Park
547
Legal vs. Moral
Art,
I wasn't making a legal point at all. Intellectual property law--ineffectual tool that it is--only offers a bit of protection to certain commercial interests. My point was more substantial: What moral right does anyone have to take the work of another and present it as his own? When a concept developed by one man is presented by another, I believe there is an obligation to announce loudly and clearly that the idea is not original and should be credited to the original source. I am all too aware that imitators everywhere like to say that there is nothing new under the sun, but this isn't true. Some people create; most do not. My personal view is that the work of those who create is deserving of the highest honor and respect. For example, I would name buildings, parks, and watches after these creators and not after politicians or ball players or race car drivers. Likewise, my personal view is that those who steal the creations of others are deserving of dishonor and disrespect.
Is there something about this view that you think reflects "ire"? I thought I was expressing values.
Park
With all due respect and in total friendship, Jocke...
I'm not very happy to see such a replica of THE Polaris... I mean replicas in general. A pity. Best, Nicolas
Imitation...
...is the greatest form of flattery! I like it, largely because I like the Polaris. The connection between the two is obvious, but a watch like this is more 'an homage' than a replica It makes no claim of being a Polaris, just that it wishes it was. Best,...
We say the same about Fake watches...
But at the end, you just got an imitation... Is it worth it? Would you have the same pleasure than with the original? Food for thought... Best, Nicolas
Ah, yes...
...I had considered this and thought carefully about my choice of words. Like yourself, as a lover of fine watches, I have absolutely no time for 'fake' watches, but the watch in question (based on what I have seen) falls into a slightly different catagor...
Nicely argumented, Dan
And, of course, interesting discussion. Ifg we make it simple and short, why do you think people can be attracted by this ..." Homage "? Because it looks like a Polaris, don't you think? They don't put " JLC " nor " Polaris " on the dial because they know...
I see your point...
...and as always Nicolas, I hold your opinion in high esteem. In fact I think that your opinion probably represents that of the majority of our community, my own opinion differs slightly. I wonder if my opinion would alter if I were the owner of a JLC Pol...
My thoughts...
....I think this is like a leather jacket in a military cut- no doubt that its not an original, but acceptable because its turned the point of being classical, which is the ultimate compliment to JLC (and the ultimate goal is still to have the original). ...
My view is that
The lack of branding doesn't sway it for me. If I can't have the real JLC, I'd rather buy something with its own integrity such as a Polerouter Sub or Longines Legend Diver. Best, J.
How do you feel about your Polaris?
...non-original, copy of an EPSA case, hash-marks on crowns, "EPSA" diving helmet on caseback, modern Polaris? To me, the EPSA case is a bigger player in watch history than the Polaris, so.....I feel protective of it in the same way that you feel protecti...
Let's give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar
Hello, Ben, You're absolutely correct when you say that the Polaris ( as many others ) used the EPSA case created by Piquerez in 1956. AFAIK, there was no watch made by Piquerez. Therefore, JLC made the Polaris since 1963 ( Proto ) and the first series we...
I completely agree...
But this past belongs to EPSA, not JLC. Who have 'appropriated' the EPSA Super Compressor logo. (As an aside: I was discussing this with an associate with a Master Compressor something-or-other, who was surprised to see that the name Compressor in regards...
Imitation without payment, license, or credit is dishonorable
Dan, "Homage" seems to me to be a euphemism for a fundamentally corrupt phenomenon. I understand using another man's or group's or company's ideas or words or concepts for a fee or with proper authorization or, in situations where this is customary, with ...
My understanding is that . . .
. . . patents ran out after 17 years. Copyright can be extended indefinitely. Are watch designs patented? Or copyrighted? If they are, then I might agree. If not, then I'll have to pass. Without legal protection, any design is subject to emulation without...
I think fake and inspired are different..
Inspired is when the design is taken but not the brand name. The product is not trying to mislead people into thinking that it is the original item. There are parts that are deliberately made different to the original and the obvious exclusion of the bran...
Other form of protection is 'Commercial Identity'
There is also: Established commercial identity One of the example that comes to mind is Panerai versa Rxw (Homage). Panerai won this legal suit because of their known and established commercial identity via an established design. When a watch model is in ...
the RXW situation is interesting Poy.
Ken trading lost out against Panerai as their watch was a blatant copy of the Luminor, but what interests me is that RWC(retrospect watch company) were never taken to court with their Cali dialled Radiomir homage and have produced 2 models of that watch a...
I guess the Radiomir has many pretenders
I guess the Radiomir has many pretenders. To name a few, Rolex, Panerai, Movado and all similar cushion shaped watches. The same applies to the California Dial again, Rolex and many others. Being that most of those watches are from the late 30’s their ide...
i understand your point Poy...
i understand your point Poy and in the end didnt keep it very long. i also understand why people buy a homage. they cant afford the real thing, but fully respect the design and heritage. they want to be part of it without breaking the bank so they buy a h...
Legal vs. Moral
Art, I wasn't making a legal point at all. Intellectual property law--ineffectual tool that it is--only offers a bit of protection to certain commercial interests. My point was more substantial: What moral right does anyone have to take the work of anothe...
Understood, Park. In this instance, my impression is that . . .
. . . the homage Jocke presented is an homage, and not a fraud as there's no attempt made to convince that it's the genuine article . . . it is clearly not manufactured by JLC, and almost certainly not priced as though it were. It's also doubtful that the...
Well...
...if someone is making more readily available EPSA-style cases...I might be able to find the correct replacement star-wheel for my Enicars I'm not sure what to think of that one. But given the dozens of brands that just threw a dial/hand/movement in an E...
Sorry guys..............
My goal was not to start up a riot with this watch. I know that it is an imitation of JLC Polaris, but do not think it should be classed as a fake. The reason for this is that this is a no-name clock and that the Polaris been out of production for several...
Nicolas relax, it seems to be a Photoshop teaser
and if it is, it sure teased your bad side ;-) If it is a creation... Definitions for real, authentic and genuine are nowadays to loose, often animating endless and unnecessary debates. Of course those who are attached to their standards, appreciations, u...
On the contrary, Jocke . . .
. . . this is a highly significant post that cuts to the essence of this forum. I understand the distaste Nicolas has for this latest addition to your collection. The Polaris is an old design, but it has also been recently recreated by the original manufa...
homage or not..
here in asia, its very common. to me, its just one step "above" fakes. whatever the reasoning or motivation is. if i "reproduce a Picasso in full, but not signed off as picasso, does it make it a homage? truth is the notion of homage, implies that the pro...
This is precisely the nub of the controversy . . .
. . . as I would draw a distinction between the party offering the homage and an individual that responds in good faith to the allure of the product. For the former, there are hardly any grounds for respect; for the latter, I would suggest that it depends...
How about this, Aaron? . . .
. . . and yes, Arthur Sarnoff is my favorite artist ;-) . . ....
You need to make it more appropriate for this forum
I think Mr. Sarnoff accurately predicted what a PuristS moderator meeting would look like....
Since the clock is an Omega, the meeting must be . . .
. . . at Bill's place, so he's gotta be the culprit!
That, sir, is the most brilliant photoshopping of all time . . .
. . . and since none of them are wearing Glashüttes, I must be absent . . .