Blancpain

An interesting article just published on perezcope! Link to the article (Hope posting the link doesn't break the forum rules!) ...  

This is great stuff from a historical perspective. Perezscope articles on the histories of old watches are the gold standard for vintage collectors and authors writing on the topic. I know I'll update my YouTube videos with full credit to include the corr... 

Cheers, HSTE

Jeffrey Kingston, Esq. is a gentleman collector who is fed information from the brands' historical departments and marketing/PR departments - and he generally reasonably assumes it is true and relies upon it. We cannot fault Kingston for being off a few y... 

Felt more like 15 years, but I'm not counting that precisely.

Well... Even the experts can make mistakes. Here on WPS, we've had to make a retraction every now and then. So I wouldn't be too harsh on Jeffrey Kingston. BUT YES! One should look at it this way - can we really trust experts whom are almost solely dedica... 

As a buyer of the new titanium FF Bathyscaphe that I bought from my AD in Zurich and in consideration of the outstanding quality and movement finishing of the watch (better than what I have seen in the sub-50k CHF range at Patek or Vacheron) AS WELL AS th... 

You bought it on the premise that the facts were accurate, and now these facts are in question. Naturally, you're upset. Very fair.

...we are doomed by those who write history incorrectly. So perhaps correcting things now gives a sharper, more honest perspective for those writing today. I very much look forward to a deep-dive investigation into the 1960's marketing for three brands. S... 

The biggest platforms write their versions of history. And now it's whomever has Search Engine Optimization done best who writes the definitive version of history - since it's the version most people would've read!

I suspect Jose exhausted most of what's available to reach his conclusions. Big stuff like the history of the American Civil War is easier to document because of the huge number of original writings left by the participants. The history of the Fifty Fatho... 

It's nice to see Rolex gettting props for what is rightfully their achievement.

...it was actually only water resistant to forty fathoms. But 'Fifty' rhymes with 'Nifty' so they went with that instead...

This is just annoying Rolex fanboying.

no one would seriously dive with either watch anyways… it’s like trying to fly cross country in a biplane

And as Jose said, the first true diving watch was the Ref 2533, from 1935 / 36. A Rolex, which announced the Radiomir with wire lugs we well know. The first modern diving watch certainly is the Rolex, 6204 or 6200 that I don't know. Indeed, Blancpain didn... 

… since it refers to a claim not made. Blancpain refers to the Fifty Fathoms being created in 1953, not launched to the public in 1953. The author himself creates the windmill he then wants to fight heroically. And he plays skillfully with facts, words, i... 

claims the 1953 "launch" on its website. Cheers Marc

… in the Fifty Fathoms documentary movie Jean-Jacques Fiechter himself speaks about having created the FF in 1953. A debate about which expression is used at what time in what publication doesn’t help. Over many years the birth year of the FF was specifie... 

just one too many. This is not semantics.

Just Google "fifty fathoms launched 1953 site:/" and the first result is landing.blancpain.com Here is the screenshot, just in case this webpage is gone or edited in future. Not going to argue what "launched" really means here, but literally "laun...  

I did before I wrote my comment.

I'm inclined to believe Jose's article unless Blancpain has some kind of documentation, patent application, or photos we haven't seen yet. Based on the sparse evidence available, the Perezscope conclusions seem sound. Blancpain's management and marketing ... 

Really like the work from Perezscope and while this article seems extra angry, some great points are made. However, need to include context, Rolex was (is) the king of marketing so while this might prove Rolex was right there in the running in 1953, I'm n... 

...when the reality hasn't been nearly as clear. Rolex has mostly suggested its watches were "part" of the conquest of Everest - it pitches the Explorer with images of mountains, copy about climbing, photos of Hillary and Norgay holding Rolex watches give... 

"Congratulations to the British Everest Expedition - Rolex - 7 Times on Everest. Finally to the Top!" - June 2nd 1953 Without the benefit of all the other details around the expedition and smith's own statements a reasearcher finding the headline above in... 

… and even the article delivers it. This letter proves that Lieutenant Riffaud received his watch around February 1954. Let’s be real: how can you ask for more evidence that the Fifty Fathoms was in existence well before that date of Feb 1954? If only peo...  

This in particular is what made Perezscope's article feel biased since it seems to at times mix public launch vs creation/existence. This was , clearly both watches existed in some form in 1953, there's a gray area around public launch which is separate f... 

"This letter proves that Lieutenant Riffaud received his watch around February 1954." No, it doesn't! The letter states the watches were in use since one year which probably includes the testing phase. While I think it's possible that Maloubier and Riffau... 

"He conveniently leaves out that Blancpain in fact held the patent for exactly that bezel." Hey my German friend, can you point me to the patent for the unidirectional bezel pls? Cheers Jose

Even early 1970s No Rad FFs had bezels that could be turned both ways. Cheers Jose

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well written and believe it would've benefited from some toning down, I'm left convinced Jose is presenting the facts here. And while I appreciate Tim's insights, I think watchmakers can, and should, be held accountable for how they present their history ... 

He looks like he's a very respected menber of the horological community judging by the comments I read here so maybe he can share something with us, directly if he's a member here or by a third person he trusts if he's not. Just my opinion, nothing more n... 

I assumed that in this thread, we were considering only watches that embody the format of a modern diver with a timing bezel and a screw-down crown. If highly water resistant watches like the Rolex 2533 and the Panerais now are divers, how do we rank or a...  

As always I go by the presented facts, not what it could’ve been… And here we are presented with (existing) documents that the crown was first, something I suspected for a long time but not relevant enough for me to dig deeper, however the message and con... 

They need to let people buy watches at retail!!

apps.dtic.mil

According to Jose's article "the first Submariner batch was produced in the second quarter of 1953", whereas in the public Fifty Fathoms exhibit () one of the earliest examples of a Blancpain FF (branded LIP) is exhibited which was also manufactured in 19... 

In February 1953, Rolex applied for a rotating bezel, the operation of which provided for a wider range than diving. In the patents CH312285 and CH305177 cited in the article, there are no lines about diving at all. This is due to the fact that initially ...  

Rolex adapted the bezel from Turn-o-Graph for the Submariner, whereas Rayville (Blancpain) conceived it specifically for diving.

What i didn't realize was the history and timing potentially connected to the turn-o-graph which helps connect the dots. Thank you!

Speaking of historical footprints, in an interview with Europa Star in 1964, Rolex director and passionate diver René-Paul Jeanneret stated the following: “La première montre Rolex “Submariner” fut créée en 1951. Je fus d’ailleurs le premier à l’expérimen... 

Europa Star 1964, # 26 | 2/6 watchlibrary.org ...  

Grasping for straws much?

There is a common misconception that the Rolex Turn-o-Graph preceded the Submariner and was presented in 1953. In reality, the Submainer was produced before the Turn-o-Graph (2.53 vs. ). The first batches of both models have case numbers in the 949,xxx ra... 

It has a special design for deep-sea swimming and, like the Turn-o-graph, is equipped with a bezel for recording time. This "like the Turn-o-graph" shows that for Rolex, the rotating bezel was of a wide profile, and was originally developed for civilian w... 

There is zero info about diving in the Rolex patents because they didn't want to tip off anyone about what they were working on. It's game over my friend but of course, you and all the Blancpain fans are free to believe whatever you want.

more than 20 years after the Blancpain patent in 1954 for a uni-directional bezel (which it's argued, probably to good measure, to be used for specifically for diving). I am not saying the Fifty Fathoms was the first "modern divers' watch" (how do you def... 

modern diver's watch so really open to interpretation ..