How to help a brand?

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-09:34

Instead of looking from the depreciation angle which we know it's not positive and may cause bias opinions, maybe violating forum rules...How about we turn the table and ask we collectors (not clueless ones, like me) what we like, and can help brands from staying interesting?

I feel for this brand....they make great watches, long history and many icons but why such fate?

Photo credit: Betteridge

On the other hand....

Photo credit: ebay

Highly praised, respected, well maybe suffer a little but still not as drastic as the other brand above. 

Why is there so much difference in the aftermarket fate for similar watches?

What/How can the other brands do the RIGHT thing, with respect to being what collectors want?

Few things come to mind:
- Heritage? - How many brands can beat since 1731?
- Brand? - Maybe? Like the oohs and aahs, like owning a higher end brand with respect? Well, GP is not a small or new brand...
- Complication? - It is highly complicated but then seems not helping...
- Size? I think both are big watches...
- Rarity? - I think the one above is rare enough but still ...
- Finishing? - This has always been a huge factor for collectibility and talk of the town. I don't think the GP finishing is sub-par for this Haute Horology piece...
- Marketing? - Then this is a disconnection which I think doesn't do justice to the skills, technical powers of watchmaking
- Auction? - Seems like collectors pay huge attentions to these as a guide as to what to buy, more are paying attention to Auctions nowadays that has steered the watch collecting habit
- Supply and Demand? Well, at these level of complication, the demand is for the top 1% so I assume it's equal? Maybe I'm wrong....
- What else? What am I missing?

Maybe that's the beauty with this hobby or any hobby, always 2 sides, and for those who love some brands...this is the best that can happen...some other's trash is some other's treasure, someone's loss is another's gain.

That's the Balance and goes on, moves on.

I just feel for the watchmakers or employees of some brands who didn't get the stardom or recognition for their work...imagining the same amount of dedication and love put in by the watch makers, employees.

PS: MODs, feel free to remove this post if not appropriate. Thank you.

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This message has been edited by cazalea on 2021-02-17 10:55:11

GF finishing is spectacular...

 By: mdg : February 17th, 2021-10:01
...but their offerings are too damn big, even for my 7.25" wrist.

They are also monstrously expensive, which doesn't bother many here.

I would love for GF (or F. Berthoud) to make a reasonably-sized, exquisitely-finished, time-only watch for less than $100,000.

That is something I could stretch for...something that would be within reach for many more enthusiasts.

It would broaden the appeal of these boutique brands tremendously.

But if they already sell everything they make at astronomical prices, maybe there's no point...

Sorry for the tangential mini-rant : )

As to GP, they have slipped through the cracks. The Laureato is an attractive watch, but is somehow the red-headed step child of SS sport watches.

I don't know if it's a lack of advertising (awareness) or the quality of the product itself.

Your 'auction' note is interesting. Perhaps GP needs to be buying up legacy pieces at inflated prices to bolster their perceived value.

I think GF heard you....they just released a wearable 39mm watch recently...

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-10:18
Very curious for the descendants of GP, how they feel, seeing their great great ancestors built a name and it's diminishing...I give the benefit of the doubt the watchmakers are proud of their work, and they went through the schools, study and worked hard too.

Their 'cheap' Signature 1...

 By: mdg : February 17th, 2021-14:05 still $170k or so, and the Balancier Contemprain is $200k so no bargains here, even though they are reasonably sized...

Someone has to pay for the business overheads and salaries 🤣

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-14:07
No economies of scale but price of exclusivity....and in a wealthy world that we lived in today, many will thrive smile

I don't think there's anything that looks particularly off here...

 By: jleno : February 17th, 2021-10:06
First and foremost, people generally want watches that they can wear and look attractive on the wrist. As cool as the GP is, I don't think many people are going to want to wear a 48mm complication behemoth. And 75k is still a ton of money for a pre-owned watch, even if it is highly complicated, especially from a more niche brand like GP. I'm assuming GF might do a little better with regards to resale value because they cater specifically to the market for watches like these.

Btw, the GP is incredible and I'd probably take it over the GF :)

 By: jleno : February 17th, 2021-10:15
No message body

The complications arm of GF designed this particular GP.

 By: als1678 : February 17th, 2021-11:30
Need to see in person re finishing and unwearable but unquestionably uber cool movement.

Oh wow....that's news and good to know.

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-11:32
They (GP) should probably advertised or mentioned it somewhere...
Oh dear, I just promoted the Marketing factor sad

Well, it is tricky isn't it ... The major point of such complications is to show the horological prowess of GP.

 By: als1678 : February 17th, 2021-11:46
They don't make money from the watches, the watch is a marketing tool itself. GF also designed the VC sonnerie. Not something VC was willing to advertise ...

I have to say I have no problem with such "collaborations". It is how both british and swiss watch industry worked for centuries. PP for example used to go to AP for their repeaters ...

HW Opus series are very successful...

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-13:21
These brands should capitalize on the win-win strengths and not be wary about it.
Ultimately individual master watchmakers can jump ship and bring along their expertise...don’t think watch brands has any special IP or skills that they can protect against.

GFs are not small either...Officine Panerai has their fans too.

