Jay (Eire)
12444
Gordon, the problem is money and there really isn’t a solution.
Whether it be an AD or a directly owned point of sale (for Patek or any brand where scarcity and access are part of the equation) the SAs and even the managers are having their influence bought through under the table “gifts” and side benefits.
It would be very hard for me to believe that the SA involved in those sales was not nicely compensated for her or his troubles. I see it in NYC all the time, maybe not for sealed watches but for allocations and access.
Of course Patek HQ may have been involved in some of the decisions too, but the customer and the SA had already built the appropriate profile to be able to ask for allocation pieces.
Hi 👋 All, The Tokyo Exhibition was memorable, enjoyable and meaningful !
In addition to having fun like a kid in a candy store and bonding with members at GTGs, we had a meaningful conversation with Thierry Stern and Jérôme Pernici (Commercial and Marketing Director). Even with their busy schedule, they took the time to explai...
So cool! Thank you for sharing!
Sad to see those double sealed watched up for auction! This is what genuine collectors really hate seeing! But just curious lol, how did you manage to get hold of the letter that Stern sent to retailers? I tried searching it online but to no avail! Thank ...
Welcome to our forum and enjoy the visit. The letter was
provided to me by Patek after we had a discussion with Thierry and Jerome. This letter was for distribution to Patek ADs and was not intended for the general public. Jerome understood from us that the collector community was angry with the bad situation a...
I appreciate PP doing there best to reduce speculative buyers.
Because when they came in, our hobby went down.
The Brand needs a small amount of them to keep the hype going...
It's a balance. The Brand needs a small amount of these speculators to keep the churn going. But not too much that existing clients get annoyed and stop buying out of annoyance. So if you think about it, these speculators are doing an invaluable service f...
Patek has the scale, clout and prestige that they should want to control the entire sales/buying experience for their
clients. As such, I think the best course of action is to take a page out of AP's books, start pulling AD's and start opening boutiques. They should (obviously) start with AD's that they are know are offenders of the sealed box sales.
Good suggestion ! 👍. On the other hand, Patek has always said that it is a
manufacturer and not a retailer because AD partners are better at knowing their customers. Perhaps some more Patek self owned Salons/Maisons ?
Perhaps some more Patek self owned Salons/Maisons ?
That's exactly what I mean, yes. I think Patek knows their most major customers very well already. With the number of "application" watches" they already have, they know all the major players anyway.
Hi Ed, reason you cannot see my beautiful face is that I do
NOT have a beautiful face 😅
As a quick moderator’s note (and I’ll happily let Patrick chime in if he has any further comments on this thread): This was indeed a private letter sent by Patek to ADs after the well-known recent incidents.
We are fine if it now gets published….with the understanding that since this is (obviously) a highly controversial and sensitive topic, the conversation remain cordial and in an appropriate tone. Also, Patek will be making any final decisions they deem pr...
I was surprised and delighted when I read the following ↓ sentence from FabR. really?
Patek Philippe has a long history of appreciation of our forum and its members’ feedback, and is also well aware of its current situation
Patek Philippe has been very supportive of WatchProSite since the beginning years!
Patek Philippe and WatchProSite have a long 20 year long relationship. They were an early supporter of WatchProSite because they agree with the values here at WPS. Especially since we focus on the aficionado experience. Twenty years ago, watch brands thou...
Thank you Shun, as usual Patrick has already given you an excellent answer! :-) Our friendship and mutual respect with Patek started WAY earlier than my time here as co-Moderator (2020-22) and then sole Moderator (since April 2022).
As you certainly noticed, we've been working hard to strengthen our relationship even further during the last few years. And while our live model announcements are probably the most useful outcome for the international watch collecting community at large,...
Thank you FabR.
Yes, I was surprised that this letter was permitted to be published. Especially since the letter is clearly addressed to dealers within the Patek Philippe network AND the letter also has a SWIFT code and IBAN number on the bottom. Yikes. I wonder if Jerom...
💯💯💯👏👏👏
Completely agree on contents of the letter…watches are purchased for enjoyment and milestones celebrated, having someone or group purchase all those sealed watches to have it surface at an auction is not only shortsighted but detrimental to collectors. Pa...
Great comments and good observations you made Patekfinity !
We all want this problem to go away !💪
lol
My view on all madness is, when such a Patek Philippe watch is so expensive, there is a lot of very good watches that can you keep for a very long time in a honeymoon. Albeit i do not like it when i never seen or have tried a Patek Philippe watch on my ow...
