SIHH 2017: Parmigiani Fleurier’s Value Proposition a Tonda 1950 Steel Review

Jun 02, 2017,01:20 AM
 

PuristSPro reviews the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 Steel.  With a highly decorated movement, automatic with micro-rotor, a thoughtful adjustable deployant clasp, and a suggested price of lower than 10,000CHF, could this be the best value on the market yet?  PuristSPro moderator Patrick_y gives you his insight in one of his favorites at this year's SIHH 2017. 

THE SETTING

Over the past several years the prices of Swiss made Haute Horlogerie timepieces have increased a tremendous percentage.  Anyone who’s monitored the price of a simple Patek Philippe Calatrava over the past ten years will notice it nearly doubled at one point in some markets.  Some of that increase was attributed to the cost of gold, the increased cost of labor, real estate, and other inputs.  But most of it can be attributed to an economic model called supply and demand; due to the rise of Chinese consumerism in haute horlogerie there was a shortage of high quality timepieces and thus watch company executives took advantage of their favorable fiduciary advantage by increasing prices, revenues, and ultimately profits.  That model worked for a few years until the Chinese market slowed due to two reasons; first, saturation of the market; and second, the new anti-corruption laws that promised harsh sentences to government officials receiving influential gifts.  Over the past couple years, the Swiss watch industry has been in the doldrums; Swiss watch exports have fallen tremendous double digit percentages, and vendors have been forced to buy back inventory from struggling retailers.  In the meanwhile, attrition continues on another front; Apple has taken a huge percentage of marketshare and is supposedly now one of the largest watch brands in the world (Apple claims to be among the top two in revenue).  At the same time, Swiss watches were becoming less relevant and obsolete as Millennials often don't even wear a watch. 


 

A watch is the entreé of every man's accessories wardrobe. 

 

WHAT CONSUMERS WANT

As a follower of the watch industry, I've advised many companies to adapt to the industry and leverage their existing brand equity to create a value-oriented timepiece.  However the industry never listens, here’s a black/white case: despite the fact a large percentage of customers tell the brands that we generally prefer deployant buckles on our watches, the brands remain in stubborn refusal to listen to this empirical market research. 

          Market research studies showed consumers wanted: watches in steel or other non-precious metal, with high quality movements that showed savoir faire and a high level of finishing throughout, models that were modern in size and “clean and crisp” designs, and all from a highly-regarded brand that had a reputation for making top quality watches but at a more accessible price. 

          Unfortunately, consumer demands fell mostly upon deaf ears.  Watch brands, like dinosaurs, continue the antiquated thought process of retaining their exclusivity to the point of extinction by creating watches that fit a picture-perfect marketable image that simply doesn’t fit in the typical consumer’s reality nor lifestyle. 

 

ENTER PROTAGONIST

Parmigiani Fleurier, an independent and privately held watch manufacturer, enjoys having just a very few clients and welcoming even fewer new clients into its exclusive family every year.  The Sandoz Family Foundation, which owns and operates Parmigiani Fleurier, is more concerned about preserving the art form of Haute Horlogerie than anything else and is appropriately charged with maintaining many of the vintage watches, clocks, and automatons in the Patek Philippe museum, it’s largest single client. 

Bugatti Automobiles makes some of the world’s most technological and advanced vehicles the world has ever seen.  As a creator of automobile art, when Bugatti decided to choose its own accessories partner they chose to contact Michel Parmigiani and Roland Iten; two tip-of-the-tongue names familiar among the billionaire jet-set. 

But Parmigiani Fleurier knew this reality was a rarified one, and even Bugatti-driving billionaires donning Roland Iten belt buckles usually had a day job and a need for a normal watch and there's another segment of the population that aren't Bugatti drivers too.  Somehow, someone in this privately held independent watch company somehow decided to actually make a practical watch for the normal person.  They looked back at empirical market research, found out what people wanted, and created a watch with a passionate vision that didn't overlook practicality.  Enter our protagonist, the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 in steel! 