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-10:15
I agree it's still expensive but I will be pissed and depressed if I'm the original owner, assuming paid retail, well...I'm sure he'll get a discount at most 20% but still...lost a house sad
Well, maybe he/she doesn't care with lots of disposable income know what I mean.

The "credit" came to me this way from my watch mentor "Never buy a GP or a Minute Repeater"

 By: cazalea : February 17th, 2021-10:54
When I asked why "Because I told you not to."  Just like a parent! Which he was in a watchmaker sort of way.

And when I ignored the advice and bought one, I found out what he was trying to say. Lots of tiny minuses with a few pluses equaled it went to a new home.

I haven't bothered to learn anew with the repeater as it's too much for me to spend to get another lesson. And he told me why -- they are the most annoying watches to overhaul, and the sound is completely subjective, and the owners insist on repeating, "the sound was different before", etc.

There are other brands in this situation too. Second-rate, you might say, or second-tier. For example, I couldn't get rid of a Fortis, or a Maurice LeCroix, or ...


Haha....Phew, my post passed a Mod review ...Thanks for deleting 20 empty lines :)

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-11:00
I learnt my lessons too with 3 GPs and at that time, I was happy and thought I got a Great deal, only to find out with a rude awakening when I try to trade them.
Like yourself, I've since moved on because I cannot justify to my "boss" I want or need this or that GP...I lost that credit.

On the flip side of this...

 By: jleno : February 17th, 2021-11:06
Why not just buy pre-owned, wouldn't the loss be minimal in that case?

You'll be surprised....

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-11:08
Give it a try...check it % wise

Reliability and loss of value? Any of other reasons?

 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : February 17th, 2021-11:02
With the MR, servicing can be an additional issue, I suppose.

I would assume each one passes the same Quality test or specs for reliability?

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-11:10
It should not be different from eg. 1000hrs on a Master Control Time Only or PC or MR.

I also think many of us who buy watches don't give much thought about servicing or it's cost, because I, for one, never send in unless it's broken....maybe I don't own my watches long enough...My oldest is about 20 years.

Watches generally go ‘round

 By: cazalea : February 17th, 2021-14:43
Rotating is a nice smooth motion, compared to retrograde or jumping motions. Hands that fly back every minute, day, week, month are more troublesome. Energy has to be stored and the released, then absorbed on the other end when the hand stops. Rotating (in one direction) does not exert such forces.

I’m thinking of some GG or Roger DuBuis models now.

Chiming and repeating watches add extra mechanisms that store energy, count intervals, release the energy into a hammer, beat onto a chime, then reset. 

Watchmakers have enough trouble fixing regular watches much less these quirky ones. Thus they don’t want their apprentice buying trouble and wanting it fixed for free, or asking how to fix it. 


You missed a Retrograde master watch brand....

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-16:01
Consider and entering Maurice Lacroix 😂

If you want to buy a GP, buy the right ones

 By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : February 17th, 2021-11:53
I don't think anyone has paid full, discount is more than a mere 20% IMHO

Good to know...

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-13:17
Don’t get me wrong, GP makes nice watches, quite innovative.
You get 20% but in the unfortunate event I need to unload, I am offer 20-30% of the 80% I paid for, not going to work for my financial situations.
I said it because I don’t think the love for a watch is that huge enough that you might hurt the relationship of your significant others (nagging from wife, financially)

I will say that "unwearable watches" that are extremely large, are always difficult to sell.

 By: patrick_y : February 17th, 2021-13:18
Your list of criteria is very thorough.  And very complete.  But sometimes a watch just has to have a cool design.  And some crazy social media influencers who wear the watch definitely helps it out too!  Remember when Chanel J12 watches were a thing? 

Haha....crazy social media influencers 👍🏻🤣

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-13:35
Cool is subjective too....noticed newer Hublots and RM are similar but huge differences in fate too....I wonder what didn’t go well with Hublot, even though they collaborated with Ferrari, just like RM with racing.
And don’t forget, what happened to Jacob and Co even with all the Hip Hop celebrities endorsement smile

Hublot does very well in Miami, South America, Spain, and Portugal.

 By: patrick_y : February 17th, 2021-13:48
It's not something we realize unless you read the financial reports or understand the trends. I dug a little more and I found that a lot of Latin movie stars are big on Hublot, hence why the brand is very popular among Spanish and Portuguese speaking populations.

Ah ok.... I’m clueless about that...

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-14:00
Many times I don’t or able to see things from many perspective or the real big picture...
Just like the ancient Chinese story of 4 blind person being ask what an elephant looks like....

I've seen Hublots more often than many other brands.

 By: jleno : February 17th, 2021-14:01
Most people want watches that are both attractive and sporty/casual. Branding is of course a factor too but it is overplayed a little I think. I'm sure most people would take a Hublot over an AP Millenary or Patek Golden Ellipse despite their higher brand status just because of the style and design.

Are they real? Of course that’s another question but I agree and see your point.

 By: Clueless_Collector : February 17th, 2021-14:12
Like a pyramid, target audience is also different. Well, we know it’s a business, dollars and cents but better labeled and interesting.

This explains the Hublot Big Bang Paraíba, set in tourmaline that was discovered in Brazil in 1989

 By: Rosneathian : February 24th, 2021-19:29

Ahh, yes it does explain!

 By: patrick_y : February 25th, 2021-22:05
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