Esharp
1618
I am increasingly cynical
...regarding 99% of what I see on the web about watches and horology.
The blogs which feature in the likes of Hodinkee's Watchville app - with one or two exceptions - post little more than puff pieces. Nothing critical, no depth; just content that might as well have been sent out wholesale by the manufacturers' PR departments. Maybe it was, in fact; I wouldn't be surprised. There are a few knowledgeable and honest writers, people like Jack Forster who you mention, but they are really few and far between.
The entire marketing machine around the big brands turns me off more and more, sending me towards the independents. I'm sorry to say it appears that Richemont brands are the most egregious offenders.
The vintage market appears to be driven by similar interests.
User-driven sites are also getting more same-same, with people posting inane niceties (the downside of shared joy in ownership, I suppose) much more than anything interesting. It's all very well but a waste of my time to trawl through. Even here on PuristsPro I see a few moderators who come in, it seems, *every time* something slightly negative is posted, to try to bring a positive spin to the thread.
I guess no-one want to bite the hands that feed them, after all.
The only thing I find really rewarding is the real conversations in person with fellow enthusiasts.
Upshot is it is all very good for my wallet as this situation, combined with a dearth of products that are really compelling, keeps me from buying... (Just saw a tourbillon from a big brand at some US$300k which is clearly finished by machine at a level I would expect for a tenth the price. Who is in the market for such a thing?)
Best
E.
The Hype Machine is on Blast
Another thought to ruminate on for this weekend while the very fun PuristS GTG in Europe is keeping us entertained with regular updates. I thought it’d be a good juxtaposition to compare what I’d call the good vs. not-so-good sides of our hobby: friendshi...
Let me guess, Ben Clymer knows the dealer selling the watch...
OK, I'm only (half) joking, but Hodinkee is really just a giant infomercial at this point. They have a vested interest in fueling the vintage watch price bubble as they have their own vintage watch shop. Continued collaborations with manufacturers make it...
If you want to be misguided and misinformed about our hobby, Hodinkee is the place to go. [nt]
They have a few videos where they meet some interesting collectors that are worth seeing. The rest is junk.
A hobby is a hobby.
You might even make a little on the side just for fun. But once it starts paying the bills, it inevitably takes on a different character. J
There is a strong fixation by H to show that watch collecting is big business
and spotlight on six & seven figures watches. It's a shame it comes down to big money & making money so often. On the flip side this is why I enjoy PPro.
I am increasingly cynical
...regarding 99% of what I see on the web about watches and horology. The blogs which feature in the likes of Hodinkee's Watchville app - with one or two exceptions - post little more than puff pieces. Nothing critical, no depth; just content that might a...
About the positive or negative positions
Hi E, I think I'm among the people you feel are just trying to be opposed to negative comments so I'll try just to explain how I try to participate on the PP forum. In fact, Patek is a traditional brand where members have often a long experience with watc...
Thanks Mark!
Really appreciate your post and viewpoint as well as your contribution as Patek moderator. Ultimately where comments, positive or negative, are offered in an open and constructive spirit - which I think is more the case on this site than on any other! - t...
+1
I don't notice everything going on PPro but I generally see that it is fair and I think the moderators let discussions develop even if it may not be the most positive for a particular brand. Obviously I understand the moderators have their own opinions to...
Great thoughts!
It is important to keep your head cool and not to be an echo-chamber. By the way, about what tourbillon are you talking about?
scalpers..
are not nice. would have been better if the Tudor was bought by somebody who actually wanted to wear it.
I fully agree & share your POV
I started reducing my visits to H consistently over last few months. Some watches on their vintage shops are so jacked up in price even with incomplete set it is difficult to justify the price. they have consciously shifted from a good block to a commerci...
Ben Clymer is nothing more than a shill at this point.
I wish I had the patience to restate all the criticisms of him I have posted here and on Hodinkee and on other-branded-Fora over the last 2-3 years; but the point is his ego has gotten the best of him. He wants to be an "influencer" of the market-not just...
Money, that's all i want
watches are investments. vintage watches even more, thus websites, supposed-to-be gurus, etc try to show (and push) something different. Tudor is simply the last one, what about Heuer? Those artificially inflated prices are like a stock market's rally...s...
I expect H to add an investment grading to all their future watch reviews
The investment grade will be this icon 5 fat-cat-smoking-cigar = SS heritage inspired chrono LE that can be resold in one month for a $10k profit before the struggling manufacturer releases the same watch to the general public in 6 months ...
umhh..I think we can agree that watches are an expression of art
and if we put the price in the context of art even this price isn't so crazy...see this item that went for the same amount www.christies.com or if you want to have more fun and even Now clearly the price for this Tudor what it is and can indeed ...
But there's a huge difference
watches are seldom unique pieces, while each artwork is unique (prints, lithographs,etc are exceptions). nothing wrong with H policy, if someone has 350k to invest in that Tudor, he/she won't have any issue in feeding his/her family.
Thank you
Just thank you for this post. Great examples of "contemporary art". Never understood the pricing. Nothing but money laundering comes to my mind.
