nafetS
2004
This is OT, but Schadenfreude actually means taking pleasure in someone else getting harmed, being unfortunate or losing. In its original meaning it has nothing to do with ganging up against an established entity.
Nov 07, 2023,22:56 PM
It would be Schadenfreude, if I‘d make fun of Cozmopak for what probably happened to him at the auction.
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Christies Auction Debacle 2023
By: Cozmopak : November 7th, 2023-04:15
Many of you probably noticed that something very odd happened earlier today at the Christies single owner auction of Mohammed Zaman's collection. There was an hour long delay at the beginning of the auction. Then, during the auction, the low estimates jum...
It may be a legal thing
By: Cozmopak : November 7th, 2023-04:36
They were obligated to raise it once they had a third party guarantor
A good opinion, but nevertheless, still just an opinion.
By: patrick_y : November 7th, 2023-04:39
Yes, a bunch of sales cleared the low estimate plus the 26% buyers premium. And many to the same paddle. So your theory is definitely a good theory. But - for now, it's just a rumor with little factual basis from those in the know. But good theory! I'd sa...
We will never know the “facts”
By: Cozmopak : November 7th, 2023-04:43
Auction houses operate under a cloak of secrecy. But what we do know is that what happened during the auction with low estimates being raised suddenly was at the very least extremely unprofessional.
Agreed. Very secret.
By: patrick_y : November 7th, 2023-04:48
And I agree, your theory covers all the sparse facts we do know and paints a likely scenario about what happened.
Another “fact”
By: Cozmopak : November 7th, 2023-04:47
Is that the decimal repeater Kari at that auction was broken. I emailed Christies about it and told them to update their disclosure. They blew me off. Lol
Yes
By: Cozmopak : November 7th, 2023-04:54
Wow
By: m2 : November 7th, 2023-05:10
It’s weird since there’s usually some consumer recourse for stuff like this in most countries…
Buyers' recourse against auction houses... mmh not sure that works
By: VinnieD : November 7th, 2023-07:42
My experience is that once the hammer falls, all accountability disappears. This is a typical adverse agency problem: 'bad' owners or pieces end up at auction for that very specific reason. Good grey dealers show more accountability than auction houses.
Recourse is possible …
By: Cpt Scarlet : November 7th, 2023-09:08
You would need to take firm legal action against the auction house to stand any chance of getting satisfaction. Against this you have to weigh up the significant costs.
Consumer protection agencies can be pretty aggressive
By: m2 : November 7th, 2023-16:10
In the US at least, not sure about outside of the US. But here it's pretty easy to get sued by a consumer protection agency if even just ~3 - 5 people report you. We had ~4 people file a complaint for a business with ~500,000+ customers and the UT consume...
Just "Moderating" the conversation here...
By: patrick_y : November 7th, 2023-16:34
I find these false accusation or fact-less accusations ungentlemanly. Hence, why I'm trying to remind readers about speculation. Am I wrong? You're not wrong, as you stated, this is a message board and not a news outlet. But this isn't a Reddit board wher...
Patrick,
By: Cozmopak : November 7th, 2023-16:45
I know that you mean well. And I truly appreciate your moderating efforts. I have had several discussions with collectors on this forum about your moderation as being perceived as combative and defensive. I'm offering you this insight constructively and i...
lol true
By: m2 : November 7th, 2023-20:28
I haven't seen that episode.
By: patrick_y : November 7th, 2023-22:43
Haven't really seen that show - caught half an episode on an airplane. Sounds like a hilarious show though.
I'm aware of the facts.
By: patrick_y : November 7th, 2023-16:58
There is no need to suggest that I am giving the benefit of the doubt to auction houses. Your participation here already makes the assumption that your moderators are as objective as possible.
I wasn't that surprised neither...
By: patrick_y : November 7th, 2023-17:44
I was thinking - totally not surprised. The only thing surprising was that it was so obvious... It must've really been a last minute decision!
Same for Rexhep and dufour
By: Bruno.M1 : November 7th, 2023-17:14
And don’t get me wrong cause if you ask me to name my 3 dream watches…. It would be dufour, Rexhep en smith But the amount they sell for today is a big joke Even at list they’re massive overpriced
This will probably be investigated.
By: Boris : November 7th, 2023-19:26
And my money is on the auction house’s lawyers having done their homework to ensure they abided to the law from a strictly formal, if not moral, standpoint. But I can’t help thinking that if this were a different jurisdiction (say, the US) and a different...
Help me out here.
By: Jay (Eire) : November 7th, 2023-23:52
The auction house client, to me always the seller, is surely not complaining. So the estimates move up, estimates are a teaser. They are supposed to entice bidders. They have historically always been low. A guarantor was needed to create a floor in the bi...
??? There’s no bait and switch here.
By: Jay (Eire) : November 8th, 2023-20:49
And I’m not pro auction house just for the record. Generally speaking catalogues are way too broad for the folks there to have the expertise to cover every lot, and then the vintage world is so littered with minefields that who knows really what’s truly c...
But that bidder is being paid to make the floor on price.
By: Jay (Eire) : November 8th, 2023-20:58
They are not doing that without risk right? And their fee is based on the risk being assumed. By definition they are only needed when there is a risk that minimum prices might be achieved and so once they are brought to the table it’s acknowledged that in...
I understand the point you are making.
By: Jay (Eire) : November 9th, 2023-20:14
Assuming no other bidders to take the lot above the reserve then the reserve (which is the max bid the insurer will make in that case) is the winning bid. Yes, this is not reflective of a competitive bidding process. If the lot it bid higher than the rese...
Yes, may be also the case.
By: Jay (Eire) : November 10th, 2023-15:07
Sharing some of that upside can make the “premium” a little cheaper for the auction house. To me, as I’ve said, this is a financial tool which allows the auction house to do its business. I’m curious as to what firms provide this type of product to the au...
Personally - I don’t see a problem here.
By: Timeout : November 8th, 2023-23:48
Let’s be honest - we’re talking about the sales of “nice to haves” to an extremely small minority of the global population. If someone wants to up the ante on the minimums and has the capital and liquidity to do so then that’s their choice. Every buyer at...