THL - Alex Ghotbi : My vintage triple date 4240 disaster story (re-post)

Aug 23, 2019,04:22 AM
 


My vintage triple date 4240 disaster story

November 26, 07 15:04 by Alex Ghotbi

The Hour Lounge – The Vacheron Constantin Discussion Forum

[pictures and links removed by TIMESET]


JohnLy's post about his beautiful triple date model got me thinking of my story with a similar model a rather funny one looking back but definitely the pits back then!


THE HUNT

Who hasn’t ever dreamt of THE impossible find?

Who has never been to the flea market in hope of coming face to face with a 1940s Vacheron Constantin minute repeater of which the seller knows nothing of and agrees to sell for the price of a pint of beer at your local pub?

Please bear with me while I narrate my quest for the 4240.

Let’s rewind back to 1998 where I bought my first vintage Vacheron Constantin, it was an automatic rose gold model with opaline dial dating from the 60s which I later sold and kick myself everyday for having done so ever since. 1998 is the year I was bitten by the VC bug and even more by the vintage bug.

Ever since, I have been trying to pick up vintage VCs to complete my (never ending) collection.

One piece I had been looking for was the ref 4240. A few aesthetic details attracted me to this watch: triple date without moonphase and the absolutely stunning pear shaped lugs. One must remember that in the 40s (when this watch was produced) the wristwatch had just become an ordinary accessory and the brands were starting to test new designs and shapes and Vacheron Constantin were one of the more avant-garde brands with some really zanzy lug designs!

Vacheron watches from that era were mostly with teardrop lugs and a triple date without moonphase was something of a rarity since the taste at the time (seems like the market taste for moonphases has not really changed in the past 60 years) collectors preferred having a moonphase display if the watch also had calendar functions.

The hunt for a 4240 took many years. I was not avidly seeking one but always had an eye and ear open.


THE CATCH

In December 2002 a garage sale was organized in my neighborhood. I had been to one before sometime back and apart from some old LP records I had never found anything of interest but the search for THE impossible lead me to go see what I could find.

One Sunday morning I wrapped myself up in coat and scarf and headed in the cold weather to the area where the sale was taking place. Needless to say that very few people were there due to the lousy climatic conditions.

I stopped at every stall which looked as if something of interest could be found: some torn paperbacks, video tapes of a long forgotten film (which probably never hit the theaters), posters of Iron Maiden or CDs were my food until I stumbled on a booth (more like a table on the sidewalk) held by a very charming young woman in her 20s.

I would be lying if I told you that the watches and jewelry on the table were the only reason I stopped to look. Among a few broken down Le Coultres and Lip watches I saw IT: THE impossible deal: a VC watch and what looked like a triple date no moonphase watch.

I asked the woman behind the table if I could look at the watch. With an absolutely gorgeous heartwarming smile she handed me the timepiece. Now my hands were trembling and heart beating fast and this time because of the watch: the 4240 I had been searching for.

I tried not to show that I was interested in the VC and spent sometime looking at the others. Off handedly I asked her why she was selling her watches and she replied that her parents were changing neighborhoods and were selling some of their old “stuff” (that’s the word she used: I could almost hear Jean Marc Vacheron turning in his grave!) but she had no idea what was what since she was only helping out.

I picked up the VC once again, the month disc was crooked, when wound I could hear a grinding noise and the dial was probably done by a 3 year old child with no artistic talents whatsoever: absolutely horrendous! Furthermore, the crown was not the original one but replaced by a Büren crown. I opened the case back and the case and movement were both signed. I still wanted the watch, if I was to get a good deal I would take it to a watchmaker and have it cleaned.

I asked her what she wanted, she gave me a pretty low price (I’m talking ridiculously low), I tried to haggle a bit just for the fun of it, but she told me the watch was 100% gold and very precious and knocked off a little to make a fast deal.

I paid, put the watch in my pocket danced a little jig right there and then and hummed the music of Indiana Jones and the Lost Grail all the way back home!

That evening I was really excited, the watch was not in great shape but what the hell, all she needed was some loving and taking care of and she would soon be purring happily on my wrist.

