patrick_y
[PuristSPro Moderator]
33573
You'd be surprised...
I totally understand how you feel. But, you are not considering empirical data nor are you giving empathy to the retailer's dilemma. A study was done, and watchmakers have access to said study, a fairly large double digit percentage of watches are bought by people who resell them within six months. So, when that large of a percentage of watches sold are to resellers, yes, the retailers do start treating everyone like a "criminal." Among other things this report indicated; in certain markets, the percentages of watches resold are even higher! And there's a specific demographic of people who seem to be very much into the watch reselling business. We all like to complain about the brands. Nothing new. But it's really more schadenfreude than anything. Can you propose an alternative practice for the dealers that meet their needs too?
Only PP ADs can
so, I was looking for a Calatrava 5226G or 6119G. I have visited five ADs in three different countries thus far. Here is a catalog of unusual questions they have posed to me: 1. This can only be a cash only transaction. No credit card payments for PP watc...
Remember in law school...?
Remember in law school classes, we had to defend both sides? Amanico, please play devil's advocate - I think we can agree that there is some legitimate reasons why retailers have to ask these annoying questions.
Wow…last time I visited a PP and Rolex AD was in Germany 2022…
They did say “no” to Tourists especially Rolex but there are some PP pilots and WT 5230s that I can still buy, no such questions. Being able to travel to Europe and buy some nice watches used to be a fun experience and memories. I didn’t know things have ...
that's what we do too
go back home to Asia and purchase watches. Apparently that is a no go now for PP
It’s unfortunate how frustrating some AD experiences have become
it wasn’t always that way
yeap
well, what goes around will come around. Those AD offering discounts on SS Nautilus model won't that long ago. May come back again 😎
I was also told "no tourists" at multiple stores in Germany too.
Sure, I could quickly complain that the store judged me, didn't like me, didn't like what I was wearing, or something else and say the store is judging me in some unethical way - but these would be claims with little supporting evidence. But, from a busin...
While I agree it's cumbersome, I understand the underlying need...
When you have more customers than watches, and an arbitrage opportunity for bad actors, these kind of measures are understandable and even reasonable. Simply put, the brand wants to know who their dealers are selling their watches to. As easy as that. And...
I don't buy that fallacy
just because there are some crooks out there, u start treating everyone that walks through your door a criminal?
You'd be surprised...
I totally understand how you feel. But, you are not considering empirical data nor are you giving empathy to the retailer's dilemma. A study was done, and watchmakers have access to said study, a fairly large double digit percentage of watches are bought ...
You're not considering both sides of the equation...
First of all, you're asking the wrong question. It's not about how I feel about the situation. Ask a judge or a lawyer or a mediator and it's never about how they feel. And for you to use the phrase "that attitude is indefensible" suggests you're very unl...
dude, we are talking about buying a watch
money is in my pocket, put it crudely. U choose not to sell to me, I go somewhere else. But don't forbid me from bitching. And never ask me to do your work for u by coming up with a solution.
ADs behavioral patterns
i believe it is more complicated than that. certainly ADs feel the pressure from PP to choose their customers well. but at the same time some of them (ab)use this situation and the artificial scarcity of PP sports watches (the others you can buy under ret...
I started this thread to share a candid situation
never thought it would turn into this serious a topic, where esquire and law school got thrown around. Like u said, it's just a watch 😅 That said, I'm beginning to see a trend here. Grey mkt. I should start looking into that. I will let others be "intervi...
There are also reputable shops
That sell used or NOS pieces where you don’t have to put up with AD bullshit.
I would walk out the store
When they ask these kind of questions. None of their business. Save yourself a substantial amount and buy from a reputable third party / dealer. They sure know how to ruin what should be a special experience these ADs.
I am glad someone see it our way
we just feel that those are quite impolite questions.
I’m in the same boat, considering Ferrier also
And have stopped going into Patek ADs as lost enjoyment visiting them. Another reason, I’m not interested in any production pieces the last few releases.
Kinda sick with such games...