 

THE WATCH

The press are a fickle bunch, during SIHH we are bombarded with technical data by watch-manufacture spokespeople with heavy accents as they quickly move from one model to the next in quick presentations.  Most press writers themselves also find these objects to be incredibly expensive and unaffordable (the press generally can't afford the luxury watches they're writing about), so no press attendee looks at a $1 million US Dollar Greubel Forsey with a personal interest nor perspective. 


It’s no longer looking, it’s gawking. 

 

When I first saw the Tonda 1950 in steel I was impressed; great appearance, generous diameter with a proportionate movement, well finished micro-rotor automatic movement, deployant buckle with on-the-fly micro adjustment, and more, it was clear that someone had listened to the consumer focus group studies. 



The deployant was simple but well made.  With two buttons used to activate the release mechanism. 
 
The buckle also had a precision adjustment system that could lengthen the strap in about 1.3MM increments in a few positions!  Here it is, fully extended...

 
...And here it is fully closed. 


The locking mechanism of the micro adjustment system; green means it's open and adjustable. 

 
And red indicates the position is locked and not adjustable. 

The movement is virtually identical as the one used in the solid gold Tonda models.  The gold models enjoy a platinum rotor while the steel model gets a tungsten rotor.  The Tonda offers high movement finishing equivalent to a Calatrava or Patrimony model.  Moreover, the movement seems less generic and more specific since it fully fills the case, unlike some competitor models that exhibit Tyrannosaurus Rex syndrome (big body but short arms) by having giant cases and tiny movements. 

          Over the course of a week, I had no issues with the power reserve, as it seemed to be realizing it’s full potential and winding fairly efficiently.  The efficient winding isn’t always perfect among micro-rotored movements, anyone with a Patek Philippe 240 caliber will notice that sometimes the watch doesn’t always build up its power reserve fully even after a full day of being on your feet. 

          No fault can be found with the accuracy, as the watch seemed to have no major accuracy deviations.  I averaged less than two seconds fast a day in accuracy deviations. 

          The most important thing is that this watch is an automatic and has a fairly sized crown.  Unlike the 215-PS movement from Patek Philippe's 5196 and 5119 models, you don't get distressed finger tips from winding those usually tiny crowns. 


Internal Designation: Movement PF-702
Well finished, and a big movement encompassing 13.25 lines (diameter of 30MM) fills up this case of 40MM. 
The movement is only 2.6MM high, similar to the Piaget and Patek Philippe micro-rotored movements. 
It boasts a powerful mainspring that stores 48 hours, a total of 160 individual components, and 29 jewels. 
Frequency of 3Hz, 21,600 A/h. 
Over the course of a week, the Tonda 1950 was very accurate, gaining on average less than 2 seconds a day! 


 
The strap is machine stitched and solidly made of a nice black matte alligator leather with large rectangular scales.  It's not as supple as typical Parmigiani timepieces with the beautifully hand stitched Hermes leather straps.  However, it's a strap that is practical, in character, and should last a long time.  Do note, the strap is a little long and wide for such a watch.  The width helps spread the weight more evenly.  But the standard length strap is so long that those with small wrists will find that they’re using first hole.  If you have a wrist smaller than 7 inches in circumference, definitely opt for the short strap.  Schwarzenegger-type wrists can stick with the standard one and be fine.  


The 40mm steel case has a thickness of just 8.2mm, a thin profile, enabling the watch to fit under tailored French cuff shirts.  The sapphire glass is anti-reflective.  The lugs protrude outwards less than average, making the watch wear a little smaller than a typical 40mm case.  It only serves up 30M water resistance, meaning that you can wash your hands and walk out in the rain, but don't shower nor swim with the watch.  You've got a leather strap anyways, so I don't think you'll plan on getting it wet anyways. 



