Er.Win
22
Early 1970s dial
Hello,
It's my first post here, I'd like to ask for your expert opinion.
I took it to my watchmaker to look at the movement (1014, made by JLC) and everything seems fine.
I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding the dial. It does seem crisp to the naked eye and catches light rather nicely. I do know that VC (very much like PP) were, back in the day, not very consistent regarding the accent grave in GENEVE.
What do you think? All legit?
Early 1970s dial
Hello, It's my first post here, I'd like to ask for your expert opinion. I bought this elegant, early 1970s VC and am actually very happy with it. I took it to my watchmaker to look at the movement (1014, made by JLC) and everything seems fine. I'd like t...
Welcome!
As D said - please add some more photos for us to base an evaluation on. Best Blomman
Two more pictures
Hi, Thanks for the replies. I attach two more pictures: case back and side view. I removed the case number as it seems to be the common practice. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of the movement – but I do count on my watchmaker's judgement regarding...
Well, I am no expert ...
And do not know if VC ever made dials without the apostrophe or not, but the rest looks to be the real deal. Let's hope the VC experts will chime in on this one. Best Blomman
I believe in the 70s the Geneve accent dissapeared on some models, again no expert but my VC from 1970 doesnt have it, the only
other piece that I could find similar to yours didnt have it either, it looks good to me, my VC says hi also a K1014 brother ...
Nice white dial, Rogi.
I feel that leaving off the accent makes for a much cleaner dial (no wonder it has become commonplace ever since). I find this case shape to be extremely elegant – there's something "tankish" about it, but somehow more satisfyingly understated.
accent grave or not
In my opinion, the 'accent grave' should not miss on the original factory dials. Therefore I think the dial has, at least, been cleaned. This watches often appear to got moisture intrusion, what often calls for a refinish afterwards...thince customers pre...
Not quite getting it
It's actually 2019, not 2014. The prints you superimpose seem to correspond to the print on the dial, or am I missing something? What about the hands, as you mention them, something wrong? I did buy this watch from a reputable dealer, and the movement is,...
V&C ref 2019A of course
sorry for that writing fault but, what a dealer or watchmaker says about a movement, is irrelevant for authentification in the online forum. A dealer will tell you often, everything is ok, but if you check the offerings, it isn't. The only evidence which ...
Thank you for your effort
I'm totally willing to take bad news, if need be, and I can also still send the watch back. So I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say. I did not ask though to authenticate the watch –the case back numbers do match and I also have the movement nu...
Could you please point me to references?
Your statements regarding dial and case must have been based on some reference. And when you write "I would buy another sample," you must have something in mind. Paraphrasing your own statement, I'd say that claiming without references is irrelevant in an...
timeset stated reference number 2019A, if you google it you'll find other examples that are similar (even one without the hour numbers similar to my 7813 I posted). I would contact Vacheron Constantin and ask them
to check the caseback number and movement number, if they match that should give you the production date, if they don't match then it is either fake or made up of parts. There used to be a forum called "The Hour Lounge" that Vacheron ran (I heard it is ma...
Do you mean "Extract from the Archives"? Or is there a faster way?
I did register to "The hour club", but noticed that there isn't any forum there any more.
Email Vacheron Constantin at their main email and ask for the year of manufacturing of your timepiece, you need to provide them with the case number and movement number
it is a free service (since the website is down today it is even easier just click the concierge for your specific country, ie if you're in North America you just click it and it will pop out an email imediately for you to write), and faster than Extract ...
If you have the brand 'Vacheron' and the reference '2019A', you will be able to find plenty by checking e.g. google
It is not that easy with this watch. You can look at nice and propper samples like this: Regarding the dial, this Roman numeral style has been produced form early 1960 to (at least) early 1980 in many variants, fitted in many different refs. To come to a ...
Of course I did not buy from that seller.
I obviously had googled this reference thoroughly. And I haven't found many references that I can call reliable, and none that I can call comparable. I did find links to watches like the ones you post above (and again – of course I did not buy from that d...
The last four sentences refer on your watch, not on the mill
If the watch is from that dealer ( SO-VL ), I expect it to be (not that mentioned mill), you will probably don't have the chance to return it. It is a one man company. It sells also on catawiki. If you check the comments there, you will recognise that not...
production was probably in 1973
If your case number I guess is 4846xx, the movement number I guess in the range 64xxxx, than the production date was in the early 70', as already stated initially. This would narrow the dials and refs to compare significantly. The inconsistent font which ...
Thanks, the movement number is 65XXXX. Pictures of the movement and the case back inside attached.
(the number on the inside and the outside do match, as stated above.) What do you think? ...
The caseback number is the one on reverse the one you can see before you open the case (not on the inside and no they dont need to match) and movement serial is the one on the movement.
