Patek Philippe

This is a wide subject and I was more particularly emphasizing the fact that (like in any other fileds, and not only aesthetical ones) the more we talk and focus on a few actors and the more we tend to like them and the less we give a chance to others, especially novelties.

Hence, the need to take some distance and have a look also at what is different. Not myabe for today but maybe for tomorrow.

It is the same with food, we can like to remain with our favorite meals and won't like other food as much at the beginning (that's how tastes are shaped in that field, same with salt, sugar etc...), but trying and getting interested in other foods, other recipes, might, after a while, help us getting pleasure in even more meals

However, this subject is totally linked with what you mentionned, and especially what we see in a watch and what we don't. A position that we might not be taking considering other watches that are not still/yet as famous.

I think it is human (especially what you say in introduction) and I also work that way, it is natural. Knowing this, I know that sometimes I have to "give a chance" to others. I've been often surprised by what I could find doing so

For instance, I would never have gone towards some Independent watchmakers if I had remained on the first Lange watches I saw at the beginning of my watch journey. Finally now, I like Lange and I like indies etc... (and even Rolexes now, brand I had a lot of bias - against?- ).

What I really try to explain is that the discovery, the exploration may bring more in terms of pleasure for each of us in the future. Not for today necessarily (even though some people might be hesitating and I hope that this post can help them chosing what they really like and not what seems to be the "good" choice from what they read) but for tomorrow as we evolve, because, yes, we often evolve in terms of tastes.

Knowing that, we can narrow our potential pleasures is what I wished to emphasize.

As you said, all watches have pros and cons and it depends on the view, the bias we have (and also its intrinsec qualities of course, beauty etc.. like the 5110, 5070 definitely have). Some we don't see the flaws anymore that we might on the other hand reproach to another watch that doesn't have the "iconic" status. This being said, there are flaws that might add a special feeling on a watch (charm) and that might just don't work on another.

Like in music with dissonances.

That's why I think we can miss something by withdrawing to quickly some watches (and especially novelties that are new by definition, thus watches we didn't have time yet to understand).

Indeed what is discontinued has a little additional flavour, added to the volume produced.

_____________________

OFF-TOPIC 1

I find interesting discussing about what you say on each reference

5110: I've been looking at the R pictures I have yesterday and it looks sooo appealing. I find the 5230 stunning and I don't know yet which I would get in the future (the difference in price will have an impact of course).

The 5130 is indeed a watch that is less appreciated on the forum but that many users love (because prefering size, hands and dial design, the city ring proportions that is more to their taste, the kind of guilloché pattern, etc...). Hence, the importance for people looking for a WT to look at all the references and not only the 5110 because it is the one people appreciate a lot here.

By the way, I find "blue" quite a classical color (thus more timeless), even if quite new.

5070: You emphasized another important point: the fact some watches did know the same success as today when they were launched. The proof that time may change things and that there is no real "truth" at one precise moment.

It also underlines the fact that if the design of the brand had stopped to 1950's-1990's designs, there would never have been any 5070, 5110 and 5970.

Indeed, each generation of colelctors want that the brand remains doing what they like and not move forwards to new patterns. That's human but it has to evolve. Now, in good or bad, it is too early to know while we can be sure that their will be mistakes too

This being said, I love that watch and I'm glad it has this legitimate place in the history of the brand. I envy your version

5170: A very funny story. We are all demanding to see a new 565, or a new 2499, or a new 1526 etc... In the mean time, what is today the watch that is the closest to the iconic chronographs from Patek (130, 530 etc..)? It is the 5170. THis model is very close to what the 530 was. Of course, the slightest changes can move a watch from "marvelous" to "just ok", and I don't forget that. But this is really a very close and modernized version of these older chronographs. However, comapred to the 5070 and other more "daring" designs, people find it a little too classical and not exciting enough.

As you do, I think (just a guess of course) it is one of the references that will reverse significantly in the future in terms of attactiveness and collectibility (except if the next generation looks like the 5170 and then there will be a competition between which one is the best of the 2. But I doubt they go that route).

I love the 5270 but if I were to buy it, I must say I would have difficulties in deciding that I leave the 5970 aside as I like them both for different reasons :p

You're right to mention the 5496 models. I guess that their design (as the 5159) are less consensual (very straight and more rigid) but they have a lot to offer indeed.

The 3940 is a little small for my taste but has a dial I like very much. The 5140 is more in line with today (less traditional) and from an outsider, might look much more "contemporary" (though still very classical) in terms of style, than the old charm of a more traditional 3940. As always, everything depends on who is looking at it, someone who is deeply into watches, or someone that is entering a Patek shop for the first time to get a watch for a special event and that he will be wearing for 20 years.

Funny what you say about the GP movement as I think exactly the same. It is indeed the first example I have in mind when discussing that subject. At the very beginning, the first dressy watch I liked a lot was the 1966 from GP. I likes its case shape a lot, its dial etc... I remember I especially liked the large caseback's side that was around the movement (proportions people don't like on forums). I never thought it was too small (I was new in watches back then). And I still love that watch, around 9 years after, even with this movement/case proportions.

This is certainly why I feel that a smaller movement/case proportion is not bothering me at all and that our experience make what we think now (what is good and what is not). All about subjectivity.

__________________________

OFF-TOPIC 2

Our perception and especially what I read here and there about the impact of T Stern on the brand is also something we see in a partial way quite often. We say that we don't like what TS is doing, with choosing the most daring references (5524, Nautilus 40th etc...) to make a point. But we largely forget thoughtlessely the ones that are good or very good (subjective but compared to the earlier decades they can look similar in "spirit"): the 5230, 5270 (especially 3rd gen) etc...

I often remember that, when I look at the Patrizzi book for instance, I see many models that didn't age very well. So his predecessors have watches that weren't great hits either!

They are things I try to keep in mind to have the most objective view on watches (as close as possible at least).

The good thing is that any collector or watch lover can go vintage, go 1990's to 2000's or current catalogue watches depending on its tastes. There is an offer for everyone (even if each one would like to see in the catalogue only the watches he likes :p).

__________________________

I know you own several of these reference, thanks for your analytical input Kari on this matter, I think that taking some distance is the best way to enjoy more of our passion in the future.

Have a nice Sunday

Best, Mark

More posts: 1526249939405070511051305140515951705270549655245655970calatravacomplicationsgrand complicationsnautilus

  login to reply