Wow great targets! [nt]

Jun 02, 2019,05:54 AM
 

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The best of Audemars Piguet!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-05:26
Some of us may forget that two decades ago before the Royal Oak became so popular, Audemars Piguet were making some astonishing dress watches. Fortunately for me, these watches now offer excellent value for money in the used market and I am considering pl...  

The first piece is simply amazing- really my taste in several ways.

 
 By: ChristianDK : May 15th, 2019-05:30
Thank you, Sham for posting this masterpiece

Thank you Christian!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-05:33
I know it is a bit reckless of me to post these watches especially as I am planning to bid on them but these beauties need more appreciation even if it means my not being to obtain them! And yes, I am partial to the Star Wheel too which may go for the sam... 

I dare say that you will be one of many purists who will outbid me! :-)

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-05:43
At least leave one for me if possible please

I have only bought at an auction once!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-06:11
and that was a new piece. This is a bit of a gamble on my part I guess but I am expecting to have to send it for a service. Thanks for the good wishes. I shall need them!!

I have not enquired but

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:56
I will set aside USD5k for any service required which should cover it I hope.

LOL! [nt]

 
 By: MichaelC : May 15th, 2019-08:27

In which case, I strongly suggest

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-05:55
that you go for this one!! It is number 10 out of 10. I love it but hey, I am sure you do too

Both lovely 😊 [nt]

 
 By: centurionone : May 15th, 2019-06:02

Both very nice

 
 By: nwk00 : May 15th, 2019-06:26
Thanks for sharing

You are most welcome!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-10:11
These watches are almost like hidden gems in the world of Audemars Piguet!

That first one is extremely tasty

 
 By: VinnieD : May 15th, 2019-06:27
I find the star wheel complication much more interesting than a tourbillon for example This small package packs quite a punch! Best of luck getting it

Cheers Vinnie!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-10:12
I shall put all my effort into obtaining this watch but I fear my best may not be good enough! One can only try

Great watches, I also spotted them

 
 By: dedestexhes : May 15th, 2019-06:29
if I would bid on one of them, it would be the first one. However being only 33mm, that is a tad too smal for me. Perhaps the second one wears bigger seen the « dial »? Hope you get the one you want! Keep us posted, Dirk

Dirk, they are both the same size.

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-10:14
In fact there were a number of reiterations of the John Schaeffer minute repeater in the mid 90s and they all measured the same. Some were perpetual calendars, others were jump hours or plain minute repeaters but size wise no difference.

Go for it, Sham!

 
 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : May 15th, 2019-06:32
Definitely it'll be the perfect Eid treat.

Definitely some great deals to be found on "vintage" APs

 
 By: MichaelC : May 15th, 2019-08:28
Some of the complications available for the asking prices are unreal.

I totally agree!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-10:19
It just does not make sense when one can buy a used minute repeater from a top brand in remarkable conditon for less money than some of the independents are asking for finely finished three handed watches. Don't get me wrong - I love the Voutilainens, Rex... 

Good choices, particularly the first.

 
 By: jmpTT : May 15th, 2019-09:39
To be honest, many of the dress watches in the 1980s to late-1990s were incredibly conservative. Perhaps indicative of a market that was lost and not yet found. The 80s and 90s watches that ventured outside this comfort zone are under-appreciated, perhaps... 

Agreed!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-10:21
Perhaps it is the size that is off putting, I am not quite sure but these John Schaeffers represent a bargain in today's world. I have no idea what they were priced when new but they seem undervalued in comparison with much out there.

Thank you Nico!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-11:50
This seems to be the general consensus and I am swayed towards the Star Wheel too

Same for me! [nt]

 
 By: amanico : May 15th, 2019-12:15

Exquisite!

 
 By: patrick_y : May 15th, 2019-15:13
I'd be happy with either one!

Thanks Patrick!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:46
Hope you are doing well. I'd be happy with either one too

The first one hands down!

 
 By: jleno : May 15th, 2019-16:07
Whoa, I'm incredibly surprised at the estimates for these. AP platinum minute repeaters under $40K??? Is that real?

I assume...

 
 By: APROchrono : May 15th, 2019-17:04
The estimates exclude buyers premium? So another 15-30%? Can someone more well versed in auctions confirm. I have never bid at auction... prefer private sales.

True, but estimates are just that...

 
 By: APROchrono : May 15th, 2019-17:14
Serves to draw people in to bid and help drive what really matters - what it sells for. Or am I being too cynical?

