ThomasM[PuristS]
14331
Mon plaisir, mon ami...
Dec 25, 2008,02:40 AM
and hopefully, we can realize that dream for both of us soon, hopefully accompanied by a nice Chablis or Quart de Charmes (well, maybe not, too sweet...okay, certain vintages only...) with a nice overflowing Plat du Roi of seafood...
;-)
I really miss these engaging discussions, but alas, I seem only up for it in medicine induced fever states these days...
:-(
Cheers,
TM
Comments:
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Cvstos and the idea of originality
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-01:45
Whatever the quality of Cvstos watches, the inescapable fact is the usually unfavourable comparison to Richard Mille. The similarity in design is obvious and perhaps blatant. The styling of Cvstos watches is controversial and the likeness is clear, but th...
Cvstos Yachting tourbillion
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-01:59
I like this one a lot. Yes the idea of a yachting limited edition reminds me of the Richard Mille Perini Navi but I like the execution of this Cvstos. The movement have wood inlaid into the baseplate, recalling the deck of a yacht. Although it is an odd c...
1, 2, 3????
By: aaronm : December 24th, 2008-08:16
How many different places is the word "tourbillon" written on that movement?? A
Cvstos Concept S Minute Repeater Tourbillon
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-02:03
The most notable by far is the Concept S minute repeater with tourbillion. Cvstos markets it as the world’s first water-resistant tourbillion, of up to 100 m no less. But that is as much a gimmick as a technical achievement. At first glance it is hard not...
Cvstos Concept S Flyback Chronograph and Automatic
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-02:09
The earlier Cvstos watches were not impressive, especially the entry level models. Not only were they aesthetically uninspiring, they were almost entirely based on various ETA calibres. The new Concept S watches are a big step up; all the watches depicted...
thank you , do you known who make new movement for CVSTOS?
By: LVT : December 24th, 2008-03:18
Except the originality of design , I always evaluate CVSTOS is good in ratio of price/ finishing . I am impress with new chronographe one , I would like to see it by my eye in next trip to Malaysia . Other concern is black coating of case , It would be pa...
Cvstos - way to go!
By: tony p : December 24th, 2008-05:29
A long way to go, that is. Jiaxian, thanks for this excellent and informative report. You make the valid point that watches such as the Ingenieur, the Nautilus and (more recently) the Big Bang all started life as "me-too" efforts, but gradually attained t...
Well the thing is...
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-06:12
The current products are good. From what I have seen, Cvstos doesn't need to improve its finishing or construction, rather it needs to maintain it. Of course it can be better, think Patek or Chopard LUC, but that is the nth degree of mass produced fine fi...
Cvstos doesn't need to improve its finishing or construction?
By: ling5hk : December 24th, 2008-16:56
Hi SJX, With all due respect, I can't agree with your above statement. Let's put aside the issue as to whether Cvstos is similar (some says copycat) to RM or otherwise. When I held Cvstov, it gave me hefty feel but certainly not refined finishing. It has ...
ThomasM and Ling, we are referring to different watches...
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-18:57
When I wrote about Cvstos not needing to improve its finishing, I was referring mainly to its Concept S watches, which I understand will become the flagship collection. I do agree the most common Cvstos watches, ETA-equipped and thoroughly uninspired, are...
That's some great...
By: DRMW : December 24th, 2008-19:23
Hello SJX, That's some great pics if you took them with only the restaurant lighting! Very impressive. You must be taking lessons from AnthonyT as he does some amazing photos with the worst possible lighting conditions! Thanks for the scoop on Cvstos! Hap...
Recently we have seen quite a few new
By: Geo : December 24th, 2008-06:44
watch companies that WERE able to start from scratch and develop a watch without other brands DNA. Urwerk, Vianney Halter, Hautelence, Greubel Forsey, Vianney Halter, Sarpaneva and Kari Voutilainen f.i.. Cystos had a shameless start and is not worth menti...
I'm intrigued by the level of disagreeableness, Geo . . .
By: Dr No : December 24th, 2008-11:21
. . . for even though it's certainly true that RM created perhaps the only truly original marque in recent memory, their level of originality in nominal aesthetic terms is not deeply profound - after all, there are scads of barrel-shaped designs littering...
Ironically, I'm again in the awkward position of ...
