Reading this thread and some other posts, I'll try guessing

Apr 02, 2022,18:41 PM
 

It appears there's downgrading/reduction in technical specifications that is deliberately obfuscated, a deliberate betrayal. Example being the hacking function quietly removed as a running change to a particular caliber. Another example could be using a base-grade movement in a watch that's supposed to be special or limited, for which a premium is charged.
 
The traditional--agreed, expected?--practice is that spec changes can be made, but only to upgrade or improve the function or appearance of the product.  So never the reverse, and this is often noted explicitly.  (Example: "Ming continually aims to improve product where possible to improve aesthetics and functionality; to this end we reserve the right to make minor changes prior to final delivery")
 
When mechanical watch aficionados feel they have been disrespected and hoodwinked by an entity that intentionally hasn't been forthcoming, the perceived treachery inflames them like nothing else.  Hence why it looks like only purists/connoisseurs are enraged by the 'Panerai downgrade' and most other owners aren't railing.  (So far it seems only Panerai has been caught red-handed doing this.  Perhaps if one day it came out that, say, Lange was using IWC parts, the former's snobby clients might be royally offended.)
 
As for the other offenders, their transgressions seem mainly marketing inventions, contortions and excesses, which most everyone takes as a given in the luxury goods industry.  Or, corner-cutting on new items (as opposed to running changes slipped in) without a price explosion.  Or, if there is a spec-down, it's not come to light--yet?--or isn't at the purist level and the customers wouldn't really know better--or care if they did (e.g. the same Carrera reference switching movements from 7750 to its Sellita clone and the caseback going opaque).
 

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Glass houses....

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-11:44
that's where we live nowadays. The social networks phenomenon, has stripped everyone of us of our privacy. Busy bodies can't wait to catch people, companies, so called V.I.P.s red handed and splash them on the pages of every mean of communication there is...  
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I’m sorry to hear that you feel this way about Panerai …

 
 By: Cpt Scarlet : April 2nd, 2022-12:09
Clearly something more is behind this.
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It goes back to Bonati's days....

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-12:23
and I'll leave it at that, since is just matter of personal preferences
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He retired in 2018 !

 
 By: Cpt Scarlet : April 2nd, 2022-12:43
As you are the Panerai Moderator Can I ask why at this point you feel this way ?
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+1. I'm curious as well.

 
 By: patrick_y : April 2nd, 2022-12:49
And Panerai isn't the worse offender. Lots of even worse offenders out there! From small independents to large brands.
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I'm the Panerai moderator....

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-12:52
emeritus :P There are ways and ways to make sure a managing director is always on the right side of the...balance sheet. Let's say that I don't agree with the ones that past and present Panerai's M.D. have chosen. That being said it's their prerogative to... 
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Several topics here.

 
 By: MichaelC : April 2nd, 2022-12:59
Deep stuff. I imagine you don't find the same enjoyment wearing your Panerais as you did 20 years ago.
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I do...

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-13:23
but only because I wear what I consider PANERAI, not concoctions manufactured by Panerai The motto I've lived by (and created few companies from scratch, around it) has always been: I don't want to give them what THEY want. I want them to ask me for what ... 
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Yes. The right mindset indeed! :)

 
 By: InHavenPro : April 2nd, 2022-13:42
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Fully agree!

 
 By: MTR : April 2nd, 2022-13:45
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I agree

 
 By: TeutonicCarFan : April 2nd, 2022-14:56
With regards to the influencer/social media distraction. I like that I can go on an app and see a video to watch reviews and get a better feel for a piece. For example I have no AD (except rolex) in my town so I rely on this. However, when I see people wh... 
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I'm not upset at Panerai's...

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-15:09
CEO and I don't want him to run things the way I would. I simply disagree with what he does and make my choices. No stigma on him but, I spend my money the way I WANT
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Yup

 
 By: TeutonicCarFan : April 2nd, 2022-16:10
If they drive away enough of their loyal supporters once the tides turn and watches aren't as strong on the secondary market they will have a problem. The influencer crowd will dry up, hopefully some of the passionate patrons remain. - Kevin
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The 'Other Side' of the coin is....

 
 By: enjoythemusic : April 2nd, 2022-13:11
The internet has greatly helped many companies. From lower cost in marketing reach to also informing a far higher amount of enthusiasts with ease. Same with building mailing lists, and in communication via a VIP email list. Many independents have greatly ... 
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I L O V E...

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-13:30
Internet. It's how it is utilized by individual people that, on occasions, causes me to scratch my head
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Social media....

 
 By: InHavenPro : April 2nd, 2022-13:49
has, inherently, far more negatives than positives. Primarily the very nature of the business model, but moreover the manner in which the majority of people, given human nature, inevitably end up using those platforms. Enjoythemusic has outlined the poten... 
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You speak to me from the soul, enjoythemusic.

 
 By: MTR : April 2nd, 2022-13:34
It's about transparency and honesty. And just when you really love a brand (and I still like Panerai for many reasons), it must be possible to openly and transparently address and discuss "annoyances“. If not here on this wonderful website, then where?? P... 
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Well said Thomas

 
 By: enjoythemusic : April 2nd, 2022-14:15
>>>it must be possible to openly and transparently address and discuss "annoyances“.<<< Agreed, and we must remember that when it comes to passion, human emotions can follow suit... Am guilty of letting my emotions sometimes get the better of me, so am no... 
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No...shilling please.

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-14:32
be careful when you "promote" companies by name. You might want to do it by private message
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Understood...