But this is where all the fun begins…if you’re a masochist!


THE WAIT

I have an excellent friend who is a vintage watch dealer but also has one of the better known watch repair ateliers in town, well guess what? I didn’t take it to him, don’t ask me why, but to someone else I vaguely knew.

I dropped the watch the next day asking for a complete overhaul and if possible to have the dial redone. The clerk told me that it would be no problem since he has an excellent dial restorer in Hong Kong who performs miracles but one should be patient. No problem with that sonny, I was as patient as a hibernating bear. I wanted my beloved 4240 to be perfect.

A few weeks later I passed by to check on my new baby and see how things were advancing. I was told that the watch had been cleaned and the date disc was now functioning perfectly. The dial had been sent to Hong Kong but had not yet arrived.

I call a week later inquiring about the dial. Still not arrived.

I called another week after. No dial

I called almost every week for 2 months and still no dial!! When asked if the dial had been sent by registered post the answer was no but if it would make me feel better, 7 other dials had been sent before mine and they had not been received either!!

I was as close to a nervous breakdown as you can get. My 4240 was now an opendial watch!! Needless to say that by March (over 3 months after the purchase) we called it quits and I picked up my watch, walked out of the shop never to return again.

I debated on calling Vacheron and humiliate myself with the story or try to figure out if I could have a new dial made. I finally decided on going directly to the source and called up the head of VC in my town and after the traditional greetings I explained the situation and our conversation went like this:


VC: Why did you not bring the watch to us in the first place?

Me: mumble mumble mumble

VC: You know that we are the only ateliers outside of Geneva who can work on vintage pieces?

Me: OH really mumble mumble mumble?

VC: How the hell did you manage to loose a dial in the first place?

Me: Oh Lord please have the earth open right now so I can fall in.


Anyway, after our discussion I took the 4240 to the VC ateliers and see what could be done. I re explained the situation to the head of the after sales department who with a smirk (which I probably only imagined but I could almost hear the watchmakers in the back laughing out loud too!!) told me that he was aware of the situation and would see what he could do. Finding an original dial was close to impossible and making a new one would cost a lot and he was not sure if VC would actually accept.

I left him the watch and he told me he would call me if he had any news.

I called him regularly to check on the situation and invariably got the same answer: “nothing yet, but its not good news if it takes so long”! About two months after having taken the watch to VC I called the after sales department and got this answer which was music to my ears : “you may be lucky, we have found an original dial but need to have it sent to us to check if it fits the watch”. I could not believe my ears!! God is a WIS and he is on my side My vintage triple date 4240 disaster story

A week after I get a phone call from VC saying that the dial had arrived and it fit the watch!! In fact Vacheron had checked with all their agents and dealers around the world and it just happened that an old watchmaker from Amsterdam had this dial in his stock!! Lucky me.

There was only one catch: the movement was in a sorry state, it had been fiddled around by what seemed to me more of a butcher than a watchmaker and many of the components needed to be remade since VC did not have the spare parts. Two problems: it would take an extra 4 months to redo everything (this was in May) and it would be quite costly.

With a feeble voice I asked how much and the quote I got almost knocked me off!!! Over twice what I had originally paid for the watch!! I got a detailed explanation of all the new parts that needed to be redone, I accepted the quote and patiently awaited September.


THE RETURN

In September I got a call from the head of VC after sales department: “Mr. G , your watch is almost ready, we need to change the seconds hand which is not original and it will take an extra month, furthermore the head of the ateliers would like to change the day/month discs since their color do not quite match the color of the date indication, they are not quite the same red!” hey who cares? At this stage I didn’t even remember what the watch looked like!

Finally on Friday 7 November, 2003 at 10.00, 11 months after having purchased the watch I pushed the doors leading me to the entrance of the Vacheron Constantin ateliers to pick up my precious.

The 4240 indicates the day and month through 2 apertures in the top center of the dial, the date is printed on the periphery of the dial and indicated by a red tip pointer. Seconds are at 6.

