than just a photo.
Not Sure I Agree
I agree absolutely with CR that the relation of the HG Tourbograph to the original Pt version is analogous to what we are now seeing with the new WG RL PLM relative to the original enamel versions. Same deal. However, I am not sure that I see that the rel...
Keep it simple and polite
Lange remains one of my 2 favorite "big" brands. Really not much else to consider. But in recent years their complications have been "too complicated" and too big. They lack some finesse, maybe for the sake of showing their capabilities. Give me an L1 per...
You would buy or you will buy ?
Don\'t get me wrong, my heart sings for this watch and for most Lange watches, but they pulled a trick. We are all passionate and emotional about our watches, and this simply takes away the feeling of owning something special, something unique. I just can...
I understand feeling betrayed and I feel badly for all who do. I wonder, though, is this betrayal a complete surprise?...
That's a genuine question. I would hope that Lange's actions did not surprise any collector who is knowledgeable about the brand. Lange's behavior has engendered similar (if not identical) feelings on several prior occasions. See my post above for example...
The risk is even bigger for Lange... Think about the guy who find this new RL PLM nice,
BUT who is thinking; " Hey let's wait for the real stuff to come, since they will probably release it one day or another... ". At this game, they will not sell a watch, if it is well known that Lange will probably come with another version. Best, Nicolas
Lange makes watches costing from $15000 to a $1,000,000.
They have made less than 135,000 watches in their 22 years of rebirth. They make a movement for every model. Where is this not exclusive? Who is being betrayed? How many times does anyone here "randomly" meet another person wearing a Lange, much less the ...
Geez, it's just a watch,
and a GREAT one at that. There is no "trick" or "betrayal." I would be proud to own it, even if they come up with the less expensive blue one you mention. I've got no contract or expectation with Lange that they can't produce something similar to a watch ...
People!
Are you reading what you are writing?! So Lange added 218 pieces to an uber-exclusive run of one particular model. Lange has not all of a sudden become inexclusive; or run-of-the-mill. There are still only 468 of these watches; now in three metals and wit...
I love this post.
It really puts the "exclusivity" into context. I don't understand how Patek gets a pass with all their metal variations of the same movement yet Lange gets flamed. My only conclusion as to why is Patek doesn't run the LE numbers and collectors hold Lange ...