 
 By: enjoythemusic : April 2nd, 2022-16:07
And you make an excellent point. Am a journalist so i very much am aware of such things, that yes do happen with YouTubers, influencers, etc. Disclosure: Have no financial interest any timepiece company Am not paid by / no 'favorable' discounts Heck, it's... 
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I good example of how social media works…

 
 By: oyster case : April 2nd, 2022-17:43
response to a post about one company that ends up singing the praises of another, which, surprise, the responder owns a piece from.
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I think that is an example of current Panerai getting it right…

 
 By: oyster case : April 2nd, 2022-20:13
Plus with a lifetime warranty the movement is assured 🙂
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Agreed, and am a big fan of TRON so was sold on it instantly.

 
 By: enjoythemusic : April 2nd, 2022-20:46
The table clock is perfect. I love the materials, the solidity, and the lume makes it easy to read at night. (Very friendly humor) Wait... are we allowed to talk about table clocks on WatchPS? 😊😎
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The internet has helped many watch companies...

 
 By: destrodan : April 2nd, 2022-15:21
...such as Independents, sure, but Independents' current popularity is also partially due to artificial means. When Richemont and Swatch (among others) signaled intention to sell through boutiques and sometimes online direct, rather than bringing in rapid... 
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It is really about TRUST. Transparency is just one way to build trust for brands that don't already have it or, sadly, who have lost it.

 
 By: Fastwong : April 2nd, 2022-16:08
One of my mentors over the years used to like to remind us that retail was simple, people just want to buy things they desire from brands they trust. When a new brand comes on the scene, transparency helps build that trust but realistically that's only on... 
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Do you also not purchase "it takes a year to make a Rolex" Rolex?

 
 By: destrodan : April 2nd, 2022-16:23
What about machine-finished (not hand-finished) Pateks from the early 2000s to today? What about Lange that took shortcuts to finishing on places that the owner doesn't see (not to mention how Glashutte Original has what I consider to be a greater claim t... 
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Exactly! Like I said in the other thread, why are we singling out Panerai?

 
 By: India Whiskey Charlie : April 2nd, 2022-17:26
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I agree with you, IWC.

 
 By: destrodan : April 2nd, 2022-18:08
I don't get it. Perhaps it's partly due to folks not knowing the real history of the watchmaking industry. We're somehow getting scandalized here by common practice and how the Swiss watchmaking Industry has worked for...well for as long as there has been... 
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That may all be true.

 
 By: MTR : April 2nd, 2022-19:36
However, does that mean it's okay if other brands do it, too? The fact that other brands also take trust-damaging measures may be right, but doesn't excuse anything. It's basically about trust, transparency and openness and therefore we should have the sa... 
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I hear you, Thomas - each of us need to determine for ourselves which brands we want to personally trust.

 
 By: destrodan : April 2nd, 2022-20:55
I'm more than open to discussing these topics...that said, folks can't seem to reconcile that almost all (if not all) watch companies have 'revelations' that folks can slay on these pages. It's often based on the fads of the day and time. I've shared befo... 
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Reading this thread and some other posts, I'll try guessing

 
 By: jiggerly-cool : April 2nd, 2022-18:41
It appears there's downgrading/reduction in technical specifications that is deliberately obfuscated, a deliberate betrayal. Example being the hacking function quietly removed as a running change to a particular caliber. Another example could be using a b... 
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+1

 
 By: MTR : April 2nd, 2022-19:38
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A couple of thoughts...

 
 By: destrodan : April 2nd, 2022-20:42
"It appears there's downgrading/reduction in technical specifications that is deliberately obfuscated, a deliberate betrayal." Similar to when it was published years ago that Omega was renaming basic ETA movements found in lower-cost watches as Omega cali... 
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A couple (actually, several) replies...

 
 By: jiggerly-cool : April 3rd, 2022-08:19
Removing a function is a spec downgrade. Stop-seconds is a function, and the direction is to add hacking, not remove. The latest PP Calatravas add it. Brands highlight when their tourbillons have it. One can go on. Thus far, I'm not into Omega, so I can't... 
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Thanks for your reply - hopefully no hard feelings.

 
 By: destrodan : April 3rd, 2022-15:51
I'm not convinced that hacking vs non-hacking is a 'downgrade'. I'll take a non-hacking movement any day that is more robust and accurate over a hand-finished hacking movement that is finicky, not accurate, and in the SPA every few months or years. Others... 
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“We'll end by agreeing to disagree and will hopefully remain virtual WIS friends.”

 
 By: MTR : April 3rd, 2022-16:08
Very nice final statement. ☺️ May I quote Bertolt Brecht additionally: »Wir stehen selbst enttäuscht und sehn betroffen/Den Vorhang zu und alle Fragen offen.« »We ourselves stand disappointed and look concerned/The curtain is closed and all questions are ... 
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Lol, thanks, Thomas.

 
 By: destrodan : April 3rd, 2022-16:15
At the end of the day, we wouldn't be robustly discussing if we didn't care and weren't in a community that cares. So even in disagreement, this is all a good thing.
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Trust is everything.

 
 By: MTR : April 2nd, 2022-19:42
There is no better and more concise way of expressing it! Best Thomas
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Took me a while to read this Pluto / Socrates stuff

 
 By: sirbogey : April 2nd, 2022-17:06
Myself, coming from the early, ok maybe not that early… bought my first Pam in 2002 and many thereafter, I also gave up on that brand years ago. And sold most of them. Although, weirdly, acquired my last Pam 687 when it came out. Nostalgia kicked in? Even... 
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Pluto?

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-20:32
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Socrates' dog

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : April 2nd, 2022-21:34
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I thought of Mickey Mouse :-)

 
 By: sergio : April 2nd, 2022-22:50
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I'm mad at panerai

 
 By: TeutonicCarFan : April 2nd, 2022-19:48
For making the 42mm luminor due with basically no water resistance!
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