dr.kol
11333
Jumbo is costing the same as always
Royal Oak "Jumbo" has a very special meaning to me. In 1972 when 5402 was introduced, I started my shipping career in the mature age of 16. I took my first job on 15th June 1972 onboard m.s. "Finnriver" - a conventional dry cargo ship carrying wood pulp, paper and sawn timber from Scandinavia to Mediterranean and some bulk cargoes like fertilisers back to north.
Here is my first working place:
Those days life was quite tuff. When I stepped onboard the ship for the first time, an older AB beat me quite badly just to show who is the boss. But it's time for memories another time - this is a watch forum.
Anyhow, my salary as a deck boy was 480 Finnish Marks per month and it equalled 440 Swiss Francs. The seaman's tax was fixed 18% so my net salary was 361 Swiss Francs.
Those days the newly introduced Royal Oak 5402 was costing 3,200 Swiss Francs meaning that the watch was representing my 8 months 25 days salary.
At the same time I could have bought every month with my salary one Rolex 5513...
The new 15202 that is very very close to the original 5402 has a price tag in Europe of € 18,500 while Rolex 114060 is about € 6,200. Relatively speaking the prices of Rolex rose much faster than the ones of Royal Oak.
According to the current contracts, the lowest salary onboard vessels flying under Finnish flag is € 1,897.50 per month. In other words, the lowest paid Finnish sailor needs about 10 months to collect the money for a 15202 Royal Oak. Not so much has changed.
The issue with vessels under a flag of convenience is a bit different. The minimum salaries under the ITF contract are as follows:
- Ordinary seaman $ 1,375 per month
- Deck boy $ 1,132 per month
So today most of the deck boys would need to work for about 18.5 month to buy their new 15202 Royal Oak and they could not buy a Rolex 5513 every month but would need to work some half a year to buy their Rolex 114060.
Based on this example I am surprised how little the price of Jumbo Royal Oak has changed in nearly 43 years and how much more expensive a Rolex Submariner is than what it used to be decades ago.
I spent a lot of time working and studying. Nowadays I do not need to paint the deck of the ship anymore but operate some 1.5 million dead weight tons of tankers in the fleet of my company. The vessels also look pretty different.
And naturally, a Royal Oak 15202 looks better with a suits than it would look working with most and paint onboard a ship. I was interested about watches already in 1972 but those days something like Royal Oak was something more than a distant dream.
I am sometimes calling the current prices of watches insane. However, some of the prices were insane already in 1972 but the market has changed a bit because most of the better watches are carrying an insane price tag today.
I believe that the people with "normal" income will welcome the smart watches and a long run those will be the winners. Many of the manufacturers of really fine watches have grown too big and the prices are not understandable anymore when thinking what is the value of the work most of the people do.
Best, Kari
Jumbo is costing the same as always
Royal Oak "Jumbo" has a very special meaning to me. In 1972 when 5402 was introduced, I started my shipping career in the mature age of 16. I took my first job on 15th June 1972 onboard m.s. "Finnriver" - a conventional dry cargo ship carrying wood pulp, ...
Do you know that seamen are having a lot of stories?
Unfortunately this is not the right forum to tell i.e. about love in La Spezia. Seaman's love that lasted less than 5 minutes... Lol! Best, Kari
La Spezia ..
.. i once had to run for some 'maffiosi' in La Spezia ... dangerous city ... . Bim
Not as bad as Naples...
There was a strike in La Spezia and that was quite common those days. We stayed there for 2 weeks and during that time I learned many new tricks. One of those was to drink Campari. When we went to discharge the other half of the cargo to Naples, I got rob...
Don't be ashamed ...
.. you got robbed in Naples ... i guess everybody who went there got robbed :-)
Pleasurable read Kari!
I really enjoyed your history and analysis. I import containers of my custom stone products and have learned a little about the industry along the way. I find the vessels fascinating and enjoy tracking them across the ocean as they make there way to the U...
After being over 40 years in the industry,
I do not have any kind of idea where the tankers of my company are. But I know that the ROI was 55.24% last year, I have exact January numbers, a good idea how February is going to end and what type of tankers I intend to add to the fleet list. It's funny...