I appreciate this action by PP
Enthusiast driven ownership of their pieces leads to deeper roots for the manufactur. Now if they can in crease the power reserve on many of these watches beyond 40ish hours, and get rid of all the pin pushers for the calendars we would be really pleased....
How would we set the watch?
I like your idea for getting rid of the pin pushers. But how would we set the watches? And a strong NO to the permanently set perpetual calendars like IWC has - sometimes those things get something wrong by a day and you can never get it all right again. ...
Well I'm not watchmaker
But blancpain has underlug corrector, moser I believe all through the crown. I just feel the pushers all over the case don't look the best, but clearly I am minority here. I also think calendar, or any watch, with 35-45h PR is a little weak. VC not much b...
Ahh, yes, I see where you're coming from...
The Moser is not a fair comparison - most of its perpetual calendars don't have a moon phase. The Blancpain is fair game though!
Thank you for identifying these!
Avoiding the correctors is always a nice detail! Glad to read that you didn't overlook this important detail.
I was also pleased with Patek’s quick action !👍
Perhaps at the next Exhibition, let’s bring up your suggestion on the power reserve 😃
It migth seem harsh but I don't understand why ADs that sell double sealed watches
don't get their license revoked immediately or at least after only a few instances (2-3 warnings max). Too many of these things happened over the last couple years with super high end watches being immediatly flipped after realease - i.e green / tiffany 5...
If an AD has only violated the rule once, Patek is unlikely to
revoke the license. As you suggested, perhaps 3 strikes then out.
I want to believe that's true but have my doubts that they really pull the license
from big time ADs (big chains) if they have 3 violations
I'm confident that this letter is enough reminder to the ADs to never sell watches with packaging ever again.
It's possible that the AD in question here wasn't familiar with the rules. Or had sold so many to this client in the past in such a manner that they never thought it'd bite them in the rear. Well... That was short sighted thinking. I would think that the ...
Onto matters more serious...
Even General Schwarzkopf would not have needed to wear two watches if he wore a 5131!! Gordon how come you are wearing a second watch with your WT??😁😁😁 In all seriousness, thank you for sharing this information. It is great to see Patek care for the genui...
You are welcome and I am also appreciative of Patek sharing this letter.
There is a good reason to have a companion to the 5131. Perhaps I need to write another post ? TH had a huge piece on his wrist 😉
Indeed you do!
Two posts in fact! One about your own Shchwarzkopf imitation and the other about TH's "huge piece" you somehow managed to see 😉😉
As you wish ! I will create a post of why I was double-twisted and get another
more qualified member to explain what TS wore 😉 We need a bit of time though 😃
3940 was a
good guess but it was something else (a huge piece). Another forum member might be sharing this info via a new post. Let’s wait
Appropriate and to the point;
Many thanks for sharing this internal document that speaks of the values of the company. Somehow they are still clinging to the quaint idea that a watch should be worn and enjoyed rather than seen as a trading commodity. I share these values. In my case t...
You are welcome, and great that Patek and your values are
are aligned ! Good that you enjoy wearing your watches 👍
Ban
I really think that an AD that is disloyal to PP directives should be banned - point. No discussion.
Patek is justifiably proud that Patek watches bought for the pure pleasure of ownership and joy of wearing can appreciate in value over many years to stratospheric levels. This is evidenced by Patek
listing recent auction results of some their finest VINTAGE watches in the Patek magazine. Mr. Stern’s letter makes crystal clear that regarding NEW watches Patek has no tolerance for their watches being purchased for the purpose of a quick profit or for ...
Dear Gordon,
Thank you for sharing your wonderful time at Tokyo. It’s extraordinary that you could meet Thierry Stern in person and got his formal response towards all those flipping phenomenons! BTW, your double-wristing of Rousseau lion and 5131P were eye catching 😊...
Hi Henry, yes Thierry Stern told me point blank that he does NOT
condone ADs selling double-sealed watches. We were so happy to hear this message in person with TS. BTW you have Eagle 🦅 eyes 👀 in spotting my watches !👍 Here are my previously encounters with TS. 😃 ☝️Beijing Maison opening party 2014 ☝️Singapore Grand Ex...
Memorable photos!
Getting to know Patek’s chairman in person does make the brand feel a bit like the “independents”, with sentimental touches 😊
Yes Henry, Patek is the top independent KING 🤴! Here are my previous posts on
Beijing Maison and Singapore 🇸🇬 exhibition. www.watchprosite.com www.watchprosite.com
Good start but more MUST be done!