From what I remember and again from the Hour Lounge, VC associated each case back number to each movement and none were identical (at least that i recal for movement and caseback). the inside numbers were a reference number (for your VC) and caseback prod...
Now verified proofed authentic,
the marks are perfect, the case manufaturer mark is missing at those refs in general, the other marks are original. Orginal K1014 in very good, in the first sight, original condition with little to no scratches, clean, no corrosion, no corrosion would cor...
Thanks, that's good to hear and coincides with what my watchmaker says.
Clean dial is in this context is synonymous with assuming that it is in original/untouched condition?
check things under real world conditions
The answer is, no, of course not. First of all, to came up to this conclusion, you have to check the things under real world conditions with a magnifying glass. Finding a pristine dial at a 45-year-old watch is very rare. Usually it would often come along...
Fair enough, thanks, I handle the buckle with great care.
Regarding real world conditions, I can say that the watch "feels," for what it's worth, very good. I have handled a couple of good vintage watchs in my life and this one just "feels" right. Regarding your assumption about the case: I'm not so sure about i...
understand what’s V&C is about
First of all, even if I look at your watch, I could recognize the remains of the brushed surface. Second to that, for me the polished surface is not the used learned V&C look and feel in aesthetic terms, not the V&C style. Third to that, I would m...
Your statement about the movement is of course spot on. The finishing is undoubtedly superior to (most instances of) JLC's 818.
Regarding the case, I'm not quite convinced. I attach pictures of four different cases from the same era, very much V&C feel and aesthetics to me. All – apart from the automatic one – equipped with the 1014. All with polished case finishing. Now, it could...
I am not convinced of your samples
You are not convinced? That's no problem, for me it is fine, as long as I'm convinced. Off course, I could pull out some more evidence, but I think I would have done enough right now. But remember, I was not taking about ref in 70' in general. My recommen...
Normal wear
You are probably right that the original case finishing was satin. However, it seems that the watch was not aggressively polished. I went today to two watchmakers and one vintage dealer in the metropolis I call home. They suggest that this is normal wear,...
many different babies, all from the same mother
The movement cal. 1014 has been in use with many modifications for at least 25 years. It did not feature the option of a free-sprung escapement and it does not appear that V&C produce it under Geneva hallmark of quality. But it was of course finished to t...
some of the VC Les Historiques series ref's use the cal 1014/2
Those VC ref's seem to be the last in line, which got the refined cal. 1014/2 fitted. ...
the question, when did V&C started to use the cal. 1014 answered - they started in 1972
It's often stated, V&C start to use the 9''' movement cal. K1014 in the late 1970's, that's clearly wrong. Have a look at this sample of a V&C Extract of the Archives and also the known movement numbers talk a different language. ...
This is really interesting, thanks. My watch was manufactured in 1973 (see update below).
The Breguet finishing of the movement is also, not surprisingly, exquisite. Can you say something about the buckle? What does the A.W. stand for?
ref 2019A - the missing manufacturer mark 'Poinçon de Maître' for the case
before I stated '... the case manufacturer mark is missing at those refs in general ...', that's probably not correct. It's maybe a Poinçon de Maître which I was not used to yet. Where usually the Poinçon de Maître (e.g. hammer head X red) would appear, t...
Interesintg. What's the mark on the right?
Highlighted in black in the attached picture. ...
the Swiss hallmark for 18K gold, Helvetia
..From 1880 to 1933 there were two Swiss standards for gold, 18 carat signified by the female head of Helvetia, and 14 carat signified by a squirrel. These standards continued after 1933 with the same marks, but the sign of the morgenstern (which translat...
AW is a manufacturer mark, ...
can you take some photos of your buckle: inside and outside, please
your buckle is probably as well authentic
Vacheron & Constantin early 1970's buckle markings: AW is the maker's mark, a well known manufacturer of buckles. SWISS is origin. 0,750 is 18K gold. Déposé is shorthand for Modèle Déposé, which is Swiss/French for "Registered Design". I could not mak...
If you mean a specific version of the K1014, then yes probably around that time, although they've been using it at least since 1970 you can check a source like VC and email them.
My 7813 is from 1970 and sports a K1014. There are numerous examples of this reference online so its fun to go through them and compare the numbers.
show me your sample
sorry, I could not follow. I can't find one from 1970. From 1970's, yes, of course.
No worries, heres one (my own infact) I've cut out the rest of the serial, confirmed by doing exactlty what I suggested to Er.Win, just email Vacheron and check.
Came back with 1970, starts with 45 for caseback and 63 for movement serial (you'll have to trust me on this one as that photo I've lost and won't re-take until Vacheron services my piece, if I find it I'll post it on a new thread). I've got a little bit ...
