Comments:
Best Patek Phillipe for 1st time buyer/investment
Thank you in advance as I really appreciate the advice of trusted Patek Phillipe collectors as yourself!
I am a big fan of Patek Phillipe and am ready to buy a great watch. I am looking to spend $15-25K on an investment grade watch. My question are as follows:
1. Should I look at vintage or new Patek Phillipe watches?
2. What options (complications) are the most desirable on the collector market, and which will increase in value the best?
3. If you could go back in time and purchase your first Patek Phillipe all over again (with my budget) what would you buy and why?
4. Any considerations or factors I should consider when looking for my Patek Phillipe?
5. Where are the best and most trusted places to purchase these watches?
Again, thanks for your time and your expertise!
I am a big fan of Patek Phillipe and am ready to buy a great watch. I am looking to spend $15-25K on an investment grade watch. My question are as follows:
1. Should I look at vintage or new Patek Phillipe watches?
2. What options (complications) are the most desirable on the collector market, and which will increase in value the best?
3. If you could go back in time and purchase your first Patek Phillipe all over again (with my budget) what would you buy and why?
4. Any considerations or factors I should consider when looking for my Patek Phillipe?
5. Where are the best and most trusted places to purchase these watches?
Again, thanks for your time and your expertise!
Yiour budget is a bit limited, but a second hand 5110 WT would do the job.
Hunt them on the net, it is a big part of the pleasure!
Best,
Nicolas
First of all: Welcome to PuristSPro and especially ...
our Patek Philippe forum!
It is a fair amount of money you would like to spend, even when the budget is kind of "tight" in the world of PP. So, what are you expecting to get? Something for 24/7 on the wrist and fitting to each lifestyle? Something for the safe and admiring at home, mainly? ...?
There are still quite a few interesting options, but when it comes to ("interesting") complications it gets even more challenging with your budget.
With more info we could try to give you appropriate advices.
Oliver
It is a fair amount of money you would like to spend, even when the budget is kind of "tight" in the world of PP. So, what are you expecting to get? Something for 24/7 on the wrist and fitting to each lifestyle? Something for the safe and admiring at home, mainly? ...?
There are still quite a few interesting options, but when it comes to ("interesting") complications it gets even more challenging with your budget.
With more info we could try to give you appropriate advices.
Oliver
5035
How about a nice 5035? A mint example with box and papers can usually be had within your price range, and is available in yellow, rose, or white gold.
Patek was the first to introduce the annual calender and it was immediately well received as a "useful" complication. Now long since discontinued, the 5035 represents a relative bargain for a Patek complication.
Great reference, great value, 100% Patek. Future value? Who knows, but its a classic that will look great on your wrist while you wait to find out!
Welcome!
Remember. Follow your heart.
This message has been edited by patrick_y on 2014-06-13 18:40:52
We need more details.
As Oliver stated, we hardly know who you are, how can you possibly expect us to give you adequate advice?
That's like me asking you what kind of car should I buy... You don't know if I live out in the woods, in the city, nor my lifestyle. You'd probably say a two door Porsche, but if I live in the woods, then that wouldn't work.
Tell us a bit about yourself... Help us help you.
Nico is right, you probably should consider the 5110 if you like classic style, 5711 if you want sporty.
1. You're not able to get a new one at that range. So you're looking at used modern watches.
2. World Time and annual calendars will fit in your budget.
3. Consider a 6000G, if you like the dial layout. That's one that I constantly think about. But most people don't like it.
4. Yeah, buy something that fits your lifestyle. Don't force yourself into a watch. It looks pathetic. All the responses here are going to be very general and have some bias since we don't know who you are and your preferences yet.
5. Buy from someone who's a big poster on this forum. Most of those people are reputable. And buy the seller. You need to trust the seller more than you want the watch.
All these answers are short answers to fairly complex questions. Good luck!
Where are you located?
With Patek there's a few roads to take
The one road is a nice Calatrava ... Your budget would cover this in vintage or almost new...
The second road is chronographs ... Your budget will not cover this.
The third road is complications... Also very much out of your budget.
Since you said 'investment grade' you have to be warned that watches are terrible investments, except in very rare instances, and even Pateks can be heartbreaking to resell if you are learning the hard way.
With that said, based on the minimal info we have, start digging around for a really nice vintage Calatrava.
