PoyFR
2842
Focusing on Panerai, the answer is: celebrity...
There are 2 PAM 00021, platinum Radiomir with Rolex movement, to me and I am sure to many, the grail of all post Vendome era.
There are still for sale for much less value than Mr. Stalonne 5218-201A The Luminor "Logo"
Sylvester "Sly" Stallone - A True Watch Collector and The Importance of Provenance
Moderator Patrick_y explores how the importance of Provenance affects values in the watch market in one example; the case of famous actors. Disgraced financier Bernie Madoff's collection of 40+ watches were auctioned off quickly, quietly, and some pieces ...
Neil Armstrong's Speedmaster would be a nice one
Or the Dalai Lama's complicated Patek
Excellent choices! I agree, an Omega that's actually been to outerspace would be REALLY COOL.
Those are good ones! The Dalai Lama's Patek Philippe... That's quite a watch with quite a story! Definitely a very special piece. And that'd be incredible provenance! Remember Gandhi's Zenith watch?
Yup! That's the one!
www.hautetime.com Vijay Mallya, the Indian Billionaire who is now living in the UK and being prosecuted in India bought it in a lot that contained Gandhi's glasses and sandals.
Interesting topic, very well presented
I don‘t mean to spoil the party here and I appreciate Sly Stallone both as an actor and as a person. But the value I put on a watch that once belonged to him over the same watch from Mr. Smith is precisely zero. Same for a watch from Angelina Jolie, Donal...
Agreed. I totally understand how the stories and provenance connected to a watch can be appealing to collectors but it's not really something that resonates with me. Love the movies though :)
The exception would be in the negative - if the watch was worn by Hitler, the Zodiac killer, Trump, that kind of history I would want to know so definitely DO NOT buy it. Superstitious and silly perhaps but hey, there's plenty of watches out there, no rea...
I agree! But I can also see someone beaming in pride saying, "this is the same Panerai Stallone wore in a movie."
Some people would find that a nice statement to make!
Historical awareness
Mentioning Adolf Hitler and Donald Trump in a sentence the way you did, shows a tremendous lack if historical awareness and belittles and trivialises what Hitler and Nazi Germany did to world.
Dear George, just to take some heat out of this discussion
I don‘t think Fastwong meant to compare Trump and Hitler in any way. He merely mentioned two people he wouldn’t want to have watches from. Me grouping Mrs. Jolie, Mr. Trump and the Pope together also makes a pretty heterogeneous group. Naturally I am with...
Certainly a very fair thing!
I agree, I'm not big on the celebrity endorsement thing neither. But I'm sure there are some people whom are and find that a piece once owned by a famous person is even more valuable than a non-famous person. That's why I keep on asking myself... Who's wa...
I actually recall something now...
I actually had the opportunity to buy the original manuscript for a book, a first-edition of that same book, and a pen belonging to a specific author whom I liked a long time ago. Back in the day, despite being a collector of fountain pens, I assigned no ...
SUPER GOOD ONE! I very vaguely remember that Seinfeld episode. Gotta watch all the Seinfelds again.
When I first watched Seinfeld I didn't find it as funny as I do today!
The result of the recently auctioned Sly's Pam is extremely low, compared to the any basic PN
What does it mean? Is it the brand, is is the Star behind the watch, is the value of the asset? Those icons have no appeal to me. I couldn't care less (and I don't actually) about the first watch on the moon, the Pope, the US president or any other famous...
Agreed, it does seem a tad bit low. But it is high for a Panerai!
I can't comment about the price ten years ago though.
That's actually a great common deominator!
You're right! If it was a movie star who owned a cool watch, but who wasn't passionate about watches, it wouldn't be as important... Stallone is definitely into mechanical things in general, especially mechanical watches.
Authenticity, uniqueness, history and more
Of course for most here we probably do not attach much attention on how famous was the previous owner of a timepiece, though… The value of such pieces are in many cases much less than the value of other valuables, for examples : letters 6 or 7 millions, p...
By the way B. Madoff should have known that even the Egyptians do not allow to climb or sit at the top of the pyramids ;-)
And yet theirs are rock solids ;-)
I totally get your way of thinking. One thing I like to read is your estimation of vintage Panerai produced: 400. I remember we discussed that many times in the past, you and me.