The dial is also silver colored with an opaline texture.  It boasts a symmetrical standard design that has a very classic feel, yet the 40mm size makes the watch appear modern and current.  Parmigiani's razor sharp Delta hands are filled with luminous material, so you can tell the time in low light.  There's also a black face version that I find striking and definitive!  The black dial also has a modern sporty elegance to it.  Definitely, both pieces are worth considering.  I hope that Parmigiani will find a shade of grey to work out as a potential third dial option, maybe a grey sunburst dial? 

Perhaps the part that surprised me most was that the watch was recognized.  While enjoying a luncheon and wine tasting at an expensive vineyard in Sonoma, a gentleman asked to see my watch and asked if it was a "Parmigiani."  Delighted and surprised, I explained it was the latest steel Parmigiani from the 2017 SIHH show.  The watch aficionado revealed he owned many timepieces, among them two Parmigiani timepieces whom he considered among the best in his collection.  He resolved to wear one of them to the next vineyard tasting and luncheon. 

 

Final Thoughts

It’s rare to see a watch company that actually listened to consumer wants and needs.  Even some of the oldest and most highly regarded brands screw up one of these key areas; the clasp, the crown (tiny crowns plus manual wind equals cruelty to fingertips), or poor finishing that’s just not befitting of watches of a high caliber (no pun intended).  It’s strange that manufactures seem to design things that are purely for form and aesthetics without any care to the actual functionality - I won't wear a watch I can't wind and I won't have a great ownership experience if I don't wear that watch. 


A quick comparison of the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 Steel timepiece to other typical three-hand timepieces in some key problematic areas shows some interesting facts...

 

Some typical three hand watches of this caliber are the:

A.    A. Lange & Sohne 1815 model (233 model or 235 model)

B.     Patek Philippe 5196 and 5119 models

C.    Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Traditionelle model. 

 

Here’s a report card with A-excellent, B-above average, C-average, D-below average grades for all of these watches in some key problem areas. 

 

Category

A. Lange & Sohne 1815 Model (233 or 235)

Patek Philippe 5119 or 5196

Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Traditionelle 82172

Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 Steel

1.  Clasp. 


Among pin buckles, Lange sets the standard.  Among deployants, lever locking systems (a la Rolex) are superior to friction systems which can wear over time. 

Lange offers a great pin clasp made of solid pieces.  Careful attention was also paid to the solid tongue, which is perfectly compatible to the thickness of the leather strap.  Grade: A, 4.0 GPA. 

Patek Philippe 5119 and 5196 offer an Henri-Stern era designed flimsy stamped ardillon buckle.  The tongue is folded metal and not even fused at the joined end allowing the buckle to have a tremendous amount of lateral side play.  Grade: D, 1.0 GPA. 

 

Vacheron Constantin’s Patrimony Traditionelle has a nice distinctive ardillon clasp that is good and above average.  Grade: B, 3.0 GPA.

If Parmigiani Fleurier just made a great pin clasp that would’ve been good, but then they went deployant, and they didn’t stop there – they even included a micro adjustment.  Grade: A+ Honors GPA 5.3! 

2.  Tiny crown and manual wind. 

 

 

Lange 1815 233 or 235 models have big crowns that are comfortable for manual wind.  Grade: A 4.0 GPA.

Patek Philippe 5119 and 5196 models hold tradition, having fairly small crowns that are difficult to wind, especially towards the end when the mainspring gets tight.  Grade: C, 2.0 GPA.    

Vacheron’s Patrimony Traditionelle has a reasonable size crown and isn’t difficult to wind and still looks great.  Grade: B, 3.0 GPA.

Good size crown was all that was required, but PF made the watch automatic!  No problem here!  Grade: A+ 4.3 GPA.

3.  Movement Finishing. 

 

Voutilainen and Dufour receive top marks. 

Lange 1815 modelss made several years ago used to have cost-cutting one-sided finishing, but the current 233 and 235 models are finished both sides and to a very high standard.  Grade: B+, 3.3 GPA and Best Improvement Award. 

Faultless traditional finishing, typical of Patek Philippe.  Formerly Geneva-sealed, but now self-sealed with the Patek-Philippe-Seal.  Grade: B, 3.0 GPA. 