They will be smaller watches but true representatives of the best Pateks.
Or you can do what most Patek collectors do... Increase your budget exponentially. 
Good luck.
Additional Personal Information
Thank you all for your great responses! I knew I would get some awesome advice, but never expected such amazing feedback and direction. I'm glad to hear that I'm not off the mark in my budget especially since I'm now leaning more towards a vintage versus new Patek Phillipe. The model suggestions are great and I will be sure to research all of them.
Here is some more information on me and my interests:
I live at the beach in Los Angeles, am in my early 40's, lead an active lifestyle, and enjoy traveling. I work in the business side of entertainment, don't spend much time in an office setting, usually occupy my time in meetings or on set, and work includes executive dinners, high profile events, etc. Currently I switch between two Movado watches (sport and dress models) for daily wear with business casual attire up to suits. When I think about my future Patek Phillipe I envision wearing it at least a few times a week, and especially to high end functions. I've always wanted a PP for personal pride and enjoyment, but also like the idea of people being impressed when they notice my watch.
Any suggestions on reputable dealers and stores that sell vintage Patek Phillipe watches would be greatly appreciated!
Tom
Here is some more information on me and my interests:
I live at the beach in Los Angeles, am in my early 40's, lead an active lifestyle, and enjoy traveling. I work in the business side of entertainment, don't spend much time in an office setting, usually occupy my time in meetings or on set, and work includes executive dinners, high profile events, etc. Currently I switch between two Movado watches (sport and dress models) for daily wear with business casual attire up to suits. When I think about my future Patek Phillipe I envision wearing it at least a few times a week, and especially to high end functions. I've always wanted a PP for personal pride and enjoyment, but also like the idea of people being impressed when they notice my watch.
Any suggestions on reputable dealers and stores that sell vintage Patek Phillipe watches would be greatly appreciated!
Tom
Don't buy labels, buy what you like...
First of all, that helps quite a bit.
You really shouldn't be taking a Patek Philippe (and in general any high-quality watch) golfing (the topic of golfing with a watch is debatable, but in general many watchmakers advise against it), swimming, or stuff that would be considered athletic. So that's something to consider if you plan on being athletic. Taking this watch to the gym or to the tennis court is probably not a good idea. I know of a lady who does exercising and kickboxing with her Rolex on the whole time and that watch needs a service every two years.
Considering that you're coming from two Movado watches, this is really your first foray into the world of high-end watches. And you're really going to the top of the top. Like starting a game of Monopoly and hitting Boardwalk on your first roll of the dice. A lot of people do this now, sometimes for the wrong reasons.
Considering you don't really stay in an office and you're always on set, perhaps a Rolex may actually be a better watch for you.
If you wanted to go for something classic, yet still complex, the 5110 WorldTime is a great choice. You mentioned you enjoy traveling, but you won't benefit from this complication unless you're a serious greater than 50,000 airline miles traveler a year (or you have a tremendous amount of conference calls with people in multiple far-away timezones). Still, regardless of whether or not you use the complication of the 5110, it's an extremely beautiful watch that you will enjoy.
I'm going to say you should consider a Patek Philippe 5167A. Aka "The Aquanaut" model. It's a sportier-looking watch with a date, automatic winding, and supplied on a rubber strap. They're in your budget new. You may find the 5711/1A a good choice too, but warning, the 5711/1A is a huge scratch magnet. Both the 5711 and 5167 are sportier classic watches.
Also, consider the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak. It boasts an even more recognizable design and is also in your price range. This is another sporty classic watch. It's priced similarly to the above Patek Philippes and are just as well made. In fact, the 15202 models of the Royal Oak series are even better than the 5711 Patek Philippe model in terms of movement design and movement finishing.
Your next steps are to think this; 1, classic watch; or 2, sporty classic watch. The beauty of the sporty classic watches I mentioned is that they're all quite thin and will fit under dress shirt cuffs and French cuffs so it'll really work with your lifestyle.
And think hard Tom. Many people are drawn to the brand Patek Philippe because they're label conscious. I'd almost prefer you to fall in love with a watch and buy that (even if it's not a Patek Philippe). But try them out and give it a shot. I also would not hesitate to check out Rolex while you're at it. Great watches, and at half the price of Patek Philippe or Audemars Piguet. The main thing is not to get target fixation on any brand. The more you know and the more you'll see past the marketing.
