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The SE vs non-SE Strategy
I read a blog story recently on how the most desired and valued watch brands, such as Patek Philippe and Rolex, do not rely on making/selling special edition watches. One could argue the supply of some PP complication pieces so exceed the demand that they might as well all be limited editions and some Daytonas being the watch that 'no one can get but everyone has'. I may be wrong, but other than the charity and Advanced Research pieces, PP and Rolex completely debunk the strategy of using SE watches to attract attention and/or drive sales.
On the flip(per) side (you decide if pun should be intended or not), brands like Panerai and Audemars Piguet depend heavily on SEs to make their sun shines. How many more SE ROOs for each regular-production ROOs model? When was the last time a non-SE Panerai caught our lustful eyes? I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with this strategy per se; it's the brand's prerogative at the end of the day and it's impossible to please their customers -- the purists, neophytes and flippers too -- all at the same time.
What I think is 'wrong' (others may not subscribe to my point of view), with the 360 at least, is 'faking' patina. That kind of take the pride out of owning real T-dial watches. I used to think that making more Cali dials after the 249 was a little insulting too, but I've gotten over that. And not sure if jacking up the prices of watches on Minerva movements to the stratosphere is altogether right either. And I am not even going to open the can of worms on how SEs get from factory to owners!
Which brings me to why I think what Panerai is doing with the 372 (and 422) is so commendable. With the 000 and 005, I think these watches offer the Panerai DNA in its design, and in numbers and prices that cater to every one of its fans. Bravo. I sure hope Panerai continue to produce non-SEs in such calibre and, if they must continue making SEs, at least make them truly worthy to be 'Special'.
The fuss on 360 BBQ
I know the 360 is a "special" edition but is it really that special? I noticed the price has multiplied in the 2nd hand market like 4 times the retail price. Thoughts? cheers PAt
All this is very subjective.
Sorry for the evidence, but the god price is the price people is willing to pay. If nobody is willing to pay such a price, you will see the difference. Special, it is in a negative way. At the beginning, it was a watch destined to the Community of Paneris...
I hope
that one day we will have our own PPro Panerai (priced for mortals too :) ) and that this piece will never become ;) Best Damjan ...
It's pretty much the...
whatever loats your boat,...scenario. I, personally, find it "prefabricated" and therefore highly unattractive and wouldn't buy it...retail.. :-) Ciao - Sergio
No
Its a grail watch for some. Agree with the other comments, not a very pretty watch the logo looks awful. But one man's food is another man's poison. If someone wants to pay x amount good luck to them. In my opinion not worth the silly money being asked !
it is beautifull and rare, this makes the price
Is a Panerai 36 an special watch ? No it is not ! Panerai collectors will say it's special but let's be fair .... after all it's just another 44 mm luminor. In titanium with brown dial and some extra text on the dial. Same can be said about so many Panera...
What if...much like you...
I were to object to the 360 being beautiful? The 36 is the first titanium model, it has the Marina Militare on the dial which, for a Panerai, it's always a sign of distinction and has a very nice...tritium...dial, instead of the..faux crap..on the 360. It...
yeah but
isn't that 'marina miliare' on the dial just BS ? It doesn't make the watch more pretty, does it ? :-) And than the fact of being the first titanium ... so what ? If this makes the price, the 339 should be 5 times listprice ;-) The first composite and pro...
.... and I agree the price is insane
but that can be said about many, many Panerai watches
The Pam 36 was another kind of stuff, my friend.
It was part of the Projetto Slytech, was Panerai first attempt into Titanium case ( along with the 40, which seems to be the first, though ), had a superb brown dial an tritium indexes, and was made with the autorization from the Mamma Mia. When it was re...
I agree that the 36 was not a hype from the beginning
and the 360 was a hype a year before the first was delivered But imo this is because Panerai was not famous when they made the 36. If they would make something like a 36 today and also very limited, it would also fetch 4 times listprice in no time. For me...
Because you don't understand Vintage.
And you know that they are ( the authentic, not the re assembled, fake, and so on ) vey rare. This is a very subjective topic: Do you really think the Patek 5070, on the second market) with its Lemania movement, is worth twice the value of a Duometre or a...
pp - Lange
The Dato was always easy to get with a good discount and that's why the secondhand value was or is not that great. If AP or Panerai would make limited editions in series of 10.000 pieces instead of a few hundred to max 2 K they would also drop in value th...
The fact that Panerai's history, either escapes you or
better yet, doesn't interest you at all, it's pretty clear to me. I honestly do not know why prices go....crazy. Couple of pictures too. No faux-patina-tritium crap on this dial... :-) Ciao - Sergio ...
LOL
and you have the 36 ? :-) I should have taken another example Well, the history is interesting to me but I have problems with the hyper inflated prices often forced by it's 'history' Not only Panerai, a Rolex Comex or PN for 50 to 100 K ??? To me a Comex ...
Truth is, collectors will be collectors....
and they will ALWAYS drive the market. The hulla-balloo, behind a model is a dead give away. But other details are pretty much random. One thing though, if you get and old T dial, and you put it next to the 360, you'll know exactely what I'm talking about...
Matter of fact, I prefer the 195 to the 360....
I don't like the model (much as I don't like the 26K, for instance). But at least it doesn't have anything I consider...fake...in it. :-) Ciao - Sergio
hi guys, really really appreciate all of you chiming in with your views.