I know Patek has try to be loyal and keep relationship with their AD but if Patek is to carry on with their “new base” clients who are truly keen about the time pieces and not profit speculation, they do need AD who sees the same way, strictly adhere to P...
👏👏👏
Well said and I agree that if one is shown as an “example” of what can happen then others will quickly and quietly fall in line. Punishments must be severe enough to be effective…and not just a “warning”. With the high demand on Patek references , I am su...
Thanks cbb for your suggestions ! You know and understand Patek well for generations, and certainly appreciate the loyalty required between the three parties.
"Stern" warnings followed up by tough actions will definitely help to deter unprofessional behaviors.
Fully in the camp of more must be done.
In addition to the warning letter, my suggestion is the AD which violated the strict rules of Patek should be put in an probationary period of at least 6 months or 12 months, only to receive minimum number of allocation from Patek. And ensure the AD to pu...
It´s known for years ...
... and I am wondering why there is even one more warning for AD´s.
Thanks for this information.
I am pleased to see Patek take what looks like serious action against this practice. It would be interesting to know if any AD’s have actually been struck off for such behaviour or indeed had their Patek dealership taken off them for any reason. As they s...
Hi Miles, Thierry told us that he was
very disappointed and unhappy about this situation and hence he wrote a “Stern” warning to all ADs. I am hopeful that this letter will be taken seriously by all !
My humble opinion.
Patek is an admired and distinguished brand. If I were PP I would immediately cut ties with the ADs involved. I would black list the sellers. No more warning, just action. It sends the message that Patek means it. A letter just means you would rather they...
Thanks for comments. IMO, although this AD behaved badly, it is
a large one that has spent many years building a very successful Patek business for both parties. Hence a warning first. Perhaps some heads from the AD also rolled behind the scenes ?
Patek has been revoking many ADs status a bit everywhere
Particularly in US. I’ve read many complaints from clients of affected ADs as they now need to start from zero to build new relationships with other ADs. Not sure if this action is related to the behaviour discussed here, but if so, even if just partially...
Yes, a good friend of mine and a forum member with an amazing collection had his
AD lost the Patek license due to no fault of his own. The AD was a family run business. I had asked him to reach out to Patek and Patek did introduce him to another AD to continue his Patek journey! Kudos to Patek ! 👍
I think the axe should fall....
if all of these were from 1 dealer. They know better. -Dean
The problem is not that watches are sold sealed!
The problem is that people are willing to pay more for such watches! In my case, as many times a sealed watch was offered(with a premium), I always told the dealer to cut and keep the plastic, so there you have the solution…
Since mid 2017 the policy imposed by Patek was to
sell only unsealed watches. At my Rolex AD, when the salesperson took off the small plastic stickers that were on to protect various parts of my new watch, she would then stick them on a piece of paper and took a photo to prove that all wrappings were rem...
Well, I guess I’m the rule breaker here;)
All my Rolex watches come with stickers present and I only buy the that way. But I don’t pay a premium for that and I don’t flip them either!
Gordon, the problem is money and there really isn’t a solution.
Whether it be an AD or a directly owned point of sale (for Patek or any brand where scarcity and access are part of the equation) the SAs and even the managers are having their influence bought through under the table “gifts” and side benefits. It would b...
Hi Jay, thanks for your reply with interesting side stories !
What did you see in NYC in terms of "compensation" for allocations and access ?
Is there a limit to warnings?
Don’t you think there have been enough warnings from Patek throughout the years? Patek and by extension TS have been saying strong actions will be taken should ADs be found to break the rules set by Patek. An additional letter won’t make a difference to b...
Welcome to our forum ! What do you
think Patek can do better ? Patek loves to hear from our members !😇 Please share your collection with us with your story 🤩
Yes I do!
I do think Patek can do better about penalising rogue ADs who go against Patek's policy of selling double sealed watches. I understand it can be difficult for ADs to police buyers who flip their watch quickly after purchase, and sometimes people who have ...
Yes ...
I am with you. There need to be consequences, even if someone loses turnover. Flippers are just pain in the a... for everyone.
To the extent that Patek suspends or pulls agreements with ADs
I think Patek should take care of the customer/client, at the end of the day, and help them continue relationships and a positive buying experience after they have maybe terminated an AD. Having a more centralized way of managing a customer and potentiall...
Valid point. This matter was also discussed amongst members
in another post www.watchprosite.com