patrick_y
[PuristSPro Moderator]
33553
I hope so...
But, sophistication takes time, sometimes generations, and parents/grandparents to teach you how it was done in the past and more importantly why it was done that way. I can tell a young boy or girl, "you must always eat caviar with a horn or mother of pearl spoon" but if I don't tell them WHY, they'll never appreciate the gravity of importance that statement is.
With the prolific amount of new wealth, the newly monied demographic alone is already more than abundant enough to support these luxury goods companies. Many of these individuals have the means, have seen the marketing, but don't really understand why Patek Philippe (or any other brand) is so special and superior. They buy because they hear that Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin are "The Best" and yet don't understand WHY they're the best. And for those of us like you and me who actually research "WHY" we realize that there are better, like Voutilainen and Dufour. So, when you have that large of a demographic of new-to-watches people who can already consume the entire output, why bother competing with the other brands to be better nor educating the consumer? Educate them too much about movement finishing and those who care end up buying something like a Dufour. So, strategically, if I were the marketing at any company I would come up with some catchy slogan, like "you never actually own it, you merely take care of it for the next generation..."
240Q and 5140 macros
Just some random 240Q and 5140 macros, for no particular reason. ...
Some say this movement is outdated, but I will take over most other automatic movements. Any day of the week..
This watch is core Patek to me. And your macros show it really hold up to close scrutiny. Attention to detail and still maintaining the overall design of slim, elegant and coherent. Yes, I really admire this watch.
Awesome pictures of a great watch! πππ
I love the watch and its movement. VERY Patek. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks! Very interesting to see...
Correct me if I'm wrong (please!) but there appears to be no hand-finishing or polishing of anglage on the movement plates, the sides of dial apertures, or the sides of hands (at a guess, Grand Seiko hands would wipe the floor with these Patek hands). The...
With the volume (Approx. 50,000 - 60,000pa) of watches that Patek is churning out now...
I doubt they can cope with doing "quality" hand finishing on every piece of their movements. And by quality, I mean at the level of certain equivalent Geneva Seal pieces, say a Vacheron Constantin or even a Chopard L.U.C 1.96.
Indeed.
...J was thinking the same thing. Given the quantity they produce, PP has done an amazing job of maintaining their hallowed place in the market. Nonetheless, I was expecting there would be a difference in finishing between your common-or-garden variety 24...
Finishing
Take a look at samwan's macros of his 5370P split seconds chronograph from a few days ago - that movement appears to be better finished than the 240Q movement in the 5140.
Yes it does
As I said above - it seems the minute repeaters and chronograph get the finishing attention... Best E.
How many collectors do even know the meaning of anglage?
Mostly, how many of them are interested in a shining anglage? I guess we both know the answer ;-)
Yep
I have always been saying the movement finish on these Pateks are really just average, Dufour and Credor are on a different level completely. However it would be interesting to see how VCs and APs does it compare to Pateks.
uneven text on the Geneva seal
Great observation! I wonder if perhaps the Geneva Seal is not applied by Patek themselves, but if the movements (or parts thereof) are sent off to the issuing authority and stamped there, then sent back to Patek. I could be wrong on this.
His movement and this watch
Are mind bendingly beautiful! Not to mention your great photography. Thank you for sharing, post more whenever you like
These are really very well taken macro shots!!
May I know what's your macro setup? As in what camera/lens? Light tent? Thanks!
Camera setup
The most important aspect here is good light and of course a camera with macro capabilities. I did not use a light tent, but two lanterns as shown. ...
I paid a look at your pics "for no particlar reason" and...
...WOW I know the reason why I was impressed : they are stunning ! Well done w220 You can come back and post pics whenever you want and you will never need any particular reason for that, just sharing ! Many thanks, Mike
Great pictures.
My question is: Shouldn't the slots of the two screws on the rotor be parallel to each other?
Beautiful photos but I have to say that PP make very
Functional movements without the flair of the Germans...It is quite boring in its precision and wouldnt it be great if they gave clients the option of standard and then maybe a ruthenium finish on others. Just jazz it up a bit instead of churning out deca...
Great photographs! Photos are so good I can see where Patek Philippe has room for improvement!
I'm a big fan of the 5140G and the 240 caliber in general. I've hardly met a 240 caliber watch that I didn't like! The bullnose of the anglage on the 240 caliber has some chatter. Definitely some room for improvement here. Fantastic photos. I can't imagin...
The "chatters" are machining marks that weren't polished out during the beveling process..
My own Patek shows the same sloppy finishing (as shown in photo below): ...
Unfortunately it does... Geneva Seal is really not that hard to meet...
Geneva Seal has nothing about the quality of the execution of the anglage. The Geneva Seal requirements are actually not that difficult to meet. Rolex's million watches a year would meet those requirements if they did just a few medium-sized changes.
Patek literature indicates the PP Seal -- aesthetic perfection
If I find this kind of thing on my watch will they fix it? ...
Catch here is that...
the so called "aesthetic perfection" is not guaranteed under optical magnification... So unless you can see those subpar finishings with your naked eyes, I guess Patek wins.
+1. Also, look at watches from Patek Philippe that are from 2005 and then look at the exact same movement made in 2015. Say a 315 vs a 324...
If you look really closely, the finishing was arguably better in 2005.
Generally no. They will not fix it.
The plates above passes the PP standard. If you are really looking for perfection under magnification, then you'll have to find something a little more expensive. And remember, the "PP Seal" is a self imposed standard that is evaluated internally and grad...
Chatters
Interesting. Wonder why Patek didn't polish those out - I'd think it would not require a very large effort to at least make it somewhat smoother?
Keep in mind you're looking at the thing under high magnification...
The original reason why these would need to be polished is because there's a need to de-burr the edges from tiny metal fibers that could get in the way of the movement's operation. Today's metal technology is so good, that after the metal is CNC drilled, ...
Very well said!
Consumers are getting more well informed these days due to the advent of technology and social media. I believe Patek is realising this.. Their Instagram game however, is a little Johnny come lately.. Well, better late than never..
I hope so...
But, sophistication takes time, sometimes generations, and parents/grandparents to teach you how it was done in the past and more importantly why it was done that way. I can tell a young boy or girl, "you must always eat caviar with a horn or mother of pe...
Here is a closeup of a 315 movement in a Calatrava 5127 - seems that movement has fewer chatters than the 240Q movement in a 5140?
Would think the 240Q movement would be better finished than a run-of-the-mill 315 movement? ...
240Q and 315 SC are same level of finishing...
Although the 240 naturally looks better than the 315 because of the micro rotor.
Actually there might be....
The ones you can't see seems like they are dirty or have many tiny scratches. eg the one at 9/12 o'clock. The plate at 3 o'clock looks like it has "chatter". But the balance cock looks like it has flat polished anglage, instead of the rounded ones with "c...
I see the same ridges also
But I am not sure if the 240 has the same machine polish on the same section of the balance cock like the 324.
Feel free to post a whole new thread! This deserves a whole new thread if you'd like it!
This photo shows Patek Philippe does some amazing polish work and also shows some things could be done even a little bit better. For instance, the plate has some beveled edges, but the beveled edges and beveled sinks aren't polished. The bridges have poli...
If you've got some other macros from other big brands, feel free to post them too, so we can compare!
Always love your photos w220!