To start it off, the background to this is that I know 2 local folks in Sg have recently acquired the 360 at what I thought to be insane price (as many of you might deem so). And they did not bat an eyelid on this (maybe they are millionaires or whatsnot)...
it's a simple fact ....
that mad prices will always stand as long as there's a fool who is ready to pay for it !! no matter what his reasons are. The rest is pure personal taste or like and dislike and that's good, we wouldn't want all to be wearing the same piece on our wrist h...
Sounds a bit like the financial crisis musical chairs not too long ago Patrick
and as Mr Greenspan puts it "irrational exuberence"? cheers PAt
People will pay for ...
Shit! Literally. One can of Artist's shit (1961) by piero Manzoni was sold for Euro 124,000 at Sotheby's on May 23rd. 2007. Another tin was sold in Oct. 2008 for 97,250 pounds stirling! There's no accounting for taste - yuck!! :) F
Are you Fre....ing serious Fernando? People will pay for human waste matter?
Dang....and I thought we were insane just buying watches at crazy prices... cheers PAt
When something is designated as "Art"...
and acclaimed by the so-called experts or connoisseurs, someone somewhere will want it in their "collection". :)
Insidious crap job of a watch...One of the worse decision ever made by Bonatti, IMHO.
Design is so so, but not ugly. But so are many pams, and they don't cost as much. Wouldn't be surprised if prices start to drop soon, if not already, like so many other pams. Best, Horo
Price did drop compare to last year
It is an exciting idea but without enough substance to carry thru. The notion of owning a PreV logo is exciting but wearing a fabricated looking even with some pvd can only go so far. I like the watch I just don't like it pretend to be special in a way it...
Same thing like what's happening to the 372? See many on sale right now.
Also see the fiddy out now. Too many similar looking ones ard now. Cheers PAt
that's because of the N-series
a lot ( including me) thought it would stop after the O series 3500 pieces is more than enough and they should have ended the production. The 372 was a watch they should have used to start this new model ( 422 423 - and thise that will follow) with the ne...
Good to see the 372 not limited to 3500.
Panerai was clear, at least this time. They said that the production was a millesime, which meant that we had to expect a bit more. Good, in my opinion, becauseit is a watch for Panerai lovers, and the more Panerai will produce, the more Panerai Lovers wi...
yeah, right....
like that's going to happen. Don't forget that a, truly successful marketing campaign, entails slow deliveries.. :-) There'll always be someone out there that won't "bother" waiting for the next delivery (God knows when) and fork out just a...wee bit...mo...
Could not agree more
OP is doing what they said they would do, and making a great piece available to any fan of the brand who wants it. How is that not a good thing?
Re: Good to see the 372 not limited to 3500
Yes and I hope the 372 (and the 422) elevate the 000 and 005 a little, and make them more appealing as the current/modern classics in a 44 case size. As a brand relying on History, though it's trying hard to distract with their exotic metals, as its USP, ...
Couldn't have said it better myself, Nico...
I, for one, hope they continue to make this watch for a long time to come. Everyone who wants one should be able to put one on their wrist because it's THAT GOOD: [IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n257/craniotes/Panerai%20372/372-1.jpg[/IMG] As for ...
Damn nice photo, my friend.
That will give me some time to get one... I bet I will get one with time passing. Thanks for the superb photo, Adam. Best, Nicolas
The SE vs non-SE Strategy
I read a blog story recently on how the most desired and valued watch brands, such as Patek Philippe and Rolex, do not rely on making/selling special edition watches. One could argue the supply of some PP complication pieces so exceed the demand that they...
Well said and I know what you mean. ESP on the ROO.
But the ROO Fans would disagree vehemently. I'm not a big ROO fan anyway. Cheers PAt
I see your points, and agree with most of them...
But the Cali PAM 249 was the first watch to have this Faux patina, and the 372 does as well.....I think if you crucify one, then you must crucify all of them.....
If we ever have a PuristS edition Panerai model, it would definitely
utilize one of the in-house movements, not the basic Unitas movement, as I'd want our edition to be more special. Therefore, the price of ours would definitely be higher than that of the PAM360's. Remember, this is all on the basis if we ever get a Purist...
Hi Anthony this sounds GOOD! I just hope the price point would remain "affordable" to
church mice like me. :) I'm very sure Purists here would have theie inputs on the design and wishlist. cheers PAt
That's a great idea Anthony
in-house movement would make it a definite PuristS edition. Cheers, Lou in SoCal
i will start saving now!!!
if i have a vote: my favorite movements are the 2002/9 or the 3001
I don't think the movement is important, as it never was the most important part
In a Panerai... Which historically was a laboratorio de ideas, an assembler, which still is the case as the so called in house movement is in fact made by Valfleurier. I would be more exigent on the dial and case...For a Purist Edition, and on the fact th...
with the way Panerai is going, their "in house" movement would be in all future watches.
If there's ever a Purists edition, I hope it's not limited to 300! (sounds like a movie of great heroics and violence) should we start a wishlist of the desired PPAM aka Purist PAM?hehehe.... cheers PAt
Question
Hey Anthony, if we ever got a special edition, how would we decide who got one ?
We'll decide on that later if the time ever comes
but obviously people who participate in the forum would get more preference over someone who's never posted here at all. It only makes sense to have it this way should we ever get an approval from Panerai for a PuristS Edition which hopefully can have a p...
thanks for sharing that Anthony.
For the 10th anniversary, I was hoping for a PuristSPro Panerai Edition. And for that price range, you can get a nice in-house movement and being a long time risti, I am sure you will incorporate much DNA into the piece.. guess we can keep hoping...Thanks...
In that case it better be a titanium or composite model...
I don't think I'll be able to wear anything...heavier....at that jucture of my life...hahahahahaha Cheers