I agree that the "H" site has shifted from being enthusast-driven to commercially-driven in recent months. And I think I'm going to puke if I read one more comment about
someone's made-to-measure suit and shoes and why it's unacceptable to wear a sports watch when so clothed ("Oh Jeeves, how dare you lay out my Royal Oak when you know I'm dressing for dinner? Please, fetch my Calatrava and by God do it with haste!"). With...
I still like H and there are plenty of articles and news about watches...
bias is always there in some brands/pieces but I think that there is a right balance. I see this news about the Tudor as an interesting piece of information...to reinforce Tudor as a brand and benefit the brand. In fairness Tudors are some of the most hon...
There's still some good stuff there, but my impression is that it's steadily becoming more labor intensive to separate the wheat from the chaff.
My comments were not intended to have anything to do with Tudor as a brand or manufacture. I don't have a strong opinion on them one way or the other. And I've never bought into the "halo effect" whereby an astronomical sales price for a vintage watch is ...
I too (if I read you right) am upset that "haven't a clue billionaires" have taken vintage cars and vintage watches away from so many (me).
But the market is the market, and if '67 Malibus and HW Tudors now go for 350K so be it. With Hodinkee I enjoyed reporting, not hustling. And that is where this ezine is now. It (or Clymer) has a vested interest in making the vintage market-the auction ma...
Great perspective and yet some more interesting information re: the auction hat tip. I'm getting the impression that there's more going on here (or there?) than I knew.
And yes, as to what the market dictates, I believe we are in agreement. I think my take on the situation comes from my years spent as a trader: I believe in markets, but I'm ever wary of the possibility that someone is "talking their book" or that of one ...
I'm learning more and more from the posts in this thread by those who are ostensibly more "in the know" than I. But, again, I'm a skeptic by nature and profession when it
comes to salesmen, be they sellers of watches or fixed-for-floating swaps ;-) I wish we didn't need to have this sort of discussion, but seeing as how we do, I'm glad that this forum and its members exist to facilitate it in a rational and even-handed man...
I am not sure I follow...
Every blog (or forum) is made of opinions and clearly Ben has his own view of certain pieces. Actually he did report the news...of course Bacs and other auction houses try to get the best for their buyers but I don't see it is an issue. H is a free resour...
I have nothing against Hodinkee nor Ben Clymer. He can write what he wants, I can believe what I want. That's fine for me. ;)
But if I had to believe what he wrote about this Tudor 7923, then I would be very happy as I have a few watches which are as rare and desirable than this 7923, even Red. The Pakistani Fifty Fathoms Milspec, for example. How many did we see? In the real, 2...
felicitation Nico ! you're millionaire only with the Tudors you've ;-)
only the question about H is - is it a business house or a neutral blog about Horology. If they're explicit & tell it is a business house - well, he can write what ever he wants. else, there are some ethics H have to think about. but as you say, he can wr...
there is no such a thing as a neutral blog...
or even a neutral forum. Both are made by people with opinions..and rightly so! I wouldn't want to read press releases. With all the due respect I have read this "I will switch somewhere else" pretty much every day there..yet everyone is still there comme...
It's still a good source of information, and the pictures are nice :)
But I take it for what it is - usually just a regurgitation of marketing information provided by the manufacturers and some nice photographs. Certainly not unbiased, critical reviews by any stretch of the imagination. I think that people criticize Hodinke...
Is it wrong to think for oneself and to change dispositions?
A few others have replied about being naturally skeptical in all things. This may be a matter of cultural difference. I don't find that there's anything wrong with calling bulls*** on a watch blog about something and still continuing to read it. I think a...
Haha!
I suspect my GTG invite will be lost in the mail. It would be very boring to talk mainly about $$$. It is always something that comes up naturally of course. But it is much more fun to hear about the journey.
Good for you Nicolas
I suspect there are quite a few PuristS in the queue for your treasures.
The most important is that those who want a watch make their own opinion, certainly not to follow in a blind way what some are saying.
We are sharing elaborated opinions and sometimes convictions, here. Speaking about value is not PuristS' favorite game. Value is so subjective. I cannot pretend some of my treasures are worth 340 K USD, it is hard to pretend that a 7923 is worth that kind...
Don't forget to get some toilet papers or napkins from Jocke :) It boost the sale price big time :)
Congrats to a new multi-millionaire.
I agree; the Web is the wild west. They can be whatever they want to be. Content (whether real or not) is king...
Ben is a smart guy. Hodinkee has blown up and why not monetize it. He did not create the vintage bubble (although he has profited). As for the dealers, well, when the bubble bursts, they will go back to selling bowling balls or whatever the object d'art o...
demand and supply...
Is not Ben or H driving up prices but the market..so if there is a bubble well..let it be. I personally don't buy vintage so I am totally safe I see the vintage market played by few that want something really exclusive (and rusty) for their own reasons th...
I am happy Hodinkee exists
as some of the content is fantastic, but let's not forget their direct involvement with Tudor. I'm not sure if still exists, but at the very least they were the site where the official Tudor forum was being held for a number of years.
Valid points here.
Very clear that certain incentives are driving actions at H. Nonetheless, I do very much enjoy Jack Forster's articles.
Jack forster is like the shining light there.
(Btw, hope you had a great weekend of celebration!). Cheers. -Joe
I am glad the site exists.
They give us information that otherwise wouldn't always be available. Just remember to always read with a healthy dose of skepticism.