By: ThomasM : December 24th, 2008-11:36
"apologizing" (in the classic greek sense) for positions which may or may not coincide with how I personally feel... Hi, Geo, Art, Geo, interestingly, you mention Vianney Halter. I wonder in what aspect you include Vianney here? (I love Vianney's work, an...
;-) . . . well, I did cover myself with the qualifying 'perhaps' . . .
By: Dr No : December 24th, 2008-12:03
. . . that preceded my statement, but you're right, Thomas, in assuming that I'd neglected both Urwerk and G-F in my thoughts when I was composing my reply. Urwerk is certainly a highly original marque at the same level as RM in my humble opinion, and G-F...
curious, Art...
By: ThomasM : December 24th, 2008-12:18
can you be a little more specific about "genre?" With G-F, I'm pretty sure you mean "multi-axis tourbillon" (and if so, in fact, they are the first, even if not by brand; guess who was responsible for the original FM MAT?...) but I'm not sure what you mea...
Where Urwerk is concerned, Thomas, I would accord them the same . . .
By: Dr No : December 24th, 2008-13:08
. . . level of respect for originality as RM due to their uncanny parallels of fusing unique case designs and mechanical innovation to create entirely new genres; neither has a precedent when viewed in total, even though there are certainly critical aspec...
Thomas Prescher is a lone wolf and the public appearance of his pieces
By: ThomasM : December 24th, 2008-16:04
in the MAT genre is pretty much contemporaneous with the others; he was indeed a pioneer in this field (which latterly included the beautiful gyrotourbillon, an Eric Coudrey conception and execution, if I'm not mistaken) Whether someone ORIGINALLY was the...
At least one progenitor!
By: Gary G : December 25th, 2008-20:36
I for one, still find it cool that after 500 years of watches, KV was the first one to come up with the idea of a decimal repeater -- would love to know of an earlier example, but I'm not aware of one. Then there's Volker and the hard linkage of seconds h...
Thanks, Thomas
By: Gary G : December 25th, 2008-21:42
It's one of those elegant ideas that in retrospect seems so obvious that I'd be interested in learning more if future events permit. In the meanitme, all the best wishes for your health and happiness -- I'm sure that you know that many people, myself incl...
Regarding Kari's inspiration for the decimal repeater,
By: tony p : December 26th, 2008-20:20
I actually asked him once "How did you feel when you first came up with the idea?" His reply, delivered with an impish grin, was "I had to go and make the watch... immediately! " Cheers Tony P
Are you familiar with...
By: whitestrat : December 25th, 2008-19:30
The product known as the Starwheel from AP? If so, then why is Urwerk a totally original concept again? I think in this industry, there are no such things left as original concepts. There are either borrowed concepts, modified concepts, or re-hashed conce...
Talking design
By: Geo : December 24th, 2008-14:04
Hi Thomas, Art, In my original post I was only talking design, not mechanics/movements and I mentioned that line of companies, only because of their incredible start from scratch with original ideas, not borrowed from other established companies. (This ha...
I love the Antiqua regardless of its origin
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-19:32
As I understand it, the watch was designed by Jeff Barnes. It was originally meant to be a partnership, Barnes design and Halter watchmaking. Interestingly Vianney - and I like him personally - has a history of terminated or unsuccessful business relation...
I appreciate your point, SJX, and I agree with you, insofar as
By: ThomasM : December 25th, 2008-02:02
the explicit statement you are making. But it is a non-sequitor to my comment and question asked to Geo. Also, the original Halter-Barnes did see the light of day in addition to, and concurrent to/prior to the "premier" on Timezone. "premier" is such an o...
My comment was just an opinion
By: SJX : December 25th, 2008-02:08
rather than in response to your discussion with Geo. I know the Halter-Barnes was shown elsewhere besides Timezone but it was on Timezone that I first saw the watch and truth be told, first time I saw it the Antiqua didn't strike me as particularly intere...
You don't want to understand what I said
By: Geo : December 25th, 2008-00:19
Dear Thomas you don't understand me, or you don't want to. Barnes was in the beginning part of the company; it was Halter Barnes. Besides that many companies hire designers from outside to create something, that's way different than borrowing something, t...
Geo, understanding works and goes both ways...
By: ThomasM : December 25th, 2008-01:49
Hi, Geo, I have no agenda, and I was simply asking for your point of view on a specific set of circumstances so I can try to understand your position better. Is it possible you are not understanding my point? Vianney didn't hire Jeff Barnes; Jeff Barnes d...
to be clear, Geo...