The dial is two tone, with 5 applied Arabic numerals at 10, 12, 2, 4, 8 and 6 pyramid shaped indexed in between.

I think I got quite lucky since this dial layout was more often found in the ref 4241 which is the same with tear drop lugs. The 4240 usually came with Roman numerals and baton indexes.

The case is 36mm in diameter, stepped sides and down turned lugs which enable the watch to sit perfectly on the wrist.

The snap on back is decorated with perlage on the interior.

The movement that ticks inside is the caliber 485, which beats at the leisurely rate of 18000 VPH and beautifully decorated with Geneva stripes.


This whole adventure has taught me a few things that I would like to share with you:

1) Never buy something just because the seller looks like a model from Elite

2) Find a good watchmaker and stick to him, in the long run it will cost you less

3) A good deal doesn’t exist

4) A good deal doesn’t exist especially if the sale takes place under conditions described in 1


I wonder what I will find in this year’s December garage sale?


Vacheron & Constantin ref 4240 (picture source www.phillips.com )


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Comments: view entire thread

 

Quatum Leap (II) - The Vacheron & Constantin ref 4240 / 4241 Calendar Watches

 
 By: anon438 : May 13th, 2019-22:52
Hi Student, Since it is another topic I prefer to start a new thread. (below in pink V&C ref 4241) ...  

and another with cornu d'vache lugs

 
 By: watch-guy.com : May 13th, 2019-23:09
...  

nice [nt]

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 13th, 2019-23:32

an interesting question

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 13th, 2019-23:35
VC few published the production of one type movement or reference . For example, the Chronometre Royal with caliber1007&1008. In 1942, the VC produced Ref. 4240, triple calendar, using caliber 455 . Then caliber 485, 495 were produced, with models 4240,42... 

The Production Figures

 
 By: anon438 : May 14th, 2019-12:37
As far as I know there was little published yet about production figures and as you may remember from the V&C Chronographs from that period, there were many variants and each variant with different numbers. Variants of cases, of lugs, of dials, of mov... 

I know it's hard to find an answer to this question.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 14th, 2019-18:08
.may be total for them is less than 2000 pieces, so less 200 pieces per year . at that time, the VC output of all watches was 5,000 per year.

The Production Figures II

 
 By: anon438 : May 14th, 2019-20:33
I think to get a better understanding of the production figures, you have to look closely at the V&C Chronograph watches of that time. Why? Because they have been in a very close price bracket. And you should think about, if they would have been sold bett...  

Your sharing always brings surprises.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 15th, 2019-00:59
The price marked in example, I can understand line 3. It's 18kyg and 18kpg. line1 mean for steel case ? the letters:heures,couronne,anses. can you tell me what are the three words mean for. thank you.

Variant Description 4241 and 4240 calendar in the price sheet

 
 By: anon438 : May 15th, 2019-02:47
Acier inoxydable, heures or, couronne or -> stainless steel ( link ), hour indices (hour markers) gold, crown gold (for 4241 and 4240) Acier inoxydable, anses or -> stainless steel, lugs gold (for 4240 only) Or 18 ct jaune ou rouge -> yellow gold 18K or r... 

thank you

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 15th, 2019-04:03


Huh? what is going on with the 4444!?

 
 By: LS : May 15th, 2019-05:37
was there really a watch that retailed for 17,325 CHF in 1949?! I can't find any pictures of this ref on google.

Vacheron & Constantin ref 4444 - The Beast

 
 By: anon438 : May 15th, 2019-10:58
I guess you have seen it. ...  

What we already know - Retrospection

 
 By: anon438 : May 14th, 2019-11:59
Article from "The Hour Louge" - The Vacheron Constantin Discussion Forum "... The calendar is like the air we breathe, it surrounds us, it rhythms our lives, but we don’t really pay any attention to it. ... Quantum Leap: History of Vacheron Constantin Cal...  

Thank you for your sharing.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 14th, 2019-17:51
I've read this article carefully before, but unfortunately I haven't saved it (because THL is closed). Now I reading it, there is a feeling of reunion between old friends.

new arrival

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 19th, 2019-06:57
,18kyg ...  