Return on Investment
The crude oil tanker market has lately been a bit crazy... Our average costs of i.e. 115,000 DWT tankers are in the region of $ 15,000 per day. The spot market gives in average some $ 50,000 per day. If it will continue like this just a few more months, I...
Ah uh .. dear me :-)
One does realize the oil market is quite stormy these last months i guess :-) Bim
My guess it's politics
With the current prices nothing is left in Russia after the production costs and costs of Transneft pipeline. That make aggressions towards other countries a bit trickier. And perhaps the Russian nation starts asking one day: "what are our leaders doing"....
The problem is ...
... when all the Russians are wealthy ... which ones will be the poorest wealthy people ;-) ...
My guess is that they eat some kind of
hormons. That stuff is developing the muscles but also influencing in funny ways between the ears. Best, Kari
Chernobyl is in Ukraine,
perhaps VVP wants to get some more of this radiation. His admin seems to love radiation because they are even spicing the tea with that. Also in London... Best, Kari
Yes, forgot that ..
.. if they want Ukraïn so badly they can start cleaning up Chernobyl ... . ah yes, the London 'incident' ... after all, these James Bond movies give people ideas ... F
I remember Chernobyl very well...
it was my 30th birthday and I flew from Paris to Helsinki but the AF plane landed 170 km from Helsinki. When I finally came home, my whole family were waiting for me but I was pissed like a baboon. Luckily I remember the birthday present my dad gave to me...
I enjoyed that post, Kari
It's not often we read of how different things used to be, but when it relates directly to how much effort and waiting it took to get to where you are and what's on your wrist, the story makes it so much more real and personal, adding to the appreciation....
We should, indeed, appreciate our watches.
For most of the people those are something distant and they also consider the prices insane. I like to remind myself that I'm in a very lucky position when I have been able to buy during the first six weeks of the year three new watches. And all of these ...
Nice story and some interesting details. The (Polish) seamen ...
I met on a trip from Hamburg to Aquaba (years ago) have been far away from dreaming about watches at all ;-) Cheers, Oliver
Most of the seamen dream about the same issues
and indeed, watches are not among those. Best, Kari
When i started ..
.. my little business ten years ago i could (in theory) very easily buy a new Submariner every month ... these days that would be a bit harder to accomplish ... unfortunately these days i pay a nice Tudor every month for the studies of my only child ... w...
We can. If you want to get a crude flavour to that.
In fact that size is my smaller; it's an Aframax - just 115,000 DWT. We have also three Suezmaxes of 152,000 DWT and somehow I got recently mixed with a VLCC that can load three times the volume of the pictured vessel. To such a "can" you could place arou...
Naaah thanks ..
As a young kid i once told my mum at the dinner table that my steak tasted like cement (the taste reminded me at the odor in my grandfathers cement factory). So off course everybody laughed at me ... so i ate half of the steak and kept moaning about the t...
End of story ...
he prefers (lots of) chocolate still today, just to be save :-) Take care & have fun! Oliver
It was interesting those days.
My old man thought that without some tough sailing experience I will never become a man. He was very worried those days because my hair was even covering a part of my ears and sometimes in the back of the head the hair went on top of the collar. However, ...
Very good perspective, Kari...your story tells me 2 things ....
Keep spending money because $$$ keeps depreciating and to buy Rolexes...just kidding. It's all supply and demand, diversity is good. When things go to a far extreme, it will tend to bounce back to the other end. Nice story and nice Jumbo. Thanks for shari...
If US$ is depreciating,
what is then € doing? It nearly looks like that euro is having a competition with Russian rouble: which one is sliding down faster. We will soon end up to a weird situation: only Swiss can afford buying Swiss watches. Best, Kari
nice story Kari...
... makes me feel like going out to get myself a AP Jumbo.. well not immediately.. but soon.. Cheers !
Getting a 15202 Jumbo
is a very good idea. It's among the top watches I have ever had on my wrist. Best, Kari
My opinion
The royal oak "jumbo" is pretty the same watch it was more than 40 years ago. The same movement, the same bracelet, dial making and general finishing, with just minor changes to the case (cheaper because of the different way to make it) and buckles. And a...
Fascinating post (and thread), Kari.
Great of you to share a bit of your history! ...