Sylvester "Sly" Stallone - A True Watch Collector and The Importance of Provenance

Dec 17, 2020,12:30 PM
 

 Moderator Patrick_y explores how the importance of Provenance affects values in the watch market in one example; the case of famous actors. 




Disgraced financier Bernie Madoff's collection of 40+ watches were auctioned off quickly, quietly, and some pieces sold for insultingly low amounts, far below their estimates.  Many cultures regard a man's (or a woman's) watch as a lucky talisman, seems like Madoff's watches were ultimately unlucky, as time eventually ran out for the disgraced financier. 

 

The opposite is true for Sylvester Stallone, often called "Sly" among colleagues and friends.  While not every movie that starred him was always a fantastic movie, he certainly had more than his fair share of blockbuster performances.  The undoubtedly charming actor is so easily recognized, it's estimated around 70% of the nearly 8 Billion souls on this planet would recognize the actor's appearance.  That means more people on the planet recognize Stallone's mug (mug is a colloquial term for face) than they do famous world leaders (USA Presidents, Chancellor Merkel, Xi, Putin)!  What is it about Stallone that makes him so likable?  He's philanthropic, he's known to be "down to earth" as he enjoys joking and chatting with waiters and busboys at restaurants when he's in a happy mood, and he's a famous celebrity with all the dance moves... 




Stallone isn't afraid to bust out his dance moves even on television.  The actor is still young at heart and has even been known to dance and sing with waiters and waitresses at restaurants on occasion. 

 

We have to look closely at the Panerai Luminor, as the brand Panerai was basically relaunched by this actor’s passion for the brand.  Stallone’s Panerai Luminor from the movie Daylight, was sold at auction and raised a very impressive sum of money.  About 40X what a current equivalent model would cost today.  Is the celebrity component worth a 40X delta?  Today a steel Rolex Daytona retails for around $13,000; recently, Paul Newman’s personal timepieces that have hit auction have ranged from 400X ($5.4M Rolex Daytona sold in 2020) to 1400X ($14.7M Paul Newman Daytona sold in 2017).  That suggests that Stallone’s Panerai Luminor went on the low end…  Maybe I should’ve bid more (joking)! 




The famous Panerai Luminor that was worn by Stallone in the film Daylight.  It sold for over 40X what an equivalent new model would sell for new today.  Photo credit: Phillips Auctioneers  To whomever acquired that Panerai Daylight in the recent auction: You made a great purchase!  Not only is the piece likely to appreciate in value significantly in the future, it's definitely an amazing and significant piece from one of the most important actors from Hollywood.  May it bring you good dance moves when you wear it! 

 

Stallone is also another individual who truly likes watches and regards them as lucky charms.  He is known to gift watches to colleagues and employees.  He also “rediscovered” Panerai and started a renaissance for the brand.  He’s often seen sporting two watches, one on each wrist; I recall once seeing an IWC Big Pilot and a Panerai Luminor on his wrists at the same time.  Over the years, he’s owned and gifted dozens if not hundreds of watches.  Like Jackie Chan and Pierce Brosnan he’s probably one of the biggest film stars who is really into watches and public about his passion.  Stallone is a true watch aficionado it seems, in some ways more publicly devout than even Steve McQueen and Paul Newman.  And like McQueen and Newman, Stallone also starred in a racing movie, Driven.  Although Driven wasn't one of Stallone's famous movies like Rocky, Rambo, or the more recent Expendables franchises, Driven is a highly regarded film among motorsports aficionados. 




Stallone's colleagues in one of his latest movies.  Some of these actors have received watches as gifts from Stallone in past movies. 

 

The future is likely to be kind to famous movie stars' timepieces.  As one of the most recognizable names in the world, Hollywood stars have always enjoyed a strange public obsession for their personal and even deeply personal property.  Nightgowns and undergarments from Marilyn Monroe’s closet are coveted by collectors worldwide (I wonder what the collectors’ spouses think of this obsession).  Paul Newman’s watches enjoy multi-million dollar bids.  Elizabeth Taylor’s jewels (often from jeweler Harry Winston) seem to get a little more attention at auction.  And now we can say, Stallone’s timepieces get similar appreciation.  It seems the general public likes good-luck talismans with former celebrity owners.  What else outside of watches can be considered a “good luck charm?”  I’m searching for the next non-watch talisman.  Hopefully I get something good before the smart money start looking for non-watch objects belonging to famous movie stars...







Stallone and his spouse Jennifer Flavin.  Notice the Roland Iten belt buckle (the super-mechanical belt buckle for watch lovers).  He definitely likes his mechanical objects! 


As always, I look forward to reading your comments.  As a rule, we don't discuss values and prices on WatchProSite, but here we are discussing a different aspect about collecting, in this case collecting watches owned by former celebrities.  Who's watch (or other property) would you like to own?  A movie star's (Stallone, Brad Pitt, George Clooney)?  A world leader's (USA President, Kofi Anan, The Queen, etc.)?  A famous businessman or investor's (Warren Buffet, Elon Musk, Tim Cook)?  A famous philathropist or activist (Ghandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Mother Teresa, Princess Diana)?  A spiritual leader's watch (The Pope, The Imam, The Dalai Lama)?  Feel free to share your opinions! 


