ChristianDK
[F.P. Journe Moderator]
15062
Fastwong: No - he doesn’t say that and again you’re so obviously twisting the meaning
His exact words are : ” What leaves me perplexed in the new generations is that almost all of them focus on creating three-hand watches, with or without tourbillons, finished with impeccable polishes, but then? What is the added value? It is a technical level of three out of ten. There is no real technical or conceptual progress, you understand? It does not go beyond that.”
How you arrive at this being addressed at RRCC2 or a GF handmade is a clear fallacy!
I know I can assume you do know what you’re talking about, neither Akrivia or GF are “the new generation” - they have both been around for a long time. Looking at Akrivia or GF back catalogues these a are technically and stylistically experimental and daring.
I see you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to FP Journe but be fair! At least. I will not name any names but please Scroll down through the Independent section of WPS and you can find plenty that are match for his criticism.and by the way… In fact I heard the same point being made by Rexhep several years ago. Think about that for a second.
He IS asking for more ambitions among the new generation of independents. Not just mindlessly following a recipe that seems to work.
There have never been more money, more buyers, more attention and less sceptisism of the Independents and micro brands than there is right now. This is their golden opportunity. So they should be much more ambitious and show something inspiring.
I honestly can’t think of anyone other than Francois Paul who does more for the young generation of watchmakers and independents. By this, I mean his “Young Talent Award” where he will award those who display creativity but not always commercially viable. He gives them money to buy equipment, he gives them free training at Montres Journe and he gives them sparring.
Also; His manufacture produces parts and dials for micro brands and some “top” Independents to give them opertunity to source high quality components in VERY small quantities.
I think it’s refreshing with some constructive criticism of the Independents.
I think it’s worth listening to what he is ACTUALLY saying and see if YOU/I can learn a bit
There is a very interesting interview with Francois-Paul at Perpetual Passion
I think this one is worth a read. Please enjoy 😉 Link to interview: www.perpetualpassion.com ...
I was reading thinking “sounds like he has come to terms with Jaquet Droz”, not realizing another few paragraphs downs he specifically mentions them! 😂
He also makes a point about luxury and industry which actually has come up on this forum today and another forum a few days back. The crux of that discussion is people don’t understand what luxury actually is, how much of Swiss watchmaking is less luxury ...
I think for the big players like Rolex (with large/respectable market shares), there is also something to be said for “economies of scale.”
They can make certain movements that are of high durability/quality by spending serious cash $$$ (that close to all others cannot do, cost prohibitive or otherwise) and the fact that they produce over a million watches a year and can sell those pieces, he...
Totally! I respect rolex more now than ever. Sometimes I toy with the idea of what it would look like to sell everything and create an all rolex collection
I do think his idea of luxury though is pretty narrow and his lack of appreciation for simplicity and finishing puts him at the other end of the spectrum from dufour or smith. While I agree finishing isn't watchmaking and I can see his point as an invento...
This is a great post…
You have drilled down to what is the very soul of aspirational creativity or the nexus of art and craft. There must be purpose but it’s the artful expression of purpose that inhabits that mercurial union. When endeavoring to improve on such a universal ag...
Thats not what he said Fastwong
He respects those two you mentioned. The point he makes is that most in the new generation of independents are following that same recipe without contributing with anything other than nice craft. And he is dead right. It’s uninspired and at brink of being...
He does say he sees no added value in simple well finished watches. My point is that his dismissal of value there I think narrows his concept of luxury, of "the best".
Is the GF Handmade 1 uninspired because it delivers nothing but hand craft? The RR CC is one of the most extravagantly craft simple 3 handers made today, certainly RR must see value in it? I'm not saying craft is everything, just that it's something, and ...
Fastwong: No - he doesn’t say that and again you’re so obviously twisting the meaning
His exact words are : ” What leaves me perplexed in the new generations is that almost all of them focus on creating three-hand watches, with or without tourbillons, finished with impeccable polishes, but then? What is the added value? It is a technical l...
My thoughts exactly; the way someone “finishes” a watch can be luxury itself
There can be art type luxury (finishing) and complication type luxury (multiple complications), then having both art and complication luxury in one watch should make that watch way more appealing. Some simply made drawings (art) can garner high valuations...
👍
Rolex is totally unique form the rest of the big manufacturers in the industry. The absolute benchmark for quality. I believe F.P. Sees it that way as well and I suspect that is a big reason why he privately is a Rolex collector among the different catego...
Love this quote
"What leaves me perplexed in the new generations is that almost all of them focus on creating three-hand watches, with or without tourbillons, finished with impeccable polishes, but then? What is the added value? It is a technical level of three out of te...
This deserve a dedicated discussion
I think that this is the latest years' trend, great finishing and nothing more. The only watchmaker who's done something really be is Stephen McDonnell with his perpetual and "chrono", while Zenith and Frederique Constant have introduced oscillators.
Yes, it’s gotten tiresome an uninspired but has been hyped beyond belief
It’s why we have people counting inward angles and oohing over wide beveling. It EASY to see and appreciate. But it is merely craft and a default way to establish your self as an independent to make some dollars. I do think though, that when you look at s...
Technical or artisanal or both
First thing up front, I'm the biggest fan of Francois-Paul. I admire his philosophy on watches and I have dined with him (sometimes with Masa) in a group setting a handful of times over the past few years. I own his watches which I have posted a few times...
This is exactly right Ichairan
with a production just below 1000 per annum it is a manufacture and not possible to hand finish watches to the same degree as a Phillipe Dufour or a Rexhep Rexhepi. The comparison simply doesnt make sense. That kind of finish is for the very minor product...
This is an amazing interview.
Freedom of thought and expression coupled with discipline and pursuit of perfection aren’t always present in the same person. Yet FPJ achieves this in his own way. His style is unique and special. Different yet familiar. Pure genius. I love his watches (a...
A real pleasure, Gary.
It’s not often that I see interviews with him any more but he always makes thoughtful and sometimes provocative comments. I also learned something from it.
Great interview
The brand identity being embedded in product the way he described is the same thing I like tn rant about when we acquire a consumer brand. He’s 100% correctly that people should be able to tell it’s yours without a logo.