What means new arrival

 
 By: anon438 : May 19th, 2019-10:22
Tell me some more about the watch. Do you have more pictures?

sure

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 19th, 2019-14:26
its a nice one for me, original dial with patinas. caliber 485,movement ,case i think its made in early 1950s,maybe in 1950. ...  

I usually enjoy some wabi also

 
 By: anon438 : May 20th, 2019-02:58
Most of that calendars have some issue with the dial. Try to do some pictures with natural light at lunch time, a even better outcome would maybe achieved. Do you have pictures of the inside also? The numbers and the caliber would put the watch to the lat... 

more pictures

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 20th, 2019-03:28
...  

Tell me more about the watch, was it the same source or where this watch come from?

 
 By: anon438 : May 20th, 2019-11:47
The movement seem to have been well cared for that age, probably compelete overhoul.

i got it from my friend

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 20th, 2019-17:46
a chinese vintage watches collector。

My recommendation for you would be

 
 By: anon438 : May 21st, 2019-01:58
Take some sharp and high resolution photos from inside and outside of the watch with natural light and afterwards return the watch to your friend. Tell him you need some time to decide, your wife make troubles – whatever. If he is a friend, he should acce... 

please tell me your advice about the vc

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 21st, 2019-02:15
maybe i cannot return it . the pictures take by myself.

I need better pictures, I don't like to guess something

 
 By: anon438 : May 21st, 2019-03:23
The authentication isn't instandly done, it needs some time. To do so, I need to see high resolution pictures. So first start to do better photos, with as much natural light as possible (window to outside at lunch time), good camera... Did you try to retu... 

i will provide high definition pictures.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 21st, 2019-04:52
This watch was bought by my friend from Japan auction. I don't think the watch with a problem. I see you are an expert in vintage vc. Your suggestions are valuable. I will study it carefully in the future. But I bought this watch only after I saw it , so ... 

I'm not that fast with my final quote.

 
 By: anon438 : May 21st, 2019-12:11
But we will see.

Good News

 
 By: anon438 : May 25th, 2019-09:07
Hello student, I checked some more data and tried to exploit the photos you sent. Now I'm quite confident it is authentic , because I could spot another ref 4240 with identical dial (print and hour markers) and very close numbers, the watch I found was re... 

its a good news [nt]

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 25th, 2019-14:42

I just saw your message

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 27th, 2019-21:31
Last Saturday, I went to Beijing and visited VC's China Antique pocket watches and Watches Tour official maintenance technician identified the watch. The dial was original and there was no problem. My photography skills are so poor that I no longer provi... 

I'm right.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 27th, 2019-21:45
Referring to the screenshot, the exhibition number is the same, 12100. The official internal information was wrong at first, and then corrected correctly.

screenshots

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 27th, 2019-21:48
...  

It's hard to check with the pictures I saw initially

 
 By: anon438 : May 27th, 2019-23:24
Therefore I gave you the knoledge how to differnciate the two ref's 4240 / 4241: Look at the pushers! And you were right from the very beginning, congratulations. Did they also raise the price? The 4241 in steel is the rarest calendar version.

The price of steel ref.4241 is about $35,000.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 27th, 2019-23:57
One of my most interesting exhibition watches is Ref. 4072, a nearly perfect case and dial. Enamel letters. I think my understanding of vintage VC has not reached a certain level. So I won't purchase for vintage VC chronograph in next 2 years. Accumulate ... 

Good to see that better pictures

 
 By: anon438 : May 29th, 2019-22:42
That's a quite good example for, which high impact the quality of photos have on sensation and impression. Link Compare to the photos shown initially, you could even think it's a different watch, but no it isn't. ...  

Thats also a very good sample to illustrate

 
 By: anon438 : May 29th, 2019-23:23
The extraordinary abilities of Vacheron Constantin in treating Vintage carefully. ...  

thank you for sharing

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 30th, 2019-02:59
You re-edit and analyze the photos, which is convenient for everyone to learn. I'm surprised that you can find the website of China. Are you proficient in Chinese? vc's renovation of antique watches is amazing.

