cazalea
[Seiko Moderator]
19596
Watches generally go ‘round
Rotating is a nice smooth motion, compared to retrograde or jumping motions. Hands that fly back every minute, day, week, month are more troublesome. Energy has to be stored and the released, then absorbed on the other end when the hand stops. Rotating (in one direction) does not exert such forces.
I’m thinking of some GG or Roger DuBuis models now. 
Chiming and repeating watches add extra mechanisms that store energy, count intervals, release the energy into a hammer, beat onto a chime, then reset.
Watchmakers have enough trouble fixing regular watches much less these quirky ones. Thus they don’t want their apprentice buying trouble and wanting it fixed for free, or asking how to fix it.
Cazalea
How to help a brand?
Instead of looking from the depreciation angle which we know it's not positive and may cause bias opinions, maybe violating forum rules...How about we turn the table and ask we collectors (not clueless ones, like me) what we like, and can help brands from...
GF finishing is spectacular...
...but their offerings are too damn big, even for my 7.25" wrist. They are also monstrously expensive, which doesn't bother many here. I would love for GF (or F. Berthoud) to make a reasonably-sized, exquisitely-finished, time-only watch for less than $10...
I think GF heard you....they just released a wearable 39mm watch recently...
Very curious for the descendants of GP, how they feel, seeing their great great ancestors built a name and it's diminishing...I give the benefit of the doubt the watchmakers are proud of their work, and they went through the schools, study and worked hard...
Their 'cheap' Signature 1...
...is still $170k or so, and the Balancier Contemprain is $200k so no bargains here, even though they are reasonably sized...
Someone has to pay for the business overheads and salaries 🤣
No economies of scale but price of exclusivity....and in a wealthy world that we lived in today, many will thrive
I don't think there's anything that looks particularly off here...
First and foremost, people generally want watches that they can wear and look attractive on the wrist. As cool as the GP is, I don't think many people are going to want to wear a 48mm complication behemoth. And 75k is still a ton of money for a pre-owned ...
The complications arm of GF designed this particular GP.
Need to see in person re finishing and unwearable but unquestionably uber cool movement.
Oh wow....that's news and good to know.
They (GP) should probably advertised or mentioned it somewhere... Oh dear, I just promoted the Marketing factor
Well, it is tricky isn't it ... The major point of such complications is to show the horological prowess of GP.
They don't make money from the watches, the watch is a marketing tool itself. GF also designed the VC sonnerie. Not something VC was willing to advertise ... I have to say I have no problem with such "collaborations". It is how both british and swiss watc...
HW Opus series are very successful...
These brands should capitalize on the win-win strengths and not be wary about it. Ultimately individual master watchmakers can jump ship and bring along their expertise...don’t think watch brands has any special IP or skills that they can protect against....
GFs are not small either...Officine Panerai has their fans too.
I agree it's still expensive but I will be pissed and depressed if I'm the original owner, assuming paid retail, well...I'm sure he'll get a discount at most 20% but still...lost a house Well, maybe he/she doesn't care with lots of disposable income but.....
The "credit" came to me this way from my watch mentor "Never buy a GP or a Minute Repeater"
When I asked why "Because I told you not to." Just like a parent! Which he was in a watchmaker sort of way. And when I ignored the advice and bought one, I found out what he was trying to say. Lots of tiny minuses with a few pluses equaled it went to a ne...
Haha....Phew, my post passed a Mod review ...Thanks for deleting 20 empty lines :)
I learnt my lessons too with 3 GPs and at that time, I was happy and thought I got a Great deal, only to find out with a rude awakening when I try to trade them. Like yourself, I've since moved on because I cannot justify to my "boss" I want or need this ...
On the flip side of this...
Why not just buy pre-owned, wouldn't the loss be minimal in that case?
Reliability and loss of value? Any of other reasons?
With the MR, servicing can be an additional issue, I suppose.
I would assume each one passes the same Quality test or specs for reliability?
It should not be different from eg. 1000hrs on a Master Control Time Only or PC or MR. I also think many of us who buy watches don't give much thought about servicing or it's cost, because I, for one, never send in unless it's broken....maybe I don't own ...
Watches generally go ‘round
Rotating is a nice smooth motion, compared to retrograde or jumping motions. Hands that fly back every minute, day, week, month are more troublesome. Energy has to be stored and the released, then absorbed on the other end when the hand stops. Rotating (i...
You missed a Retrograde master watch brand....
Consider and entering Maurice Lacroix 😂
If you want to buy a GP, buy the right ones
I don't think anyone has paid full, discount is more than a mere 20% IMHO ...
Good to know...
Don’t get me wrong, GP makes nice watches, quite innovative. You get 20% but in the unfortunate event I need to unload, I am offer 20-30% of the 80% I paid for, not going to work for my financial situations. I said it because I don’t think the love for a ...
I will say that "unwearable watches" that are extremely large, are always difficult to sell.
Your list of criteria is very thorough. And very complete. But sometimes a watch just has to have a cool design. And some crazy social media influencers who wear the watch definitely helps it out too! Remember when Chanel J12 watches were a thing?
