ThomasM
[PuristS]
14331
so we think we know all there is to know about escapements, rate stability, and that
tourbillons are completely useless in a wristwatch, because "it was designed for use in pocketwatches that stayed in one vertical position?"
So riddle me this - why does a wristwatch that keeps perfect time (+ - seconds a week) end up minutes off on a winder over the same period?
Even on a winder that
a. can be set and runs bi-directionally?
b. can be set and runs randomly ?
c. can be set and runs in set rotations in each direction?
(comments are not meant to "prove" that tourbillons are helpful or not helpful with timekeeping, just that the so called "even an idiot can understand that" reasons why a tourbillon is NOT helpful in a wristwatch are...well, not so simple and easy to conclude. The main point is, of course, that the so called "science" of horology is probably more of a hard science than psychology or economics, but probably not so "hard" as Newtonian mechanics or mathematics.
)
Am I serious?!?
Depends on how, if at all, this thread develops...
TM
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so we think we know all there is to know about escapements, rate stability, and that
tourbillons are completely useless in a wristwatch, because "it was designed for use in pocketwatches that stayed in one vertical position?" So riddle me this - why does a wristwatch that keeps perfect time (+ - seconds a week) end up minutes off on a win...
amplitude
Could that be that on the watch winder the main spring is constantly (almost) fully wound, therefore it has more power and the balance runs at full amplitude, i.e. the period is longer and the watch runs slower? It depends how the watch was regulated, if ...
Those are some good points, some parts of an overall
fairly complex calculus. Hi, dknespl, Isochronism specifically addresses the issue you are raising, and theoretically, the cycle frequency is supposed to be independent of amplitude. But of course, in the real world... State of wind of the mainspring is o...
manual watch on winder
Another experiment could be to put a manual-wound watch on a watch winder. I should try it at home
Excellent idea.
I like that idea, dknespl. Also with you on the state of mainspring wind on a winder affecting the rate. What about the adjustments being performed at defined positions for a defined period. So, when on a winder, these positions and periods will not be 10...
interesting idea, would love to see your results.
which, by the way, would be eye opening but not conclusive - like my example of a watch that keeps great time on the wrist but horrible time on winder (random, bi directional, unidirectional) which should not be universally extrapolated for any global con...
Up Down
I know the history of up/down indicators...And I'd happily make that statement about a non-vintage watch. Especially when there's some nice script on the dial telling you so...Reserve de Marche...ick. Better to have "Levery-thingy-from-the-Mainspring...
Why not just call it a fuel gauge?
Hi, BDLJ, With your knowledge and experience, you can reasonably conclude anything you want. ;-) "Why would anyone need a RDM indicator on an automatic watch?" I cringe when I read such statements, which also indicates a lack of knowledge of the history o...
Me too !!
Where have you been all of my life, TM? J Whenever this issue of RdM indicators on automatic versus manual wind watches comes up in discussion I feel on the outer because the consensus seems to be that they are more useful on manual than automatic watches...
I am surprised..
...at your experience of automatics. (And I'm not trying to be facetious). I would have thought that as long as one is walking about, even around the office (and I do work in an office so am sedentary for hours at a time, sadly) the automatic winding woul...
A potential lifesaver ...
I knew I had seen an advert that followed the sentiments in your post, but it took me a few days to remember where ......
External influences
I think it's partly down to the magnitude of the influence of external forces on the system. Compare the watch in question with an uber-precision clock in a clock vault: The clock is designed to run in an environment where as many external influences as p...
Thank you, yes, I agree.
Any time or interest to try to articulate at least some of those internal and external "influences?"
Well put, Nick
This: "So, the watch that's running +/-0s/d on the wrist has found an equilibrium where the adjustments/regulation balance out the average of the external influences. On the winder, these factors aren't present, so it goes to hell in a bucket (or vice ver...
I would like to thank everyone for contributing...
to this thread, I am fascinated by the discussion so far! Escapements are my favorite topic! Brandon
thank you for your post. There is much enlightening feedback in this thread
and certainly food for thought to get closer to understanding what is, actually, a fairly complex "environment" masquerading as simple physics. (complex in terms of variables, not conceptually) tribology (study of friction and lubrication) micro-mechanics...
Among other reasons, I think single-plane winders are hard on lubrication.
Somewhat overlapping with some other comments: 1. The watch's state of wind is different on the winder than on the wrist. Wrist movements normally are vigorous enough to keep the watch fully wound, while some winders seem to keep the watch only partially ...
I tend to think positional variation
is the most likely culprit. A single plane winder is usually keeping the watch in a vertical or semi-vertical position. A proper test winder (a.k.a. windmill style) does eliminate this to a degree. If the delta (difference in rate across positions) is low...
Over winding leading to overbanking
Thomas this can happen in the following way. Generally when you wear a watch in civilian life, an automatic watch will not achieve completely full wind. However, a watch winder can easily take a watch to full wind. And sometimes just that extra bit of pow...
Lubrication fault
Knocking is tytpically due to too much braking grease in the barrel, so the mainspring does not slip at the correct level of power. Of course there are other contributing factors, but this would be the most common reason. Another can simply be the wrong m...
Too strong a spring
In the example I know best, my own watch, it was that the strength of the spring when fully wound was too great. That's why rate was great under all conditions, except fully wound. Of course since daily wear did not fully wind the spring, but the winder d...
user error?
Of course I'm joking, but as someone who deals with a large number of difficult to understand, substantiate or certainly confirm client conplaints every other day or two, the thought does cross my mind. I agree with the honorables Mr.s Kingston and 1440 t...
You know, I think you may be right.
I think I might have been confusing my Geneva set clock with the watch on my wrist when I was keeping track of the timekeeping marks. Afterall, they're about the same size and with middle age presbyopia, my eyes can't tell the difference anymore anyway. ;...