Spangles - Dr. Tabby
5595
They are really not the same thing or concept!
The double wheel and co-axials all come from A.L. Breguet's Natural Escapement, a lubrication-free escapement with clear advantages over the swiss lever. Unfortunately, there was an issue of backlash in the gears that Breguet couldn't solve with the engineering of his day and he had to abandon the movement.
You may want to dive deeply into it, but the short answer is that KV's version has the same issues as the original, but with today's fine tolerances, these are small enough that you have an accurate wristwatch. KV's daughter is learning the trade, so maybe she will take over!
George Daniels solved the problem entirely. First with his genius double impulse impulse chronometer escapement (used in his famous Space Traveller, which you should look up right now). With the engineering of his time, he thought it was too large a movement for a wristwatch. The 42mm, 10mm thick Frodsham is the first ever wristwatch to use this movement. It is truly lubricant free and should have excellent rate stability.
The brillant co-axial was George Daniels' way to take his ideas and apply them in a form that could more easily fit a wristwatch. Wristwatches with this escapement tend to be on the thicker side, and require a tiny bit of lubricant in the escapement if silicon parts are not used. However, they are known for having excellent rate stability.
That's the short answer, I'll let more knowledgeable folks chime in with additions/corrections.
KV, RWS, RG and FPJ?
Been looking for my first independent watch, and done my research. Each comes with own merits, and own focus. My list comes down to KV, RWS, RG and FPJ (maybe Urban Jürgensen’s P8 too) So what would u guys say for each particular strength (or weakness)? O...
Apple and pears
JFP, you just need to go to the boutique and see for yourself. Some wonderful stuff. Very different with the other 3. With KV, RS and RG you get much more bespoke type of work. Much more a project, a confidential project, and therefore much more waiting t...
RW Smith
would take a lot longer because he currently produces 10 to 12 watches a year whereas Kari Voutilainen produces 40 plus. Still very small numbers but you can see how the waiting list accumulates. I am waiting for a RW Smith Series 2 and one thing to bear ...
Wow thats quite a lot of range to choose from...
All offering different things! First I would take out FPJ from the list. Their watches are stunning are are truly beautiful, but you buy 'off the shelf' so you get what they offer. You cannot go wrong with an FPJ, but it is the least 'independent' out of ...
Thanks
Yah my choice is now down to KV and RWS.. I somehow met a collector here who might be able to show both RWS and KV in person.. hopefully it would make the decision easier (or harder really haha) Anyway, it will come to down to $$$ too, as I have only real...
Price range?
Hi Sham1 Do u know the price range for RWS series 1? After consultation with other collectors, indeed RWS is growing on me.. But if not mistaken, RWS s1 YG is about £81k whereas KV vintg 8 platinum is about 85k CHF.. so reality checks in as I am hoping fo...
As Roger revises his prices,
it is best to contact him directly (see website) to get the latest price. Kari's prices are more stable and the price you quoted for his watches varies depends on the model and the metal you choose which I you may be aware of. In terms of metals, Kari als...
With FPJ, you get a decad of boutiques around the world with an additional service center in N.A. as well.
So, it's an independent, but with some of the advantages of a bigger brand for service and customer care. FPJ watches are very much meant to be everyday wearers, even the sonneries. Of course, you can do that with any of these, but FPJs wear very well and...
I would look carefully at the finishing of each, as they are in different styles.
Consider also the size and width of each one and how it will be on your wrist, day in and day out. Above a certain width and the watch will not easily slide under a shirt cuff. Is that an issue that you may notice after several weeks of wearing? Consider ...
Frodsham is great, I also recommend it
The only down side is the size at 42.2mm. If you are serious you should get on it quickly because there is a 3-4 years' waiting list since they launched last year. Given the style and low key finishing, I suspect the buyers are not your run of the mill co...
I guess I fall in that category, too!
Is the wait really 3-4 years now? Has the price gone up since that initial raise a few months after the roll-out?
Yes
I found out the waiting time is 3-4 years because I just got on the queue. The price has def increased since launch like you said but I don't know when it took place. And they can't guarantee there wont be further price increase(on the new price) down the...
Congratulations!
What metal and markers option did you go for? I am awaiting a 22k with romans one in 1st quarter 2020. The 42mm seems like the only caveat for me. It will fit my wrist no problem, it's only that I bought a 36mm watch and love it... As for price raises, th...
That's actually my favourite case material
22k case..... Do share when you get yours. I went for white gold and Arabic. Super envious at the pricing and timing! Unfortunately they might raise price, they were candid about this. I think this applies to people later in the queue because of the time ...
Wg and arabic is going be an awesome daily wearer!
The 22k was too special to miss, but will be up my sleeve when I wear it out! Everything about Frodsham seems above board, it just seems to be how they do it. No compromises. Their pricing seems to be very fair based on the scale they are working at. Even...
Great feedback!
Great feedback guys! Appreciate it Unfortunately I currently live in Australia, and FPJ is probably the “best indie” I can get here, with very limited stocks. That’s why visiting workshops is very difficult for me, and I have to rely on internet research ...
You can definitely pick up from workshop. I don't know of any indis that doesn't welcome that.
But you should take note who speaks fluent English and who only has a basic command of it. Bring along a friend to translate if possible.
Thats the great part of getting a watch from independent brand
to visit the workshop and meet thewatchmakers in person. Gives the watch so much more value imho
I was looking for something similar...
Things that were important to me: - Customization options (especially the dial) - A nice looking case that was not thick - A nice looking movement - Responsiveness to email and the back and forth that comes with customization I looked at the same brands a...
Movement?
Thanks guys.. one more silly question. KV calls it “double wheel escapement” Charles Frodsham “double impulse escapement” UJ’s P8 pivoted detent escapement RWS co axial Are they really the same thing or concept? By the way, one thing with indis, say KV, w...
They are really not the same thing or concept!
The double wheel and co-axials all come from A.L. Breguet's Natural Escapement, a lubrication-free escapement with clear advantages over the swiss lever. Unfortunately, there was an issue of backlash in the gears that Breguet couldn't solve with the engin...
Coudn't have said it better.
There is a bit of an evolution story. Urban Jurgensen pivoted detent escapement. Dentent escapement is typically coveted by watch makers but because it only gives a single impulse in a cycle it is susceptible to shocks. Their version mitigated it somewhat...