Do some research about Audemars Piguet (aka "AP"). AP is one of the "Big Three" in Switzerland. The Big Three are; Vacheron Constantin, Audemars Piguet, and Patek Philippe. These three brands have always been in the ultra-high horology field and have always offered the highest in terms of movement quality and complexity. Vacheron Constantin is the oldest company, with more than 100 years of experience than Patek Philippe. Audemars Piguet has an illustrious history with their repeating watches, arguably they have the most impressive history in repeating (chiming, ding dong) watches. Out of these three, 150 years ago, Patek Philippe would've been considered the least impressive among the three brands. Think of Patek Philippe like Audi when the other were Mercedes-Benz and BMW. But today, Patek Philippe is the volume leader among the three.
Lastly, just experiment with these two other watches; Blancpain Bathyscaphe and the Panerai. These are more fun watches, but trust me, the Blancpain's movement has the quality of a Patek Philippe movement (I could even argue that the finishing of the movement is even better on the Blancpain). Most Panerai watches have less elaborate movements but it's such a fun and lovable watch that you really should try.
Check out these links...
Now that you've told us more about yourself...
I would dismiss the vintage Patek suggestion, and go contemporary.... a vintage Patek is not about others noticing it... if they do, it will be very infrequent... to never, in the ordinary world. Hollywood types will generally have a more cultivated consciousness of contemporary Patek. Plus, the smallness of vintage Pateks will make them go unnoticed in blingy settings.
Been there, done that.
Your budget doesn't permit it, but in your business and position, and for your desired purposes, I would go for something like a 5712... really spot on for your desires...
Stretch your budget a bit... to around high 20's. low 30's. Pre-owned, like new.
Good luck.
This message has been edited by Mostel on 2014-06-28 15:57:05
Been there, done that.
Your budget doesn't permit it, but in your business and position, and for your desired purposes, I would go for something like a 5712... really spot on for your desires...
Stretch your budget a bit... to around high 20's. low 30's. Pre-owned, like new.
Good luck.
This message has been edited by Mostel on 2014-06-28 15:57:05
Hello
In my opinion, although your budget may seem a little limited for a Patek, I believe you can get a great Patek for $25k and under. The 5110 world timer has been correctly mentioned and so has the 5711 nautilus. I would also suggest the 3960 (150th anniversary) , the 5054 and 5055(power reserve moonphase watch). In fact the latter two can almost be argued good value for money as they offer all the complications of the 5712/1A nautilus but unlike the steel nautilus, you will be getting a complicated Patek in gold.
1. Buy new and you will be limited to calatravas and aquanauts. Buy used or vintage and I believe you will be open to a wider variety and get better value for money.
2. World time or power reserve/moonphase would be within your budget.
3. If I had to go back in time, my first Patek would be the 3960 (as above). It is a small size but I have a small wrist and it will look fresh decades from now. I might still buy one soon!
4. If you buy used , try to ensure that the watch comes with its certificate of origin and original box. I realise that some people will settle for an extract from the archives but psychologically, I feel that if a watch has been kept well, the owner would be careful with the original box and paperwork.
5. There are many good second hand dealers around. Get a feel for what they normally sell, the warranty provided and the service provided. You can get a feel just by talking or emailing a dealer. Sorry we are not allowed to suggest dealer names or website addresses on this forum.
Happy hunting!
Sham
Buy a 5711 1/a with blue dial....Cheers,
Hard to find and a classic that will never go out of style. Demand greater than supply...Easy choice for me.
An answer with a question.....
.....your budget gives you a degree of freedom. However, a great deal depends on what type of watch you enjoy wearing. If you were going modern, then I have to say that I would agree with Nicolas and head for the 5110G...... if, on the other hand, you wanted vintage, I have been writing a few times on the wonderful Calatravas that are available from the 1960s that are lower in price than a modern Calatrava. Reference 3445, 2508 or 2509.... all of these would work.....BUt...it really does depend on your taste and desire for a watch. try them on....see how they feel. Don't look at it as an investment of money but rather an investment in YOURSELF. This watch will be with you all the time....so get something you love.
Once you have decided which watch suits your taste, PM me and I will point you at the places to look.
