Vacheron Constantin

Hello,

I bought this elegant, early 1970s VC and am actually very happy with it.
I took it to my watchmaker to look at the movement (1014, made by JLC) and everything seems fine.

I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding the dial. It does seem crisp to the naked eye and catches light rather nicely. I do know that VC (very much like PP) were, back in the day, not very consistent regarding the accent grave in GENEVE.

What do you think? All legit?

Cheers
D

And do not know if VC ever made dials without the apostrophe or not, but the rest looks to be the real deal.
Let's hope the VC experts will chime in on this one.
Best
Blomman

other piece that I could find similar to yours didnt have it either, it looks good to me, my VC says hi also a K1014 brother

I feel that leaving off the accent makes for a much cleaner dial (no wonder it has become commonplace ever since).
I find this case shape to be extremely elegant – there's something "tankish" about it, but somehow more satisfyingly understated.

In my opinion, the 'accent grave' should not miss on the original factory dials.

It's actually 2019, not 2014. The prints you superimpose seem to correspond to the print on the dial, or am I missing something? What about the hands, as you mention them, something wrong? I did buy this watch from a reputable dealer, and the movement is, upon inspection from my watchmaker, kosher.

sorry for that writing fault but, what a dealer or watchmaker says about a movement, is irrelevant for authentification in the online forum. A dealer will tell you often, everything is ok, but if you check the offerings, it isn't. The only evidence which counts for a proper authentification here, is a clear picture. Otherwise a propper authentification is simply not possible.
For authentification of a watch you have to check further details also, like the case back (inside), the movement and case numbers, manufacturer marks, company marks, gold marks, the hands, the crown, the dial - completely every detail. The script and the superimpose are not the same - not only a cleaning, even a reprint could have happen. Let's name it, I would buy another sample.
And you should ask first, bevore you buy, if you could not stand bad news.

I'm totally willing to take bad news, if need be, and I can also still send the watch back. So I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say.
I did not ask though to authenticate the watch –the case back numbers do match and I also have the movement number (if you can tell me something about them I'd gladly send you them in a private message).
What I did ask for is an opinion regarding the dial, because I could simply not find reliable comparable references. What is your reference to the dial of this specific model? And to the finish (you say it should be brushed, I haven't found any brushed references)?

Your statements regarding dial and case must have been based on some reference. And when you write "I would buy another sample," you must have something in mind. Paraphrasing your own statement, I'd say that claiming without references is irrelevant in an online forum and – dare I say? – unfair.

to check the caseback number and movement number, if they match that should give you the production date, if they don't match then it is either fake or made up of parts. There used to be a forum called "The Hour Lounge" that Vacheron ran (I heard it is making a re-appearance) they would have been able to help 100% I hope that helped a little more. 

I did register to "The hour club", but noticed that there isn't any forum there any more.

it is a free service (since the website is down today it is even easier just click the concierge for your specific country, ie if you're in North America you just click it and it will pop out an email imediately for you to write), and faster than Extract from the Archives. Also if the case and movement number do match that isn't a gurantee to the legitimacy of the timepiece but it will give you a starting point, if they can't find a match in the archives it means that it isn't legitimate (ie made from parts etc.). I would also send Vacheron two photos of the timepiece, front and back so that they can tell you if it looks ok.

No message body

I obviously had googled this reference thoroughly. And I haven't found many references that I can call reliable, and none that I can call comparable. I did find links to watches like the ones you post above (and again – of course I did not buy from that dealer!).

(the number on the inside and the outside do match, as stated above.) What do you think?

From what I remember and again from the Hour Lounge, VC associated each case back number to each movement and none were identical (at least that i recal for movement and caseback). the inside numbers were a reference number (for your VC) and caseback producers number on some models (cant recal this exactly but i do remember they have no bearing if present) or a repeat of the caseback number. On older VC it was different. Can’t wait to see what VC say for the date

Orginal K1014 in very good, in the first sight, original condition with little to no scratches, clean, no corrosion, no corrosion would correpond to the clean dial.
Your watchmaker should check if there is oil in the bearings.

Clean dial is in this context is synonymous with assuming that it is in original/untouched condition?

The answer is, no, of course not.
First of all, to came up to this conclusion, you have to check the things under real world conditions with a magnifying glass.

Finding a pristine dial at a 45-year-old watch is very rare. Usually it would often come along with oxidised index markers and case, because untouched for decades – a drawer find.

Your case was polished, that means to me it was used. Many of those refs, of course the used ones, show defects caused by moisture intrusion. Therefore the possibility of a cleaning is still there.

Moreover, as I stated initially, I would expect the accent grave for this period dials and I would have expected even a different font.
The last checks just confirm, that the print including the suspicious font seems to be authentic, as well as the case marks and the movement.

What have been the pristine version of the dial – the factory output – probably remain undiscovered until there will be such a drawer find.

One more recommendation, as far as I remember there was a golden buckle with your watch. This buckle represents about 1/5 of the value of your watch. If you change the strap, be always cautious about your 18K gold buckle. It should have the specific markings as well.

Regarding real world conditions, I can say that the watch "feels," for what it's worth, very good. I have handled a couple of good vintage watchs in my life and this one just "feels" right.
Regarding your assumption about the case: I'm not so sure about it being polished. The bevels are sharp & even. Are you 100% sure that this watch was only offered satinized? Or does this assumption only reflect the references we can google as of today?

First of all, even if I look at your watch, I could recognize the remains of the brushed surface.

Second to that, for me the polished surface is not the used learned V&C look and feel in aesthetic terms, not the V&C style.

Third to that, I would mention the numerus satinised versions, which quite well look very V&C, especially in untouched versions.

But to know that for 100%, no that’s not possible. Even the company couldn't probably make a statement about it. You could check the product offer, catalogues or adverts of the early 70’s. However, this would only give a glimpse – an idea.

Another topic I would like to mention:

You talked about, that there is a JLC movement in your watch. You are lucky, that’s not correct. The base movement (the ground plate and the bridges) was sourced at JLC, but the finished movement is V&C. There is usually much more refinement in a V&C movement compared to JLC. My recommendation would be, compare them to understand what’s V&C is about.

Regarding the case, I'm not quite convinced. I attach pictures of four different cases from the same era, very much V&C feel and aesthetics to me. All – apart from the automatic one – equipped with the 1014. All with polished case finishing. Now, it could be of course that they were all polished at some later point after the purchase. But somehow I'd assume at the very least one of them exhibits the original finishing. What do you think? There's never 100%, as you say yourself, but I think it's safe to assume that polished finishing did exist for these cases









.

You are not convinced?
Off course, I could pull out some more evidence, but I think I would have done enough right now.
My recommendation for the aficionado:
- Avoid this ref 2019 / 2019A with over-polished case, authentic surface would be satinised.
- The movement K1014 is also not the first choice for the aficionado, intelligent money could buy better and similar advanced V&C calibers, e.g. K1001/2, at similar rate.

You are probably right that the original case finishing was satin. However, it seems that the watch was not aggressively polished. I went today to two watchmakers and one vintage dealer in the metropolis I call home. They suggest that this is normal wear, like scratches or patina – the watch has lived a live. It should be possible to restore a satin finish, but I'm not sure I'd like to do that.
I don't care for "intelligent money" when talking watches that are meant to be worn. They are about passion, and this watch is – in my opinion – stunning.