Geneva-sealed finishing.  Classic, and good movement overall with nice finishing touches.  Grade: B, 3.0 GPA.

Has some nice touches, especially the three convex semi-circular plate and overall good finishing.  But for aesthetics, the anglage could be more pronounced and heavily polished. 

Grade: B, 3.0 GPA. 

4.  Price, value, and case material. 

A: Get a lot more than what you pay for (very rare).

B: Get more than what you pay for (rare).

C: Typical pricing, you get what you pay for (common).

All in gold or platinum accompanied by very high prices.  Case is among the thickest here, true to its German roots, making a fitted French-shirt cuff feel a little tight.  Grade: C, 2.0 GPA. 

All models in gold and 5196P in platinum with special historical dial.  Very high prices.  5116 model with special enamel dial is a great piece too.  Grade: C, 2.0 GPA.  Suggestion: Include the deployant buckle and it'll be a good deal.  

All models are offered in gold or platinum.  Very high prices.  Grade: C, 2.0 GPA. 

Steel or gold available.  Steel comes with standard leather strap and deployant buckle.  Gold models come with Hermes leather strap with ardillon buckle and different dial options.  Much more accessible price point in steel.  At under 10,000 USD in steel, this is an excellent value for this quality. 

Grade: B, 3.0 GPA.

Overall Grade and GPA

Grade: B+, 3.3 GPA – Solidly good performer, but thickness, brand ambiguity, and the cut-off “6” on the dial may be a deal-breaker for some.  Objectively, a very good watch.  

Grade: C, 2.0 GPA – An average score that can be improved by paying more to get a deployant clasp.  It’s a handsome watch that puts aesthetics and traditions over practicalities.  Many chasing this brand will have to overlook the clasp and the difficult to wind crown. 

Grade: B-, 2.7 GPA – Better than average, a handsome case and dial combination, and no major drawbacks.  Those afflicted with Tetraphobia won’t like the “4400” caliber designation.  A great choice, from a very famous and storied brand.

Grade: A, 3.9 GPA – Excellent, really listened to what the modern customer wants.  Offered in steel, and at a reasonable price point.  Handsome large 40mm design may be big for some wrists and the brand is so exclusive that not everyone has heard of it.  Definitely a watch worth your consideration. 

 

 

The Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 in steel, really has it where it counts and when looked upon objectively is a delight in multiple departments.  Its majestic 40mm size gives it strength and modern appeal, it’s practical, and it's reasonably priced.  Despite the fact the brand name doesn’t sound as familiar as Patek Philippe or Vacheron Constantin, Parmigiani Fleurier is akin to Roland Iten, one of those uber-exclusive brands among those who are in the know. 


As the curtain closes on this review, I highly advise any individual who considers him or herself a watch savant who’s considering a three-hand dress watch really ought to consider a watch like the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 in steel for its exceptional value, thoughtful ergonomic touches, and its compelling design. 


The kingdom (your wrist, our stage) has to build a 3-hand clock tower; the King (you) promises the Princess (your money) to anyone who erects the best clock tower.   Then four knights from Patekovia, Vacheron-Upon-Geneva, Lange-Ore-Mountain, and Parmigiani-Fleurier each come up with a proposal.  Who would you promise your Princess to?  Let us know below!  Thank you for reading! 


Disclaimers and Notes:  I was so fond of this watch at SIHH 2017 that I requested this watch on loan from Parmigiani Fleurier.  I received no special benefits from Parmigiani Fleurier for writing this review.  Many thanks to Parmigiani Fleurier for handling the logistics! 




More posts: BugatticalatravaDufourGreubel ForseyVoutilainen

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Comments: view entire thread

 

Wonderful report on a very appealing watch, Patrick!

 
 By: KMII : June 2nd, 2017-01:32
I have to say I have been a big admirer of the Tonda watches, both steel and the earlier WG variations. The movement, the proportions and the minimalist case and dial design all spoke to me. There is only one competitor you forgot to mention, namely Chopa... 