Haha....crazy social media influencers 👍🏻🤣
Cool is subjective too....noticed newer Hublots and RM are similar but huge differences in fate too....I wonder what didn’t go well with Hublot, even though they collaborated with Ferrari, just like RM with racing. And don’t forget, what happened to Jacob...
Hublot does very well in Miami, South America, Spain, and Portugal.
It's not something we realize unless you read the financial reports or understand the trends. I dug a little more and I found that a lot of Latin movie stars are big on Hublot, hence why the brand is very popular among Spanish and Portuguese speaking popu...
Ah ok.... I’m clueless about that...
Many times I don’t or able to see things from many perspective or the real big picture... Just like the ancient Chinese story of 4 blind person being ask what an elephant looks like....
I've seen Hublots more often than many other brands.
Most people want watches that are both attractive and sporty/casual. Branding is of course a factor too but it is overplayed a little I think. I'm sure most people would take a Hublot over an AP Millenary or Patek Golden Ellipse despite their higher brand...
Are they real? Of course that’s another question but I agree and see your point.
Like a pyramid, target audience is also different. Well, we know it’s a business, dollars and cents but better labeled and interesting.
What can we do?
I would say keep on buying watches. What is a way to get people in action to spend money buying watches? Lucky that celebreties showing their watches. Maybe manufacturers can try to ask money for watches, instead of giving free watches. AD networks, servi...
You have a point about the AD networking and servicing locations...
The pandemic has accelerated the online e-commerce platform as can be seen from WOS financial results. Many brands have started their own online boutique sales channel and big watch corporations are buying in pre-owned watch companies to expand their reac...
I don't know anything about GP but if the product quality is there as you say it is, then this is imho all a brand marketing problem....
You mentioned a lot of potential factors but I think these all roll up into poor brand marketing. Luxury brands for anything, bags, watches, coffee machines, once the base level of product quality is there to play with the big boys, everything else is bra...
Thank you Fastwong for the detail and valuable insights...
The one factor I listed as a disconnection to the watchmaking is yet one of the most important...how clueless can I not be, lol.... I read a lot of watch blogs online so I kind of know a little here and there of the happenings around this industry. Market...
LOL, no worse than beer goggles :P Everything is the emperor's new clothes sadly. Marketing has taken the place of education and consumers are LESS sophisticated than ever
Remember that magazine consumer reports? Gone, critical reviews are too long and too boring for how we consume content today. Critical thinking and thoughtful purchasing has been replaced by paid influencers and bought media. Emotional buying rather than ...
Agreed! It is not possible to help brands as long as there is massive herd behavior by "investors" that leads to market bubbles
And watches are not a smart investment as you cannot trade them like public shares - either you are by profession a watch dealer or you are a collector who earns his/her money otherwise (which will then be spend in any joyful activity).
Difficult and interesting question!
I completley agree and feel the exact same way about other brands like Julien Coudray, I love their work and am so worried that they may falter! I honestly feel that, while some may find it downgrading, they should start a patreon page, especially the sma...
The first photo of that JC is my type of watch too, looks great...
And honestly I’m not familiar with this brand and that brought up a point by FastWong above that if we don’t have much info about this brand, it really is hard to venture into them. The GFs are not low prices, even at aftermarket, you might be mistaken......
Agree on btoh fronts
JC is def also my kind of watch but no one knows about them and I def think that it has to do with a combination of marketing (as Fastwong said) and spreading the word out. I think that in terms of the later, Mortiz Grossman, while not having the extensiv...
I know right and no worries!
it is super ironic tho that you posted this just when that happened! do you have a sixth sense?
I damn wished I have the sense to know what’s the next powerball winning numbers....just once!
Maybe I should call Maxwell Lord 😅
Has anyone ever been heard to say, "Let's go see the new . . .
. . . David Niven . . . . . . movie?" Obviously, not in the last four decades, but in the four before . . . did anyone see a film because Niven was in it? Probably not. John Wayne? Yes, people certainly said, "Let's go see the new John Wayne movie." Cary ...
In my culture, we just call this “Fate”, “Destined” or “Born to be”
You’re right, Art, many times there are just no explanation for the happenings. We would assume identical twins who almost born at the same time should have similar fate but each has their own destination. The world is so fascinating.
There's no doubt in my mind which of these two watches is the more attractive: the GP.
But GP is in a difficult spot. It's not as large or as relatively insulated from financial turbulence as PP or Rolex. PP can take a 20% decline in YoY sales and battle through. At the same time GP is not as niche as GF and other small independents who ope...
I am also in the same camp to prefer the GP as well...
Just the size of 48mm in this case, literally, is hard to pull off. One of the power house PP is know to create ultra thin and wearable watches with grand complications, and I believe if GP have the resources, they can study how other brands become succes...
Can I also add a word of thanks to the OP for this post?
It's far more interesting that post after post of wrist shots and the platitudes that follow. I enjoy WPS for the critical engagement that it generates, and the education that comes with it.
You’re very welcome, appreciate your acknowledgment....
Actually if the community can come together, we might be a force to be reckoned with Thank you 🙏🏻