63xxxx for the movement is 1972
The case number does not quite fit in 1972?! Those sample ref 7813 below, with Extract of the Archives, is movement number 628xxx from 1972. When your movement was finished in 1972, then your watch was finished in 1972 as well. Maybe your case was pre pro...
As I already mentioned, I just emailed VC and checked on The Hour Lounge, which is good for me, next time it visits VC ill get the full package.
From what I remember the case and refernece numbers dont have a sequential order they paired a case with a movement so movement 55 could have case 70 for example. If my piece is infact a prototype that would be sweet but we shall see in the future. The ex...
the movement numbers are not discontinuous, ...
the movements are in-house production, if there is a number lower than yours than your movement is later production. ... 628 xxx from 1972 63x xxx from 1972 is number 628 xxx + 2 xxx movements for your watch 634 xxx from 1973 651 xxx from 1973 ... For aut...
Actually it is quite difficult to date a watch based only on the movement numbers as often the
movements could have been delivered in batches but only cased at a later date. The only way to be perfectly sure is to contact VC with case and movement numbers and they will provide date of production.
You are certainly right because of the V&C evidece
I have not seen a similar number combination at that ref, I would not tend to buy it with out such a confirmation. I recognized also some wired ups and downs with the numbers at other movements and case.
The infamous cal. K1001 vs K1040 argument
There have already been serious discussions about the valuation and reception of the V&C K1040 movement and in my opinion they are both quite worth to reflect on. First of all I would like to mention the article 'The Decay of the Angel' by Carlos Perez, J...
The words of François Constantin: Do better if possible, and that is always possible.
This was and is the house philosophy. But what to do with this maxim, when facing financial difficulties?
Both opinions seem to be correct
My feeling tells me to conform with Carlos Perez. My brain would tell me, earning no money would mean, no future - that would bring me very close to Dr. Roland Ranfft. But that Dr. Roland Ranfft tells us, to compare movements is not possible, is for me no...
Booth opinions seem to be wrong
As I have explained before the both opinions Perez vs. Dr. Ranfft seem to have their week spots. Now we go right along and deconstruct the K1014 movement and than compare even every single part. But are we at the right starting point? - Probably no, of co...
Both opinions seem to be wrong (II)
If we change to a starting point closer to the origin of the K1014 movement the the picture would quite well look more like this. This picture (below) shows a Vacheron cal. K1001/2 movement from late 1960's or early 1970's (left side) and a Vacheron cal. ...
Both right in spirit, but also both wrong in argumentation
When I look at that two movements, immediately something is itching my eye, look at that very detail. Wasn't there something looking quite inconsistent? Should this have been made by Vacheron watch production staff? Would this execution of a free cut have...
A reference for the surface finish of the case
A comparison to a picture from a V&C catalouge from 1974 shows clearly, the case of ref 2019 got a satin finish. The ref '2019 A' won't be much different. ...
As noted above, probably normal wear.
The original case finishing was most probably satin, but the watch has not been aggressively polished – it's just normal wear, very much like scratches or patina. How would you go about restoring the original finish? Send it to VC? I've owned this watch f...
To restore the finish of the case surface is quite difficult, they probably used initially a brush (but what material for the bristles?)
You can find often a treatment with a sandpaper, but that's not the same effect. I would leave it like it is, your's has a pretty good shape and it's easy to make things getting worse.
I don't believe this is correct (about the accent), there are many other models out there in the 1970s where the accent isn't present or pronounced, plus it is standard in French not to accent capital letters. .
I would be more concerned about the reference and movement numbers matching, plus the casbeack and the hallmark engravings on his reference over anything else. I think the OP's main concern should be sending Vacheron an email and going from there, we can ...
If you think so ...
as far as I know it started to disappear in the late 70'. But production of dials was maybe not consistent all the time. ...
I'd agree with the possible discrepancy in dial manufacturing (on the accent, agree to disagree ;)
all in all it always pays to look at the dials on a specific reference and if the majority of these had the accent then we should assume it could have been but without conclusive proof the accent shouldn't be the go to, it should be the case and movement ...
accent grave or not in capital letters
There are actually two instances when you should always use accents on capital letters in French language: a) In proper nouns, such as the name of a company or a person. b) When accents avoid embarrassing misunderstandings or mistakes. This is what Académ...
Update: The production year is confirmed to be 1973
A couple of days ago I sent Vacheron Constantin an email, as suggested by Rogi, with the case and movement number. Yesterday they wrote me back that the number correspond to a watch manufactured in 1973.
Interesting evidence backing the missing accent
I'm reviving here that good ol' thread. But for a mighty good reason: some vintage Vacheron scholarship. It seems that that accent grave was, as assumed, not intended to appear on the dial of this particular model. An identical model, albeit in white gold...