Patek Philippe

 born in 1977 (!) and still one of the center pieces/workhorses in the current collection. Good or bad? Some thoughts : - Reliability? Proofed. - Beautiful in the (classical) quality of workmanship and finish? Proofed. - A good base for adding complicati...  

It is what I consider to be a great movement. Now, what I am not pleased with is to see the same movement ( or almost ) on a simple Calatrava AND in a watch like the Celestial. Ir is not a question of size, well, not mainly, it is just the perception I ha... 

to get that specific reply from you my friend? We all read about it before :-) Celestial - what in specific are you missing in that case or does it just have to be the latest and fanciest kid on the block? Oliver

Why I didn't get, and won't get a Langematik Pepetual? Because it houses the same Cal than the Langematik Anniversary, with a module. Why won't I get a patek QP? For the same reason: I already own a 5110P, so the same Cal 240 with a different module. Why ... 

I have no problem with a 240 based QP, but would have a problem if the module is a chronograph module ( goes against past PP chronograph philosophy ). To the best of my knowledge, the 240 was designed with complications in mind. I also prefer the pusher f... 

I have no problem with the Cal 240 as a base for a QP. I agree that it is a fine offer from Patek. BUT I can't have two Patek watches sharing the same calibre, the noly difference being the module. ( WT, and QP ). I already have the WT, so I can't, due to... 

... Especially the ones you put to yourself. You are auto limiting yourself under the flag that you are a disciplined good boy. You should know better than anyone, the hell with all that Nicolas, or you go bold and as far as your desires will take you, or... 

I would not have any clients, hence no funds for my watch projects. ;) I have on problem to own several Rolex using the same calibre ( or almost ). I make a big difference between Rolex and Patek, though. In terms of complications, finishings, most of all... 

... on you for keep on beating that dead horse :)) We agree, the celestial have something hard to swallow

no fat, full of iron, i wonder why all the fuse they did about it in France.

Hi Nicolas, You know that I disagree with you on that point, but not totally. No it is not the Swiss tradition to have a specific calibre for each watch. It is purely a Lange thing AFAIK and it makes sense on a marketing side, but not on a technical or in... 

... the celestial is crossing borders. I'm starting to like it more and more with this conversation :) You got a very good point.

with regard to this great watch manufactory house, Patek Philippe. However, in your reply today I find two important points missing. Firstly, you mention correctly that AP and VC have, or still use a JLC base caliber but somehow forget to mention that Pat... 

Hi, The calibre I mention is the one based on the JLC 889/899, a calibre that was never used by Patek Philippe. Regarding calibre 920, it was never used in a JLC watch, so no possible comparison. best Dje

Hi, Yes I've had in the last 20 years many calibres 1120 and 2120 in hand, be they in AP RO Jumbo, RO perpetual skeleton, Jules Audemars simple watch or EOT PC, or older watches, or in many VCs like Saltarello, Mercator, Audubon, perpetual calendars, espe... 

Incorrect! We leave it a that. Cheers. Francois

nt

Hi Dje, We seem to have both noticed the anling finishing and the 240 presence on a wide price scale potential issues. Even if I compeltly understand your point of view, may I just mention that when you write having many calibers for nearly each watch and... 

nt

Even Lange doesn't develop one movement per watch, if you take the example of the Langematik movement, which you find in the simple " Langematik " as well as in the Wempe LE ( Power Reserve indicator ) and in the Langematik Perpetual ( QP module ). But I ... 

Hi Nicolas, sorry for your tea! The reference 5100 had a specific calibre, but was limited at 3000 pieces if I remember well, so not a small series. That was probably enough to develop and justify a specific calibre (that was eventually possibly partially... 

As I said before: I hear your argument, but I don't agree. The difference between the most complicated Patek Automatic Minute Repeater and the least expensive Minute Repeater is MANY hundreds of thousands of dollars. The fact that they both employ the sam...  

However, I have one problem with the watch: I do not have it! Best, Kari

and mostly it is because of three reasons: - the movement is so incredibly slim taking into account that it's an automatic movement - being an automatic is handy but thanks to the micro rotor, the movement looks nearly as interesting as a manual one - rel... 

The thin 240 caliber with its micro-rotor started my love for Patek Philippe over a decade ago. 1. It was the first micro-rotored movement from a large Swiss watch company that I noticed (Piaget actually came up with the very first micro-rotored watch mov... 

... if I am not wrong. Best Moritz

11 month before Universal :-)

Just found the right source and read the article about "micro rotors". Many thanks for that Oliver! These are the tidbits a watch fan is craving for. Best Moritz

How far is Piaget down the list? 3rd?

they have been number 3 and they paid license fees to Büren.

... but on that specific point, i almost agree with him...! About the celestial, its such a majestic and fantastic piece, so highly priced, AND with big case for a Patek... 43mm ( not 42mm as mentioned in the post ) that i really don't understand why pate... 