You Mean Chinese Language - Mandarin

 
 By: anon438 : May 30th, 2019-04:12
No, not yet proficient.

i guess your chinese is much more better than my english.

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 30th, 2019-04:31
Are you German or Chinese?

I would wish to speak better Chinese than your English

 
 By: anon438 : May 30th, 2019-04:42
I'm German. My knowledge is more basic, more like some common knowledge about Chinese living culture like food or tea, art, religion, literature, sport, history and stuff like that. As well I do like to let tailor my suits at A Man Hing Cheong (one of the... 

good

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 30th, 2019-05:02
We have many hobbies in common. The antique VC is one of them. I'm obsessed with ancient Chinese history (from the 4th to 6th centuries ). At the same time, there is a certain understanding of Buddhist sculptures in this period. We may have more similar t... 

But your Avatar isn't a Chinese Buddha

 
 By: anon438 : May 30th, 2019-05:10
I've only basic understanding of Buddhist teachings. You are Chinese National or American Chinese? ...  

the picture take by myself

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 30th, 2019-05:30
It is truly a Buddhist sculpture of the 5th century in China. Combining various artistic styles, can you see the style of Indian Buddhist sculpture? It is called "Qingzhou Style". If you come to Shandong Province of China, you can feel its beauty on the s... 

it's a very small picture

 
 By: anon438 : May 30th, 2019-05:32
I would have guessed it's Pala - Indian. But yours is Chinese and lime stone, they are phantastic art. According to the posture of hands (indian mudra) they have had a certain meaning mostly corresponding to Buddhas life (or former life) story.

北齐

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 30th, 2019-06:17
It's 200 years earlier. At that time there was later gupta dynasty. ...  

i am chinese national [nt]

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 30th, 2019-16:15

new arrival means

 
 By: teacher Sun : May 19th, 2019-15:21
i get it recently.

Congratulation

 
 By: anon438 : May 20th, 2019-02:48
I'm quite convinced it will please you, those calendars are of such marvelous beauty.

THL - Alex Ghotbi : My vintage triple date 4240 disaster story (re-post)

 
 By: anon438 : August 23rd, 2019-04:22
My vintage triple date 4240 disaster story November 26, 07 15:04 by Alex Ghotbi The Hour Lounge – The Vacheron Constantin Discussion Forum [pictures and links removed by TIMESET] JohnLy's post about his beautiful triple date model got me thinking of my st...  

thank you for reminding me

 
 By: teacher Sun : August 23rd, 2019-06:23
The ref. 4240 I bought isnot good enough. I don't think the second sale will lose money.

Don't be silly with your calendar.

 
 By: anon438 : August 23rd, 2019-06:47
It's a Vacheron & Constantin, a Vacheron & Constantin will never go out of style. Think about the wabi of yours. If you like to have a pristine one, buy a new one or if you like to have a vintage one but pristine condition, probably the only one way is by... 

i think that

 
 By: teacher Sun : August 23rd, 2019-14:00
Close to perfection is the most perfect thing. It will make you feel a little pity, but reluctant to part. I will look for better antique VC, especially triple calendar. This will be my own collection.

At the moment it seems already to be it's quite difficult to find...

 
 By: anon438 : August 24th, 2019-02:38
...one of those calendars (ref 4240, 4240L or ref 4241 4241L or ref 4385 or even one of those ref 4461 or 4462 or 4560 or 4623 or maybe even the ref 4764) in unmolested state. The values for 'very good - good' ones easily triple those for average watches ... 

I really think yours is a better sample of those 4240 calendars

 
 By: anon438 : August 25th, 2019-01:41
I've seen many many of them and my summary would be, yours wabi is very tolerable and pleasant. Beeing initially cautious was mainly because of the index configuration I haven't seen before and the not so good pictures from your side. But I found a dial v...  

thank you sharing the important informations.

 
 By: teacher Sun : August 25th, 2019-21:24
I have benefited a lot from your information and suggestions.