I thought I read something of the kind

 
 By: KMII : June 2nd, 2017-02:52
Thanks for confirming!

Excellent Patrick. Very well done, but only one criticism….

 
 By: anonymous09 : June 2nd, 2017-04:42
The three other watches are all at a disadvantage compared to the Tonda, since they are manual wind only – your score for the PF-702 is heavily biased (imo) and devoid of any reference to how it feels when manually winding it. That would’ve been a fair an... 

I actually edited the winding feel out...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-01:50
We have actually parallel thoughts but in reverse thought patterns. I thought that I'd be showing my bias if I described the winding... I could invite criticism like "Patrick inherently likes automatics more than manuals." I was also trying to be very obj... 

What a wondeful and acurate report

 
 By: Ron_W : June 2nd, 2017-07:33
Thanks i enjoyed reading it very much. Very thorough. I would choose the Tonda out of the 4 above, but the Chopard LUC 1860 is missing from the equasion i think. I tried on the Tonda 1950 in pink gold several years ago and as much as i was taken by the mo... 

Excellent point...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-02:01
I never had a Chopard L.U.C 1860 on my wrist for more than two minutes. I tried one on in Shanghai back in February this year. So I couldn't get an accurate sense of the watch. But I agree, it's a beautiful watch in the three-hand category with a nice mov... 

I do like the Lange...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-17:25
I'm very fond of the Lange. And our PuristSPro member "Jocke" takes wonderful photos of it too!

Excellent review, this watch is definitely of the highest value.

 
 By: watchestolove : June 2nd, 2017-11:48
I've seen the movement in the gold variants, and the aesthetics/finishing is just gorgeous. If they come out with a more interesting dial color on steel (like you said gray or even blue) then this watch would be irresistable!

I hope they read your advice!

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-02:03
I think Parmigiani really listens to customer feedback. You may have just influenced their product line! Time will tell! Thanks for reading and commenting! I presume from your avatar that you're a PML fan, that's my favorite from G.O.; double swan neck an... 

I hope so! I'm pretty interested in getting a Tonda 1950 for my next piece

 
 By: watchestolove : June 4th, 2017-21:50
Hopefully we'll see some new interesting variants at the next Basel. I am a huge PML fan indeed (since I own one), that movement aesthetics is to die for! Glad you like it too!

A Tonda would be a good choice...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 4th, 2017-22:41
Something thin and elegant would be a great contrast to the PML. Definitely try a Tonda 1950 when you can. And don't forget to try a black-faced version.

Actually, after reading your post I took a trip to the AD over the weekend...

 
 By: watchestolove : June 6th, 2017-11:07
To my surprise they had all 3 of the new steel pieces. For me, the least interesting is the white (actually silver) one, feels kind of generic. The moonphase is quite beautiful, though I would've preferred if the date wheel was black also. My favorite is ...  

I agree, the simple black one is my favorite.

 
 By: patrick_y : June 6th, 2017-12:10
Wow, they got the moonphase already! That was just announced! The "Opaline Silver" does look less distinctive, but under-the-radar was likely the goal. Thanks for the photos! I like your taste!

Thank you, my friend! [nt]

 
 By: watchestolove : June 6th, 2017-13:33

Thanks for the in-depth review!

 
 By: HGL : June 2nd, 2017-15:21
Very nice piece indeed, all things considered! I would like to see it in real life very much! HAGWE! Best, HGL

They're coming to retailers now...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-02:04
You'll be able to see one shortly at your PF retailer. Hopefully there is one nearby. They're definitely cool timepieces. I really like the lugs.

The black looks cool...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-13:28
Thank you for the photos. Which one do you like more? I'm leaning towards black.

Nice work, Patrick!

 
 By: mkvc : June 3rd, 2017-09:14
In fairness to Lange, they made a microrotor-wound Langematik that might have provided a more direct comparison with the Parmigiani. However, I think they are now using their microrotor movement only to power complications. They still make a three-handed ... 