Am I romantic too much? ;) Thanks for the correction on the diameter of the Celestial ( 43 mm ) , you are absolutely right. Best, Nicolas.

The hell with the 200k euro, in the end, its just money... Ain't i too Romantic as well?

I like 240 for the following reasons: 240 is so far, based on my personal experience, the most reliable Patek's automatic movement (among 315, 330, 324, 240). Winding efficiency is very good. (even many claim that 240 is due to the size of rotor inefficie... 

That's not the only concern about Caliber 240. There are even more widely used movements such as IWC Caliber 5000, or GO , and etc. but they are all considered very fine movements. Especially Zenith El Primero, which consists almost 70 percent of whole co... 

It's my 1st Patek so sentimental value wise is already a winner. Wasn't aware of the cal. 260. I would love to know more about it. Regard Tyler ...  

And it is quite logical, as the World Time was the watch from Patek I desired the most! Best, Nicolas

it is rather disappointing to see it across the board in so many watches. While each watch with the 240 has its own merits, it becomes a bit boring. New watch should equal new movement in an ideal world, though this is a more difficult economic reality. (... 

traditional Swiss? Mr. Stern (sen.) said in an interview some years ago: "The best proof of the excellent suitability of Caliber 240 is the fact that we haven’t needed to make any fundamental changes in it since its launch." "New watch should equal new mo... 

Hi Oliver, As you know I've had my 5712 for nearly a year now. I payed attention to this size issue when buying mine and I still do when I look at a watch in a store. Indeed it is something I regret when it is too small : the work concerning decoration is...  

food for thought in this thread. I'll eat first to give energy to my thoughts. Cheers. Francois

And I'll read your thoughts with great interest François :) Cheers, Mark

... about the finishing of the bridges, and the vertical edges. The parts of the movement are laser cut, and man's hand intervene later to finish those parts. Now you will not find on your nautilus the level of finishing that you will on a 5950A let's say... 

A 5950A he says, just like that? .....are we becoming blase Fricks? If you are just let me know, I look after it very gooooood, with love and tender attention, I promise! :):):): Cheers. Francois

hard to argue against that, right?

I love that watch too and as Oliver's post concerned the 240 caliber I was only focusing the movement. But as you said, the bracelet, the case and, last but not least, the dial are absolutely great. That's why I bought this fantastic watch, and I love it,... 

If there would be any Nautilus with that kind of finishing and attention to the detail, the price would be ridiculous. The movement inside the 5950 and lots of other details on that specific watch shown, are to die for and I could get lost just looking at... 

as I was not allowed to take pictures when I saw it the last time. But it still "burns" in my head and not only the movement ... Have to work on that, at least on the pictures :-) Oliver

... work on the pics :) I will try to find someone who is around geneva, still the best place to have a chance to find such piece is in their salons there

but not for taking pictures :-(

Mark I agree with you in general, even when it is still above industry standard. People like you and me expect 100% or even more ... :-) But if we would always get what we ask for we couldn´t afford them anymore - probably :-) Once I had the idea to go fo... 

As you said Oliver maybe I forget what I'm waiting for compared to the production capacity and the overall demand of these watches. I was a bit unfair there. I took back the 5712 from the safe since friday and I must say this is way above the average fini... 

Dear Mark, I am fully with you on the fact that most Patek movements can be improved in terms of angle finish. I compared 240, 315, 324, 28-20 (5100 mvmt), 27-70 (Lemania based chrono), CH 29-535 (5170), R TO 27 (3939) and R 27 (5078). In general, my find... 

Some more to share. In addition: - It's much more difficult to finish (angle part) the bridges on 240 because they are very thin and (relatively) big. The improper (or say over) angling could cause shape change of the bridges. - Lange's German silver base... 

Hi Grisar, Thank you very much for your 2 replies, it's the kind of tangible elements I like as we need to remain objective and fair. Dje also mentioned those 3 levels of finishing and I'm glad to see that you confirm this observation. I found very intere... 

I do agree that it would be preferable to have a movement purpose-built for each reference, no modules, etc. But then you have the 5970 and its kin having the same movement as a cheap Omega... Doesn't make them less desirable in my view. I confess I am in... 

Fom my experiences: fresh from the service it keeps + 1,5 sec a day time, which is amazing like a grande comp for an ultra thin movement with a beat ratio of 21.600 only and a small balance! If you waer it daily for 2 years it starts to gain more and more... 

like the Celestial. I view these things differently than most. The advent of sapphire backs has opened the door for a lot of discussion along with criticism with respect to finish, size of movements being used and modular additions. I have owned a 3861 fo... 

With excellent pros & cons. I have enjoyed the crossing of swords., but without any lost of blood. Personally, I am not qualified enough to make a recommendation one way or the other. But suffice to say that the 240 is an excellent and extremely relia...