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Neil Armstrong's Speedmaster would be a nice one

 
 By: VinnieD : December 17th, 2020-12:52
Or the Dalai Lama's complicated Patek

Excellent choices! I agree, an Omega that's actually been to outerspace would be REALLY COOL.

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-12:55
Those are good ones! The Dalai Lama's Patek Philippe... That's quite a watch with quite a story! Definitely a very special piece. And that'd be incredible provenance! Remember Gandhi's Zenith watch?

I did not know it

 
 By: VinnieD : December 17th, 2020-13:21
You mean the alarm pocket watch?

Yup! That's the one!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-15:37
www.hautetime.com Vijay Mallya, the Indian Billionaire who is now living in the UK and being prosecuted in India bought it in a lot that contained Gandhi's glasses and sandals.

Interesting topic, very well presented

 
 By: mrds : December 17th, 2020-13:21
I don‘t mean to spoil the party here and I appreciate Sly Stallone both as an actor and as a person. But the value I put on a watch that once belonged to him over the same watch from Mr. Smith is precisely zero. Same for a watch from Angelina Jolie, Donal... 

Agreed. I totally understand how the stories and provenance connected to a watch can be appealing to collectors but it's not really something that resonates with me. Love the movies though :)

 
 By: Fastwong : December 17th, 2020-13:39
The exception would be in the negative - if the watch was worn by Hitler, the Zodiac killer, Trump, that kind of history I would want to know so definitely DO NOT buy it. Superstitious and silly perhaps but hey, there's plenty of watches out there, no rea... 

Historical awareness

 
 By: George Gently : December 18th, 2020-02:04
Mentioning Adolf Hitler and Donald Trump in a sentence the way you did, shows a tremendous lack if historical awareness and belittles and trivialises what Hitler and Nazi Germany did to world.

Dear George, just to take some heat out of this discussion

 
 By: mrds : December 18th, 2020-04:29
I don‘t think Fastwong meant to compare Trump and Hitler in any way. He merely mentioned two people he wouldn’t want to have watches from. Me grouping Mrs. Jolie, Mr. Trump and the Pope together also makes a pretty heterogeneous group. Naturally I am with... 

Certainly a very fair thing!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-15:39
I agree, I'm not big on the celebrity endorsement thing neither. But I'm sure there are some people whom are and find that a piece once owned by a famous person is even more valuable than a non-famous person. That's why I keep on asking myself... Who's wa... 

I actually recall something now...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-15:48
I actually had the opportunity to buy the original manuscript for a book, a first-edition of that same book, and a pen belonging to a specific author whom I liked a long time ago. Back in the day, despite being a collector of fountain pens, I assigned no ... 

Fourth picture down, which movie was that?

 
 By: India Whiskey Charlie : December 17th, 2020-13:29

Will you settle for his pencil?

 
 By: vitalsigns : December 17th, 2020-13:54

The one who owns a LeBaron

 
 By: India Whiskey Charlie : December 17th, 2020-18:30

SUPER GOOD ONE! I very vaguely remember that Seinfeld episode. Gotta watch all the Seinfelds again.

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-15:41
When I first watched Seinfeld I didn't find it as funny as I do today!

The result of the recently auctioned Sly's Pam is extremely low, compared to the any basic PN

 
 By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : December 17th, 2020-14:23
What does it mean? Is it the brand, is is the Star behind the watch, is the value of the asset? Those icons have no appeal to me. I couldn't care less (and I don't actually) about the first watch on the moon, the Pope, the US president or any other famous... 

Agreed, it does seem a tad bit low. But it is high for a Panerai!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-15:43
I can't comment about the price ten years ago though.

That's actually a great common deominator!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-17:13
You're right! If it was a movie star who owned a cool watch, but who wasn't passionate about watches, it wouldn't be as important... Stallone is definitely into mechanical things in general, especially mechanical watches.

😊

 
 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : December 17th, 2020-18:04

Authenticity, uniqueness, history and more

 
 By: PoyFR : December 17th, 2020-17:48
Of course for most here we probably do not attach much attention on how famous was the previous owner of a timepiece, though… The value of such pieces are in many cases much less than the value of other valuables, for examples : letters 6 or 7 millions, p... 

I agree, let the dance continue!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 17th, 2020-17:51
Lots of good points there!

:)

 
 By: amanico : December 17th, 2020-21:10

I totally get your way of thinking. One thing I like to read is your estimation of vintage Panerai produced: 400. I remember we discussed that many times in the past, you and me.

 
 By: amanico : December 17th, 2020-21:18
I know that you had first class connections with Panerai. And I remember my questions about how we can read here and there that there were 5 to 8 times more vintage Panerai on the market... Un miracolo alla italiana? Add Stallone to the rarity of these Pr... 

15-20 years ago was the beginning of some damages, but the rise is still strong!

