galt
148
Journe higher
Jan 03, 2019,17:08 PM
I would put Journe higher.
His approach is different than the others in that he values the movement engineering quite highly relative to some that value finishing to the extreme. That is not to say that is "right or wrong" but that is his approach--and when you buy a Journe or other highly independent watch it is because you like the watchmakers approach. All of those on the list (and many not) are fine watchmakers whether they value finishing or engineering or something else.
I put Journe higher on the list because he has over many years, now, not only produced watches that are uniquely his own--but innovated in terms of the movements in those watches. The Resonance is an icon. His approach to the chronograph via the Centigraphe, the repeater, remontoir, tourbillon, perpetual (Octa Calendar) all all watches that demonstrate something new to movement mechanics. Also, to execute these watches in such a slim case is impressive. He seems to resist the temptation to excessively use the modular approach.
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Top Five Independent Brands?
By: benlee338 : January 3rd, 2019-16:33
I am curious what you guys here think or is there a general consensus what are your top 5 "Independent" brands? By top notch, I mean widely recognized and highly regarded among the independent watch collectors community, superb ( and sometimes out of this...
I mean
By: benlee338 : January 3rd, 2019-21:18
Top 5 existing brands. Dufour is retired.
Journe higher
By: galt : January 3rd, 2019-17:08
I would put Journe higher. His approach is different than the others in that he values the movement engineering quite highly relative to some that value finishing to the extreme. That is not to say that is "right or wrong" but that is his approach--and wh...
I also would rank Journe higher
By: NML77 : January 3rd, 2019-17:39
I appreciate his innovation and while the finishing may not be as exquisite as some of the others it is still beautiful. It’s the combination of technical achievement and excellent finishing that impress me. With that said all the names mentioned are terr...
FP Journe is the perfect independent:
By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : January 3rd, 2019-19:24
-Creative watchmaking genius makes all decisions -Small enough for the above -Yet large enough for boutiques around the world, service centers, has own watchmaking school and... -Big enough to have real vertical integration! FPJ doesn't contract out. This...
Well noted
By: benlee338 : January 3rd, 2019-21:19
However, FPJ design somehow never sing to me. Just personal taste really.
I don't think there's an agreed upon ranking
By: AceOfBase : January 3rd, 2019-18:01
And any ranking would be highly subjective depending on what you choose to prioritize. That being said, I think there's a consensus that the current "holy trinity" of traditional watchmaking consists of Philippe Dufour, Kari Voutilainen, and Roger Smith. ...
+1 [nt]
By: Watchonthewrists : January 4th, 2019-00:39
Correct me if I am wrong
By: benlee338 : January 3rd, 2019-21:20
But Voutilainen doesn't make their own movements or parts? I only heard they are famous for dials.
Kari makes most of the parts for the movement in his workshop....
By: Kid : January 4th, 2019-04:14
aside from ruby and hairspring. Also, he doesn't make his own case despite being able to, stating that his case maker is much better than he is in making cases (they make some of the best cases for chiming timepieces). This was the information I got from ...
My 5
By: Brandon Skinner : January 3rd, 2019-20:46
Sarpaneva for his crazy cool aesthetic Habring2 for their sensibilities and creativity Prescher for his wizardry and beautiful design Asaoka for his ingenuity Journe as an overall package
Easier to discuss than decide
By: jmpTT : January 3rd, 2019-21:20
I have trouble settling on five, to be honest. It becomes an easier question if resale value is your objective proxy for overall brand strength. Dufour, Voutilainen, Journe and (Roger) Smith are sure to show up as consensus picks. Journe isn’t touching Du...
I love this game and I want to stir some controversy.
By: Bounce781 : January 3rd, 2019-21:41
Journe, Gautier, Greubel all have silent commercial partners (AP and Chanel) - so how “truly independent” are they. For me, truly independent means there isn’t anyone else to pick up the tab or prop you up in case of low sales or negative revenues in any ...
But how do you know?
By: galt : January 4th, 2019-10:05
Curious how you know those on your list don't have behind the scenes investors that have a stake in the business in exchange for helping them finance operations?
That’s a good point.
By: Bounce781 : January 4th, 2019-11:35
I can only say, I have not discovered this to be the case and No one in our Purists community has mentioned those indies having commercial investors. Most indies do paid side consulting or design work for big companies to supplement their income (eg Paul ...
Easy to hide a big investor
By: galt : January 4th, 2019-19:34
No judgement hear whether it is good or bad. But given an investment in an independent by anyone may be partly motivated by the cache of said independent there is incentive to keep it under wraps. In fact, a wise thing to do would he to have a non-disclos...
Cheers Spangles.
By: Bounce781 : January 4th, 2019-11:40
Interesting point. But true vertical integration is very rare (if not impossible) for an indie company. Do you mean, vertical integration where EVERYTHING from straps, screws, crystals and movements is done in house? I think that would only leave seiko an...
Thanks!
By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : January 4th, 2019-11:48
Yes, that is what I mean, as long as we don't allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. F.P.Journe is close to vertical integration, making movement plates, dials, cases, etc, themeselves. Jewels, hairsprings, and sapphire casebacks, okay maybe not. ...
He! He!
