Flanker
217
Wow, such a sad story Nico
Sep 02, 2021,06:08 AM
Why didn’t you choose to start a legal action against all this ?
Comments:
view entire thread
Buying From An Auction House? Caveat Emptor!
By: patrick_y : September 2nd, 2021-01:24
Auction houses are often unethical. There. I've said it. Frankly though, a lot of newbie and philistine watch collectors like to buy from auction houses, since these often neavou riche buyers feel that auction houses have properly vetted the watch (when t...
No experience here, Patrick
By: Mostel : September 2nd, 2021-01:52
But I greatly appreciate your boldness and candor here--and your concern. At some point, I'd like to sell an asset through an auction house or a seller appropriate for the asset and this is really eye opening for myself, at least. Appreciate everything yo...
Why thank you!
By: patrick_y : September 2nd, 2021-02:04
Yeah, I'm not going to get any new friends from Sotheby's today. But I feel it's important to point this out because A LOT OF PEOPLE think auction houses have well run operations and are staffed with experts who are accurate and precise all the time. But ...
ROFL!
By: amanico : September 2nd, 2021-04:35
ROFL 😂 😂
By: mrds : September 2nd, 2021-16:13
;)
By: amanico : September 2nd, 2021-19:05
😂
By: mahesh : September 4th, 2021-08:20
Then it could pass as "Like New" BUT NOT "Year 2020"
By: patrick_y : September 2nd, 2021-06:38
It's definitely not a Year 2020. And this is a prime example of how auction house "experts" aren't really experts, and that they're usually quite rushed. Sometimes an auction house will take a seller's word on what the item is and do no checking themselve...
Alas, yes.
By: amanico : September 2nd, 2021-04:34
Thank's for postning the link.
By: lm6 : September 2nd, 2021-05:20
Awful to read this. I presume they didn't give you any information as to the identity of the seller?
Sorry, I missed that part in the article.
By: lm6 : September 2nd, 2021-06:51
I fully understand why you hesitated (and finally didn't) take legal action. Always more complex - and expensive - when in international cases.
That's exactly the problem...
By: patrick_y : September 2nd, 2021-06:46
Let's say a fence who deals in stolen goods is a frequent consignor at this auction house. Of course the auction house will protect their good client, and shield the identity of the consignor. Thus, criminals who fence stolen goods probably frequent aucti...
Wow, such a sad story Nico
By: Flanker : September 2nd, 2021-06:08
Why didn’t you choose to start a legal action against all this ?
I see
By: Flanker : September 2nd, 2021-22:36
Awful story
By: Jari from Finland : September 5th, 2021-05:31
surely many sleepless night at that time.
A real eye opener for me
By: 997c4gts : September 2nd, 2021-09:35
Thanks for bringing this out- knowledge is power. Using an auction house seemingly adds a gloss of respectability with the fancy brochures etc. At the end of the day, if they are willing to advertise and then not stand by the provenance, indeed nor assist...
Interesting read. thank you.
By: nafetS : September 2nd, 2021-10:57
Don't have any experience with auction houses yet, but I thought about trying it a few times. One question regarding the auctioning of Stolen watches: would it be better to inform the Police or other authorities about the Stolen watch and let them contact...
You are exactly correct.
By: patrick_y : December 30th, 2021-18:40
Once you understand auction house operations, and how thinly vetted everything is (sometimes not at all vetted), and the sheer volume of products that overwhelms a very small team, all in a short time frame... it is - as you said - "the perfect recipe for...
Indeed. They get the Extracts for free...
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-00:37
I agree. Nobody is saying it's deliberate. Almost everyone is agreeing that Sotheby's abuses their influence, is extremely clumsy, and that people make too many assumptions when they deal with "reputable" auction houses.
Greed and deception …
By: Cpt Scarlet : September 2nd, 2021-16:05
The motivation for this is all about generating large commissions by the auction houses. As part of this watches that shouldn’t be accepted for legitimate auction are being sold and promoted. The auction houses know who they are selling on behalf of and y...
Thank you …,
By: Cpt Scarlet : September 2nd, 2021-18:24
Let’s do it !
Fair point …
By: Cpt Scarlet : September 2nd, 2021-20:16
How do you feel we should deal with the problem of dubious dealings ?
Our Terms of Conduct prevent the discussion of street pricing.
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-00:46
We can definitely talk about auctions and individual lots after they're finished. But the conversation shouldn't be centered about the price. Connoisseur-ship is not about what something is worth financially, but by what it means to us as individuals in a...
There is no universal, instantaneously audited record of watches... yet...
By: Rosneathian : September 2nd, 2021-16:11
,,, although several watch companies have begun to experiment with blockchain technology to record date of production, sale, ownership and overhaul. Vacheron Constantin was among the first to explore the technology in 2017-2018. Breitling and Ulysse Nardi...
Well said 👏
By: holdemchamp1225 : September 2nd, 2021-17:23
Thanks for these thoughts
By: Rosneathian : September 2nd, 2021-18:09
Blockchain doesn't require websites. The entire process of validating the authenticity of a product, its ownership and transfer of ownership, and therefore of its value, can be conducted securely from one mobile device to another. The mobile devices thems...
Interesting insights, thank you.
By: Rosneathian : September 2nd, 2021-20:13
The secretariat of the UN Framework Convention for Climate Change has a ‘climate chain coalition’ that for three years has been studying and testing ways to use blockchain to manage inventories of GHG gases. That is, as physical, tradable commodities. Tha...
Very interesting!
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-00:58
Tracking pollution through blockchain; from the source of mining the materials... That'd be interesting.
I have similar findings with Blockchain technology...
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-00:50
I think you stated some even bigger problems with blockchain in retail than the ones I mentioned and you stated the problems much more simply and clearly than I did. The micro-imaging so far seems to be the most promising.
Sadly, once you've been in this business for so long...
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-19:47
It's like the people who fly Singapore Airlines or are fans of The Four Seasons Hotel... They're fan boys and they tell others how wonderful it is to work with these dealers and auction houses. BUT. WHEN A PROBLEM HAPPENS... How are you treated at these f...
I've had infuriating experiences with Bonhams!
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-18:53
I've had infuriating experiences with Bonhams and Antiquorum. Less experience with Christies, but I hear they're better to deal with than the average auction house. Those people at Antiquorum sure were clumsy! Wrong address! And trying to pass off a frank...
Pathetic.
By: amanico : September 4th, 2021-08:52
Same issue with well-known second-hand dealers…
By: Chromatic Fugue : September 3rd, 2021-15:39
One such dealer sold me a Patek 3940P “with papers dated 2006,” and it took me more than a year to figure out that the dial of my watch was specific to the 1990s. The dealer simply hadn’t bothered to open the caseback to confirm a match in serial numbers ...
This is a great example of seller misrepresentation!
By: patrick_y : September 3rd, 2021-16:03
Thank you for sharing! Even the most reputable dealers don't do their homework sometimes. They just want to pass a piece of inventory and collect a margin. They're not looking at things through a magnifying glass carefully enough and noticing every detail...
New rich isn’t the problem
By: m2 : January 1st, 2022-17:27
In my experience it’s people with family money who have no appreciation for what it takes to earn capital
Pretty much
By: Fastwong : January 1st, 2022-19:50
I was talking to a Porsche dealer and he said pretty much that. One of his long term customers owns a very successful bakery and he would come in every once in a while to buy a new car. The baker's kids however are constantly trading into the newest hot G...
Yup
By: m2 : January 1st, 2022-21:36
After you bootstrap a business from 0 to 1, you’ll never be able to spend money again.