You are right my friend!

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-13:43
The Langematik was a nice watch indeed. You're right, they do make a Saxonia Automatic. The reason why the 1815 was chosen was because the 1815 has a lower starting price point than Saxonia automatic. So why not a manual Saxonia you ask? Well, I chose the... 

Thank you for reading! [nt]

 
 By: patrick_y : June 3rd, 2017-17:26
It seems that nice watches are no longer the rarity. But nice watches that are highly functional and that are for sale at a somewhat reasonable price are the rarity.

Yes I honestly agree,,,,,

 
 By: watercolors : June 4th, 2017-01:38
If the watch costs 10; 000 CHF you get what you pay for ! It is worth it's price for sure. Thank you my friend. Best Regards Edward

A nice and reasonable piece...

 
 By: foversta : June 4th, 2017-10:19
But I don't feel a lot of emotions. To be honest, when I look at the new Toric Chronometer, I don't think they play the same league. Obviously, the Topic is much more expensive but I find it so more excinting that I would prefer to save money and directly... 

It's going to affect people differently...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 4th, 2017-17:23
For someone getting into their first piece of haute horlogerie who pays less emphasis to case material and wants a three-hand dress watch with petite seconds. The Toric is definitely a complete package and a compelling value; gold case, date, large sweep ... 

Great comparative review, thanks

 
 By: FanFrancisco : June 5th, 2017-05:22
I have a Tonda with meteorite dial in polished titanium case. Dated back before deciding to go for it, I find it the case size and also lugs are not nice and odd, but after trying it, it is very comfortably seating on my wrist, very close to my wrist and ...  

That's cool...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 6th, 2017-01:08
Titanium case is cool. Meteorite dial is super cool. Thanks for sharing this Stefan!

Coming back to your piece...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 8th, 2017-13:48
I'm noticing the titanium is of the harder variety to be polished like that. So Grade 5 Titanium. Good looking piece. And I don't think I own a titanium watch. Ceramic, yes; titanium, no. Meteorite dial, neither. Does yours have the Hermes strap?

Just thank you

 
 By: Alex25 : June 9th, 2017-08:39
Great article. Wonderful attention to detail and subject awareness. The watch itself is superb especially if movement finishing is the similar to the previous metals' version. Unfortunately Tonda does not hold value well.

Thank you for the kind words...

 
 By: patrick_y : June 10th, 2017-01:53
Definitely a value play for those who want a well finished movement but don't require the status quo of having a gold watch. They don't hold their value well, but who knows, this one just doesn't have that much room to fall. It's definitely a sophisticate... 

A very, no, let me correct myself - extremely nice watch

 
 By: xyz123abc : February 19th, 2020-11:42
from a technical point of view, the only thing I do not understand is the very small balance wheel. For accuracy, the bigger the better. But by all means, is regulated well it really does not matter (just a grumpy old man’s view).

It's actually not that small, it just looks small...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 20th, 2020-09:40
The watch is 40mm in diameter. The movement is 30mm in diameter which is unusually wide for a movement and it fills up the case nicely with only 5mm of case material on all sides. Most watches with a 40mm diameter have a smaller than 30mm movement. The ba... 

I fully agree

 
 By: xyz123abc : February 20th, 2020-11:09
My point is that there is a ratio between mainspring diameter and the balance wheel for accuracy.

I see. I didn't know there's a relationship between mainspring diameter and balance wheel...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 20th, 2020-12:03
Are you specifically referring to the diameter of the balance wheel? I can see the mainspring is very big, appears to be a single barrel design too. You're not referring to the hair spring inside the balance wheel are you? I didn't know there's an accurac... 

The ideal formula is

 
 By: xyz123abc : February 20th, 2020-16:20
Movement diameter/2 should be the diameter of the mainspring barrel and the balance. The hairspring should be relevant to the balance wheel (as a logical consequence of the balance diameter).