I know that you had first class connections with Panerai. And I remember my questions about how we can read here and there that there were 5 to 8 times more vintage Panerai on the market... Un miracolo alla italiana? Add Stallone to the rarity of these Pr...
15-20 years ago was the beginning of some damages, but the rise is still strong!
First if you recall Panerai was producing somewhere around 25-30,000 watches, keeping it sort of rare. However, the damage started to show signs when it became evident that the new Panerai watches were the re-production of the re-production of the product...
All true. I make a clear distinction between the current production from one side, and on the other side, Vintage and Pre Vendome watches, which become to a bygone era.
For me, clearly, the vintage will keep their status, as well as the Pre Vendome. The first for their History, the second for the concept and the man behind, il Signore Bettarini. Not sure the moderns can reach this status, for the reasons you mentioned. B...
Who are we to know ;-) maybe they will lin towards red watches and gain more interests ;-)...
In the last 2 decades there are some interesting models, but the future will be greater because of their in-house movements. In my opinion if he Panerai does not tire in re-production, if he keeps their identity and if he innovates in keeping the simple v...
I really like that Roland Iten belt buckle :)
Also....let's not forget Stallone's RM watch ...
He’s one of the rare American actors who doesn’t take himself too seriously.
His self deprecating humor makes him almost British. He’s not the tallest of action heroes. But has insanely large feet. I have seen his last at GJ Cleverley’s. Nice guy. Nice watches. Nice shoes.
Agreed. Everything pre-owned I've ever bought has come from someone I know...
All my pre-loved watches and even my pre-owned cars have come from former Purists. First, other PuristS are discerning, they're careful owners; secondly, they're trustworthy, they're not going to sell you something with a known problem; and third, it's gr...
Very interesting to read this
I would not pay anything extra to buy a watch or clothing worn by a movie star. However it would add an extra dimension for me to write with a pen that has been used by an author I like, for example Hemingway. I am the lucky owner of a couple of guitars t...
Great response!
I agree... I had a similar experience. I was offered an original manuscript, first edition, and fountain pen all from the same author. Despite being a fan of fountain pens (I collect them and I have dozens), at the time I only paid attention to the manusc...
Celebrity versus achivement
It would be interesting to compare how the market values watches connected with a celebrity versus a watch connected with an achievement. A watch owned by Lady Di or Jackie Onassis versus a watch that accompanied its wearer to the moon or the top of Mount...
Focusing on Panerai, the answer is: celebrity...
There are 2 PAM 00021, platinum Radiomir with Rolex movement, to me and I am sure to many, the grail of all post Vendome era. There are still for sale for much less value than Mr. Stalonne 5218-201A The Luminor "Logo"
Another good point!
Hence, someone mentioned earlier, an Omega moon watch that has actually been to outerspace and back to Earth would be quite special. I don't know anyone in the space industry who can bring a watch to and from space. And I'm told they weigh everything down...
It's all about connections - do I wish to be connected to a famous person via their (expendable) watch / jewelry? Probably not for me, but I have no qalms with anyone who does.
Far more interesting personally is a connection to family or a certain historical event. One timepiece I still need to find (lurking in my parents cellar / loft somewhere) is one of these: That was used by my father flying this in the early 50's: Now that...
Oh! You win! That's the one...
I enjoy history and stories about great contrasts. I'm not an amateur historian, but the time around the French Revolution particularly interests me. And this piece is also such an amazing piece. You win. Technically, Marie Antoinette never really used th...
To be entirely accurate about the box...
Breguet made a recreation of the Marie Antoinette piece. And for that recreation, they made a special wood presentation box. The wood in the box came from a tree that was on the ground of Versaille near Le Petit Trianon, the more casual personal palace aw...
Here are some photos. Courtesy of ablogtowatch and Forbes.
Couldn’t find a pic of the box. ...
Try googling "Breguet Marie Antoinette box" and you'll see it...
www.breguet.com Value might be a petty subject at this time, but this is probably the most valuable watch in the world. Should be worth more than the Graves, should be worth more than any Paul Newman Daytona. But value aside, this would be an amaz...