By: ThomasM : December 25th, 2008-01:57
look, I'm not really interested in having this discussion "get heated" (I sense a little "heat" in your last reply) - for me, the issue in this sub-thread is origin of idea, and motivation. I see a clear difference between AP engaging Gerald Genta (and ot...
Thomas what was your question then ???
By: Geo : December 25th, 2008-03:01
I think I have said it all. Vianney Halter surely qualifies to be in the line of companies that started with original designs, not copied from other companies. The company started as Halter Barnes after all, these guys were a team. I think everybody knows...
If I may...
By: SJX : December 25th, 2008-02:37
What I understand Thomas to be saying is the difference between the examples. AP, Cartier et al hired Gerald Genta to design watches for them. Now they make Genta's designs under their own label but the public is fully aware Gerald Genta designed the watc...
design of VH and Kari
By: LVT : December 24th, 2008-23:35
I read some information about design of VH and Kari http://www.timezone.com/library/tzints/tzints0017 Kari is similar with Urban Juergensen http://www.urbanjuergensen.com/e/wrist/wrist.html
There comes a point when...
By: ThomasM : December 25th, 2008-15:16
One's point, such as it is, is just not worth the effort to make. Hi, Tony, My original question in this sub-thread, based on an admittedly subtle distinction, is clearly leading to more talking across each other than to each other. I'll "drop back and pu...
Not quite sure
By: Gary G : December 25th, 2008-20:42
...that I see the strong resemblance between KV and Jurgensen, but I must say that I like the designs of both quite a bit! Best, Gary G
"Real" inspiration
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-19:05
That is an even bigger can of worms TM. Genta designed the RO, Ingenieur, Nautilus and 222, the RO was launched first but is it truly the original? I don't know, but Genta could have well penned the Nautilus a few years before. Of course this is random sp...
Can of worms, that only gets squigglier when...
By: ThomasM : December 25th, 2008-02:22
you throw out speculation that "speculates" with real world examples. Hi, SJX, I'm not sure this is a "fair" thing to throw out there into the world, sorta like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. If you have even an inkling of seriousness about the Naut...
Wow, Thomas
By: amanico : December 25th, 2008-02:29
I say nothing, I'm just enjoying a lot your conversation with Geo and SJX, and all our other Purists Fellows... Really enjoyable, rich ,and captivating discussion, here. I'm really impressed, Thomas, and this makes me regret you live so far from France! W...
Mon plaisir, mon ami...
By: ThomasM : December 25th, 2008-02:40
and hopefully, we can realize that dream for both of us soon, hopefully accompanied by a nice Chablis or Quart de Charmes (well, maybe not, too sweet...okay, certain vintages only...) with a nice overflowing Plat du Roi of seafood... ;-) I really miss the...
Significance and copycats
By: SJX : December 24th, 2008-19:01
Hi Art, As I wrote in my original post, significance and copycats and not mutually exclusive. There are hordes of folk who will insist the Nautilus and Ingenieur are significant watches, although it can be argued that both are copycats of the Royal Oak. B...
Fully agreed, SJX, imitation doesn't preclude significance . . .
By: Dr No : December 24th, 2008-22:18
. . . and I have little doubt that Cvstos will emerge as a significant player in the marketplace; it's just that I have a high level of doubt that they will ever be considered as significant in historical terms, or more to the point, esteemed by aficionad...
what is it beyond its style?
By: Jean : December 26th, 2008-00:39
If you take away the "superficial similarities", what are you left with? Looking at the cvstos beyond its stylistic similarities (or blatant knocking off- w/e you feel it should be described as), I dont see a particularly compelling watch. I dont know eno...
RM copy
By: monochrome : December 25th, 2008-01:04
I really don't understand most part of the discussion here... let me explain why... the first time i saw a Cvstos i immediately thought of Richard Mille. When i look at most Cvstos models this thought comes up again... so IMHO Cvstos just makes name and f...
If it has a case like an RM, a crown like an RM...
By: Gaz : December 25th, 2008-01:21
I with you on this. My vocabulary has improved but I still don't see an advancement in the discussion unless I missed it. I am heating the pop corn as I type this. Glad my mother in law gave me a thesaurus for Christmas. But from a horological layman with...
Ditto..
By: LiL : December 30th, 2008-17:29
Wow.. your article sure generated a lotta comments.. Anyways.. just wanna wish ya a Happy New Year :o)