By: sham1 : January 3rd, 2019-21:42
I did post a similar thread a few years back which has now attracted almost 17,000 views due to its interesting topic My top 5 then after a revision was: Kari Voutilainen, RW Smith, Romain Gauthier, Gronefeld and Philip Dufour As Mr Dufour hardly produces...
👍🏻
By: Bounce781 : January 3rd, 2019-21:56
Ditto 😀
If you ever visited....... [nt]
By: Bruno.M1 : January 3rd, 2019-22:05
Budapest And went to a very small independent... and you saw him at work, saw his tools, talked with him and his wife and ofcourse inspected his watches, you will realise Aaron Becsei (Bexei) should be in this top 5 Very, VERY small but so amazing
I am with you....Bexei!!
By: ant : January 3rd, 2019-23:08
He is such a nice gentleman: modest and approachable but, above all, quiet. That is his biggest 'failing', little ego, no need to prove himself, just massive talent. His few watches are special, each one unique in some way. A true enthusiasts secret!! ...
Wow...
By: benlee338 : January 4th, 2019-05:16
Amazing work.
just to be sure...
By: mahesh : January 3rd, 2019-23:48
PP & Rolex are independent too ;-) i think you miss Kari, Laurent Ferrier. Best, mahesh.,
Yes they are
By: benlee338 : January 4th, 2019-05:17
But they are still large watch brands that churns out tens of thousands ( in Rolex case, nearly a million ) watches a year.
i don't think it matters...independents has a common behaviour...
By: mahesh : January 5th, 2019-00:29
they produce watches they think is the correct one, they don't listen/respond to market needs in general. Rolex & PP does it - they always launch something that leaves the market to look forward to 'what next' Best, mahesh.,
For me it would be very hard to choose a top five of Indie brands .
By: Watchonthewrists : January 4th, 2019-00:49
Your five brands are for sure one of the best but like others mentioned Kari V , Vianney H , H Moser , DeBethune , Urwerk , MB&F , Roger W S. And some more are amazing brands too , its all what you like and what your feeling is with a brand imho
Number ONE without any doubt is for me Gruebel Forsey
By: Maltie : January 4th, 2019-01:26
Look at their numerous inventions, patents and innovations and prestigious awards. Not a single other watchmaker has reached this level. Most are playing the card of finishing techniques or dials. GF is different in all aspects and for me the number ONE o...
Why is GF not a indie brand ? [nt]
By: Watchonthewrists : January 4th, 2019-02:04
FPJ has also sold 20% of his stock to Chanel . Still a indie brand imho . 20% isnt going to give you the power of the company to tell them which way to go i think . its Just a financial injection imo and a collab for there knowledge and knowhow
Well, I was also expressing my opinion.
By: Bounce781 : January 4th, 2019-02:32
But as soon as you have an investor or financial partner (1% or 20%), they get a say in how you run, what products you develop, etc. Even if they are a silent partner, they are “invested” in your success and will not look kindly to failure. GF and FPJ are...
No, FPJ is truly independent.
By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : January 4th, 2019-11:38
This is a good article to understand better: thejourneguy.com And this one: thejourneguy.com So, you see it is quite different than you might expect!
If I am not wrong..
By: benlee338 : January 4th, 2019-05:24
Chanel also bought a stake in Romain Gauthier. Frankly, I don't like these fashion brands having any association in Haute Horology. Kinds of cheapens it.
I would encourage you to read more about Chanel's association with FPJourne
By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : January 4th, 2019-11:36
You'll find it's not what you think. In fact, Chanel is strengthening the independence of FPJ. Further, from the very beginning, FPJ has had silent investors, something that is no secret. This move assures independence, nothing less. This is a good articl...
To my taste, Haldimann belongs in that list
By: donizetti : January 4th, 2019-03:03
in his focus on truly handmade independent watches he is right up there with Dufour and Smith although his style and focus with regard to finishing is of course very different. But he certainly hits my sweet spot ... And Vianney Halter, although I have ne...
My top 5.
By: Dmitriy : January 4th, 2019-03:13
1. Roger W. Smith 2. Bexei 3. Gronefeld 4. Romain Gauthier 5. Ochs und Junior.
++1!! (nt)
By: Ronald Held : January 5th, 2019-12:59
NT
Independent watchmakers over independent brands.
By: Watch_time_it_is : January 4th, 2019-23:47
For me, independent watchmakers as much as independent brand is important. And at a time in their careers when they "benched" their own work, which I suspect the names on the doors of many of the independent brands don't actually do anymore themselves. Th...
Fully agree with you 👍🏻🤗
By: Watchonthewrists : January 5th, 2019-01:21
To have met the watchmaker of your watch is a extra bonus for me . It gives an extra dimension and feeling to your watch Imho .
Pls share your opinion and feedback
By: ialienam_AUS : February 15th, 2019-19:53
Guys opinion needed Been looking into independent for a few months, and recently met a top collector in person. He made some suggestions so I have narrowed down my list (he was telling me to start from GPHG list) 1. Urban Jurgensen - P8 movement 2. kari v...
Thanks
By: ialienam_AUS : February 16th, 2019-17:05
Yes I like Roger Smith 3 hands with power reserve too! Is it possible to customise it as I prefer breguet numerals which is something I don’t have in my collection.