Best,
Joe
to ccolakid: for modern collection, with your budget I suggest...
...5167 aquanaut (perhaps with the bracelet) because there is always a line up at my AD (which is well known for Patek watches in Hong Kong) to get this basic but useful watch.
have fun in your hunt !!
Gordon
with the budget you have
you can go fie a bnib 5167
used 5110
or maybe a almost new 5711(depending on what discount u can get)
used 5712
depending on your lifestyle and what watches you have alrdy.
for avtive everyday wear, the nautilus and the aquanaut
for office everyday and travelling, maybe the 5110
but all the watches i suggested will not be limited for casual or dressy use
5085
I would look at the 5085. You obviously have to like the looks of any watch you buy, but for value, I think this is it. It has the cal. 240 micro rotor, and the purpose of this caliber is to save space. So Patek encased it with a watch case that is thin and perfectly matches the size of the caliber. I believe it was also the first semi complication Patek put in a steel watch.
careful with the 2526 for a newbie
Definitely iconic, and a fabulous vintage Patek - but be very careful. An original and uncracked dial is the key here. The value (and investment grade as the OP indicated) is largely in its porceline dial. Even a small hairline can knock thousands off the price if not more. Doubt that a nice original example could be had in the price range that he's looking. On the other hand, that would be a great investment piece.
Dial
As you write the dial is the 60% of the value of 2526.
It is the easyiest thing to evaluate, also for a newbie.
Another fundamental tip for newbie: Buy such a watch in shop, not in internet. And from well known expert shop: it is better to pay 10/15% more! but buy a perfect vintage watch!!!
friend..
patek 5035 black dial all the way. rose gold if you can. best bang per buck!
Congratulations on your decision to buy a Patek.
I would think a newer piece would be more lifestyle friendly with sapphire crystal and proper gasketing for water resistant capabilities than a vintage piece.
Some of the pieces I would consider would be along these lines:
5115
5035
3960
5100
5015
Pagoda (forget the ref #)
5054
These are interesting pieces in their own right which would be well within your price point for your consideration.
Take a look at these and see what you think.
Good Luck!
Some of the pieces I would consider would be along these lines:
5115
5035
3960
5100
5015
Pagoda (forget the ref #)
5054
These are interesting pieces in their own right which would be well within your price point for your consideration.
Take a look at these and see what you think.
Good Luck!
Decision made... it's the 5110
I knew I was in the right group! Thank you to everyone for the great watch recommendations and suggestions! As soon as I saw the 5110 World Time I instantly knew I found "my watch". It looks awesome! I was really interested in dual time zone vintage watches until I found this one which has everything I wanted and more. The 5110 definitely fits my stile as I love to travel, have been to many of the places on the dial, and everyone I show pics of the watch to thinks it looks great. Now I have some more follow up questions regarding the watch:
1. I am torn between 5110J yellow gold versus 5110P platinum. I think both looks are great, and wanted to hear what you would choose? Most days I wear business/casual attire and suits maybe once a month.
2. When I purchase the 5110 what kind of documentations and other items should I expect to come with it? I'm assuming since it's not that old I can still find one with the original box? How about a Certificate Of Authenticity from Pattek Phillipe? If I find a watch without a COA should I be alarmed or can I get on still from PP?
3. I live in the Los Angeles area so any recommendations on quality dealers to find the 5110? I don't mind driving to Orange or San Diego counties either if I need to.
Thanks again for all of your help!
1. I am torn between 5110J yellow gold versus 5110P platinum. I think both looks are great, and wanted to hear what you would choose? Most days I wear business/casual attire and suits maybe once a month.
2. When I purchase the 5110 what kind of documentations and other items should I expect to come with it? I'm assuming since it's not that old I can still find one with the original box? How about a Certificate Of Authenticity from Pattek Phillipe? If I find a watch without a COA should I be alarmed or can I get on still from PP?
3. I live in the Los Angeles area so any recommendations on quality dealers to find the 5110? I don't mind driving to Orange or San Diego counties either if I need to.
Thanks again for all of your help!
In your business.... buy white metal...
platinum or white gold goes with your business.
Never buy a Patek without complete box and papers. EVER!
If buying used, beware, beware, beware.
Good luck.
Never buy a Patek without complete box and papers. EVER!
If buying used, beware, beware, beware.
Good luck.