cazalea
[Seiko Moderator]
20970
Thank you Patrick for this adventurous introduction to Adventurine
Perhaps a few details might extend the conversation in more directions. Of course we all know of the fabulous dial (and case) decorations created in the past few years by P-P, JLC and others. But it's a very very old art.
Wikipedia suggests:
Here is a box around 1000 years old with enamel work over gilded copper. The more colors, the more expensive and difficult the process is, since each color is fired in a separate process.
Here's a wrist bracelet with semi-precious stone used in place of enamel.
Vitreous enamel, also called porcelain enamel, is a material made by fusing powdered glass to a substrate by firing, usually between 750 and 850 °C (1,380 and 1,560 °F). The powder melts, flows, and then hardens to a smooth, durable vitreous coating. The word comes from the Latin vitreum, meaning "glass".
Enamel can be used on metal, glass, ceramics, stone, or any material that will withstand the fusing temperature. In technical terms fired enamelware is an integrated layered composite of glass and another material (or more glass).
Cloisonné is an ancient technique for decorating metalwork objects with colored material held in place or separated by metal strips or wire, normally of gold. In recent centuries, vitreous enamel has been used, but inlays of cut gemstones, glass and other materials were also used during older periods; indeed cloisonné enamel very probably began as an easier imitation of cloisonné work using gems. The resulting objects can also be called cloisonné. Decoration is formed by first adding compartments (cloisons in French) to the metal object by soldering or affixing silver or gold as wires or thin strips placed on their edges. These remain visible in the finished piece, separating the different compartments of the enamel or inlays, which are often of several colors. Cloisonné enamel objects are worked on with enamel powder made into a paste, which then needs to be fired in a kiln. If gemstones or colored glass are used, the pieces need to be cut or ground into the shape of each cloison.
Here's a new piece made in England a few years ago by a friend of mine, sitting in an abalone shell (mother of pearl)
This is the oldest known piece of cloisonné jewelry!
Cazalea
WPS Facts and Opinions: Aventurine Dials and Are They Worth It?
Moderator Patrick_y sheds some light on a dark material and explains what aventurine is made of. Aventurine dials are starting to become a thing. In 2018 at SIHH, we saw an explosion of Aventurine when Lange, Parmigiani Fleurier, and Van Cleef & Arpel...
The watch companies read these forums.
The watch companies harvest information off these forums. Product managers looking for their next source of inspiration often come here for ideas and to get an idea of what collectors want.
Thank you Patrick for this adventurous introduction to Adventurine
Perhaps a few details might extend the conversation in more directions. Of course we all know of the fabulous dial (and case) decorations created in the past few years by P-P, JLC and others. But it's a very very old art. Wikipedia suggests: Vitreous enam...
Here's an enameled piece that I own
It's roughly 200 years old, from Russia - cast then fired at least 6 different times, one for each color. Cazalea ...
A kind of ceramic
Aventurine how you describe it could be a kind of ceramic stuff. Maybe aventurine could be used for basels either. I never seen such a aventurine dial in flesh, but here there must be friends with that watches which contain aventurine.
Ceramic and glass share many similarities! Biggest difference is that ceramic comes from clay, glass comes from sand.
Take a look at a nice aventurine dial when you get a chance!
Hmm...I thought for ALS, their process is not Aventurine...
They described it as Copper/Gold flux sprinkles on the dial, some 1500th old Venice techniques? At least this is what is for the Saxonia copper Blue as pictured, not sure about the new LL1.
Yes, your description is consistent with aventurine.
It's a thousand plus year old Italian glass technique that either comes from Murano or Venice. Copper is a common substrate used to color glass (for instance Auric aka. gold can turn glass purple) and metallic flakes are added to the glass to get the glit...
Two types of aventurine...
There's natural aventurine. Watch dials are not made of natural aventurine (which is naturally green, although it is possible to get natural blue aventurine, natural blue aventurine is never this deep blue color). Watch dials are made of "glass aventurine...
I simply love aventurine dials and personally cannot understand why these beautiful and inspiring dials are not more prevalent.
I use my watches as „meditation devices“ by just looking at the dials for a few minutes. The effect would be even bigger with an aventurine dial but I am not brave enough to wear a watches with any kind of glitter on it.
It's very restrained. And since it's not on the case, you'll be alright!
And most aventurine dialed watches are mostly evening/dressier watches. So they're less likely to be every-day pieces. And diamonds on a case are much more easily seen than diamonds on a dial. So I think you'll be okay!
I'm always happy when I learn something new.
Thanks for the educational post. I haven't yet seen one in the flesh yet, but will may more attention now after reading this. Thanks, Imran
You're most welcome!