When i started my PP journey, got all sorts of questions asked - do you have a purchase record with us? - what are your existing collection? - what's your occupation? - Where's your residence? - Are you active on social media? Do you post frequently. - an...
perhaps trying to save on credit card fees
that's our only logical conclusion. but at a PP AD 🤔
I agree, that's my impression as well...
My impression as well that they're trying to save on credit card fees. It's also a safety issue - stores are hit with a lot of credit card fraud - but they have insurance that covers this. One other distinction. When they said "cash only" are they expecti...
Cash only may be to eliminate any traceable record of who purchased the watch if combined with a purported name of a local person on the Certifcate.
Both conditions would be totally unacceptable to me.
FYI this is an AD from the US
my wife is more annoyed by missing all her airline miles 😅
For me the basic problem is too much demand relative to supply. This has led to all sorts of craziness. As far as the US AD asking for all cash,
that takes craziness to an even greater extreme.. Any cash received in a transaction by a US retailer that is $10,000 USD or more, must be reported by that retailer on a special form to the Internal Revenue Service. Of course, that doesn’t mean that the A...
Patekova, perhaps we are being too quick to assume the definition of "cash"
... as "cash" could mean actual paper bills and coins or it can also mean a wire transfer or check. The word "cash" has multiple meanings in some areas. Nobody wants the IRS paperwork. It's possible the authorized dealer meant "wire transfer" or "check" a...
Good point Patrick. Yes, I applied the literal definition of “cash”, but it is possible the dealer would be ok with a wire transfer or check
and merely wants to avoid bearing the 2/3% or so that the credit company charges the dealer.
out of their minds....
your wife is totally right, those questions are intrusive and inappropriate and violate the customer-AD relationship's definition. i would have answered: when did you have sexual intercourse the last time? ::: ))) there are other watchbands with beautiful...
First, good choice in going after the 5226 and 5119 ! My friends and I have also faced similar questions but the one about
cash only is a strange request. Who wants to walk around with tens of thousands of dollars ? On payments, I experienced being requested to use a different credit card in order to lower the transaction fee for my next purchase. I got the hint and was happy...
I see one of my issues now
I usually go in with TShirts and shorts (but the kind that is in and hard to get, if you are into streetwear) 🤣🤣 Oh they definitely asked for bundling. I thought that is a norm and don't bother to mention it here. A diamond watch for the Mrs is the min st...
As long as you wear a
Patek on your wrist, you have a much better shot no matter what you wear !
AD behavior
i talked to a friend today who runs an AD for the swatch group brands. he told me that the PP ADs can showcase those behavioral patters because PP explicitly condones it. nautilus/aquanaut for diamonds/jewlerry is absolutely normal.
Patek Philippe UK doesn't condone bundling Nautilus/Aquanauts with diamonds/jewellery.
My former AD started bundling Nautilus/Aquanauts with diamonds/jewellery and the dealership was revoked.
depends on the AD...
...i know of two ADs who have been doing it for years. very openly. however, another dealership in the same town got their PP contract cancelled. it is all about on where the AD is in TS' grace.
Neither Patek nor Rolex will process tax refunds.
My understanding is that they think this step will prevent ppl from buying in EU and flipping in US or Asia. Same is happening with purses at places like Hermes and Chanel. There’s a limit to how many each customer can purchase (if they have anything to s...
neither PP nor rolex does process tax refunds. the ADs do. i had one PP AD refuse to process...
...the tax refund. obviously i did not buy from them and went elsewhere.
Yes that’s more accurate.
But this directive comes from each company. The ADs don’t care. Or prefer to give the discount to sell something they can’t move.
actually, to be more precise...
...PP and rolex tell their ADs to make sure that al least 80% of the watches they sell go to local clients. the ADs then somehow manage that request - reluctantly - and prioritize regular non-local clients over others. although PP and rolex have no way to...
While that’s true, the fact remains that no more duty free shopping.
I tried to buy a platinum president in Capri 2021 but was told that there’s no tax free. It didn’t make sense not to get the VAT back.
That’s interesting.
In Capri I was told that Rolex doesn’t allow tax back. Patek in Capri told me the same thing . In 2023 Rome Patek, Rolex and FPJ had no watches for sale. So it was a moot point to ask about tax back.