 
 By: PoyFR : December 17th, 2020-23:29
First if you recall Panerai was producing somewhere around 25-30,000 watches, keeping it sort of rare. However, the damage started to show signs when it became evident that the new Panerai watches were the re-production of the re-production of the product... 

All true. I make a clear distinction between the current production from one side, and on the other side, Vintage and Pre Vendome watches, which become to a bygone era.

 
 By: amanico : December 17th, 2020-23:38
For me, clearly, the vintage will keep their status, as well as the Pre Vendome. The first for their History, the second for the concept and the man behind, il Signore Bettarini. Not sure the moderns can reach this status, for the reasons you mentioned. B... 

Who are we to know ;-) maybe they will lin towards red watches and gain more interests ;-)...

 
 By: PoyFR : December 17th, 2020-23:55
In the last 2 decades there are some interesting models, but the future will be greater because of their in-house movements. In my opinion if he Panerai does not tire in re-production, if he keeps their identity and if he innovates in keeping the simple v... 

I really like that Roland Iten belt buckle :)

 
 By: jleno : December 17th, 2020-17:53
Also....let's not forget Stallone's RM watch ...  

He’s one of the rare American actors who doesn’t take himself too seriously.

 
 By: U3O8 : December 17th, 2020-18:24
His self deprecating humor makes him almost British. He’s not the tallest of action heroes. But has insanely large feet. I have seen his last at GJ Cleverley’s. Nice guy. Nice watches. Nice shoes.

I like Stallone...

 
 By: Kurt Behm : December 17th, 2020-19:00
but I wouldn't pay a dollar more than his watches are worth. KPB

Agreed. Everything pre-owned I've ever bought has come from someone I know...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 19th, 2020-11:32
All my pre-loved watches and even my pre-owned cars have come from former Purists. First, other PuristS are discerning, they're careful owners; secondly, they're trustworthy, they're not going to sell you something with a known problem; and third, it's gr... 

Agreed!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 20th, 2020-10:37
And you know it's in good hands too!

Very interesting to read this

 
 By: Pelle_thorstenson : December 17th, 2020-23:32
I would not pay anything extra to buy a watch or clothing worn by a movie star. However it would add an extra dimension for me to write with a pen that has been used by an author I like, for example Hemingway. I am the lucky owner of a couple of guitars t... 

Great response!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 19th, 2020-11:27
I agree... I had a similar experience. I was offered an original manuscript, first edition, and fountain pen all from the same author. Despite being a fan of fountain pens (I collect them and I have dozens), at the time I only paid attention to the manusc... 

Celebrity versus achivement

 
 By: Uncle Chico : December 18th, 2020-01:14
It would be interesting to compare how the market values watches connected with a celebrity versus a watch connected with an achievement. A watch owned by Lady Di or Jackie Onassis versus a watch that accompanied its wearer to the moon or the top of Mount... 

Focusing on Panerai, the answer is: celebrity...

 
 By: PoyFR : December 18th, 2020-02:19
There are 2 PAM 00021, platinum Radiomir with Rolex movement, to me and I am sure to many, the grail of all post Vendome era. There are still for sale for much less value than Mr. Stalonne 5218-201A The Luminor "Logo"

Another good point!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 19th, 2020-11:25
Hence, someone mentioned earlier, an Omega moon watch that has actually been to outerspace and back to Earth would be quite special. I don't know anyone in the space industry who can bring a watch to and from space. And I'm told they weigh everything down... 

It's all about connections - do I wish to be connected to a famous person via their (expendable) watch / jewelry? Probably not for me, but I have no qalms with anyone who does.

 
 By: nomadgiles : December 18th, 2020-04:49
Far more interesting personally is a connection to family or a certain historical event. One timepiece I still need to find (lurking in my parents cellar / loft somewhere) is one of these: That was used by my father flying this in the early 50's: Now that...  

Agreed! Very cool piece!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 18th, 2020-13:26

Oh! You win! That's the one...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 19th, 2020-11:22
I enjoy history and stories about great contrasts. I'm not an amateur historian, but the time around the French Revolution particularly interests me. And this piece is also such an amazing piece. You win. Technically, Marie Antoinette never really used th... 

Yes! A very special admirer!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 20th, 2020-10:54

Indeed!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 20th, 2020-17:06

Hehehehe...

 
 By: amanico : December 20th, 2020-23:39

To be entirely accurate about the box...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 20th, 2020-10:56
Breguet made a recreation of the Marie Antoinette piece. And for that recreation, they made a special wood presentation box. The wood in the box came from a tree that was on the ground of Versaille near Le Petit Trianon, the more casual personal palace aw... 

Here are some photos. Courtesy of ablogtowatch and Forbes.

 
 By: hmd4m : December 19th, 2020-15:48
Couldn’t find a pic of the box. ...  

Try googling "Breguet Marie Antoinette box" and you'll see it...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 20th, 2020-10:58
www.breguet.com Value might be a petty subject at this time, but this is probably the most valuable watch in the world. Should be worth more than the Graves, should be worth more than any Paul Newman Daytona. But value aside, this would be an amaz...