A lot of watch collectors have assumed it was a stone. And I first thought it was a type of terrazo (concrete with large rock chips/flakes). So I thought I'd set the record straight!
You are welcome my friend!
Thank you for commenting! I'm thinking about lapis lazuli dials and malachite dials too! Those are "genuine" and "au natural" materials!
I definitely like the material
Perhaps a brand like Anordain will offer a more affordable entry point to aventurine at some point down the road. I would be interested.
Great topic
Really love a Aventurine dial . Many great brands have beautiful models with this amazing dial
Indeed!
Which one is your favorite? The Lange and the Parmigiani above are the two I really liked when I saw them at SIHH 2018.
Here are two i would love to add at some point.
The CvdK reall moon The Czapek Quai des Bergues ...
Excellent article Patrick, thank you!
How would you compare Aventurine and Enamel in the way it is used on the moonphase of the JLC Reverso Nonantième : the gold plate has stars of different sizes sticking out of the "bath" of enamel (see photo below). The result could be rather similar. I wo...
That would be cool!
Aventurine would add greater thickness, since it needs the metal substrate as a backing for a dial. And the aventurine itself needs to be of a certain thickness or else it won't withstand shock and vibration. So for the sake of reliability and simplicity,...
Aventurine dials are so romantic and beautiful !
I love these aventurine dials they remind me incredible moments… ...
Beautiful photos...
Looking at your photos reminded me of aventurine dials and Rolls-Royce car ceilings! The world's most expensive car company also has a car ceiling with a "starry night" display using fiber optic lights!
There is also aventurine that is a natural stone...
...probably not what watch manufacturers are using, but it does exist in a natural state.
Absolutely! It does. In green and in blue.
But it doesn't have the "starry night" feature that this glass aventurine has.
If someone likes it great!
But this could end up being dated like the lapis lazuli dials of the 1970s
You're right. Right now, there's a huge trend for blue dials. But that may not last. Call me weird, I still like those Lapis Lazuli and Malachite dials of the 1970s.
I still stare at Piaget timepieces with those dials every now and then.
Great post! I would be most interested how ALS handled their blue aventurine.
Glass can be easily cold-worked using lapidary techniques. Drilling holes or machining openings can be done with diamond coated tooling. However, I would probably use a laser to modify the blank. Germany has a strong glass heritage. Reichenbach, Kugler an...
If a company didn't develop their own in-house capability, they could always source expertise from Groh+Ripp or Daniel Haas to fashion the dials.
Whatever path is taken, the total project cost has to be amortized over few products. Additionally, the watch company has to buy stock to hold as spares for future replacements. There is a cost to carry inventory. So, how many spares should ALS have for o...
You are absolutely right!
There is some greater risk, although with ALS, the servicing is done so well that you don't have to worry too much. Especially if you live in the USA, Mr. Alkis is top notch! I don't know how many spare dials ALS has, but they will generally have a set nu...
Excellent article, Patrick. I didn't know that about Aventurine. I can add a picture of a red aventurine dial.
This Jaeger Lecoultre was issued in 2015. ...
Beautiful piece! This aventurine comprises more copper to get the brown hue.
The blue hue is achieved by reducing the copper and adding small amounts of cobalt.
Thank you for reading!
It makes it more interesting to me that you enjoyed reading it! I can't cook very well (the pasta can go from undercooked to overcooked in about 60 seconds, it's hard to get pasta perfectly al dente), but when people enjoy my very mediocre cooking, it mak...
Great article...
agreed it depends on the piece and not about if it is "worth it" since it is artificial. How it is applied and whether the outcome is attractive to a potential buyer.
Indeed. Worth is a very subjective matter.
Thank you for the kind words! And thank you for reading!
Great article...AP has also invested in Aventurine as of late...
And I can share that it’s probably my favorite dial in the collection. Funny also how AP uses a mini Aventurine dial to reflect the moon phase too. Cheers! Peter ...
I didn't know that! Good to know!
Good to know that the moonphase disc is also made of aventurine! Very cool detail!
Indeed. I think for several perpetual models...
Per the below - nice contrast to the grey dial... ...
Ah, you beat me to it! "The twins" from the 1970s ...
Who said watches were smaller back then? ...
Thank you for reading and commenting too!
It's a pleasure to share facts with our readers! We are all too often too believing of the implications made by marketing departments. Those marketing department help us make incorrect assumptions all the time. It's nice to find out what something actuall...
Thanks for the great article Patrick
I am a fan of well done aventurine dials and definitely learned something new today. A good aventurine dial always makes the watch more romantic. My two favourites are from Lange. ...