25% premium is the norm at these levels. I know the wandering hour version (#2 of 3) sold for about US$60k via Phillips HK a while back and the same watch for CHF32k back in 2010.

 
 By: Jay (Eire) : May 15th, 2019-19:26
The skeleton version, watch #10, fetched US$79k almost in 2012 at Christie’s. Watch #8 sold for closer to US$40k just a year before at Sotheby’s. But something in my memory tells me I’ve seen these go for far less, I just can find the details right now. ... 

Thanks Jay for the recollection.

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:55
I await in anticipation for the forthcoming auction. I have set my own limits - self discipline is key!

The AP minute repeaters

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:53
at the Geneva auctions that just ended last weekend were generally sold at about 20% above the estimates (inc buyers premium). The fact that the buyers premium is 25% indicates that the estimates were about right.

In my opinion, AP minute repeaters

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:51
are terribly undervalued at auctions. Maybe the smaller sized ones just do not command as high a price as the larger sized cases but hey, they are still minute repeaters and ideal for the smaller wristed folk like me.

Thank you!!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-22:37
I think it is a big 'IF' but I shall give it my best shot

Unfortunately I did not bid for the star wheel

 
 By: sham1 : May 27th, 2019-09:08
the reason being Christie's were kind enough to send me photos of the watch and the condition report confirmed that there was a ding on the case band at 9 o'clock which was off putting. For the record, both the above watches were sold for the same price -... 

The buyer's premium is usually 25% at the price level

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:49
Having observed auctions, I have noticed that many estimates are exceeded especially at Philips auctions where the estimates seem on the lower course some lots remain unsold but the majority do sell.

Absolutely!

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-21:48
If you have been following the Geneva auctions, quite a few went for USD40k and under which included the 25% buyer's premium ie the hammer price was USD32k. Quite a bargain.

Absolutely Nico!I

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-22:32
As I was mentioning to jleno above, I have budgeted USD5k for a service and I hope that would be enough. I hope

Would you send it to AP?

 
 By: jleno : May 15th, 2019-22:38
It might be worth checking with them first.

Yes I would and yes

 
 By: sham1 : May 15th, 2019-22:46
I shall be checking with them, thank you.

Maybe that is why they are selling at relatively bargain prices

 
 By: sham1 : May 16th, 2019-03:59
it is like buying a classic car and having it restored but I believe this AP is in better condition than a classic car! If not, I will have to rob a bank!

A question to an expert Nico

 
 By: sham1 : May 27th, 2019-09:52
Can a ding on a watch case be repaired and be made to disappear? The star wheel above had a ding at the case band at 9 o'clock so I decided to refrain from bidding. The hammer price was HKD350,000 which was double its lower estimate and in excess of its h... 

Here goes!

 
 By: sham1 : May 27th, 2019-10:37
...  

Good question Nico! :-)

 
 By: sham1 : May 27th, 2019-10:50
Christie's sent this photo to me and to be honest, I never got around to asking them where the ding was!! Yes, I know, I know.....

Thanks Nico!

 
 By: sham1 : May 27th, 2019-11:11
Maybe I should have asked you before the auction rather than after it!!

I must make a confession

 
 By: sham1 : May 27th, 2019-14:12
The final hammer price was above what I would have paid for it so I am not too disappointed Nico

I also participated the bid and dropped out when the hammer price went beyond my budget.

 
 By: sleepy_templar : June 1st, 2019-20:09
and just saw your post to chip in the discussion. I totally agree with you that Phllips is generally conservative in their estimate and Christie’s is more realistic. It’s just different auction tricks. If i remember correctly it’s already the second time ... 

Oh wow! What a coincidence

 
 By: sham1 : June 2nd, 2019-00:04
or is this not a coincidence?!! In which case, I hope you will be bidding at the Christie's auction in New York where two more AP minute repeaters will be of offer. Again, both in platinum and again both John Schaeffers. I am just wondering if all these w...  

I noticed them. But i think in NYC in live auction they may go beyond 45K

 
 By: sleepy_templar : June 2nd, 2019-05:46
Moreover after losing the AP bid I spent my budget on other watches so I won’t participate this time

My budget was well exceeded months ago!

 
 By: sham1 : June 2nd, 2019-10:11
But with you not bidding for the APs in New York, I might even stand half a chance!!

Only 40k for one of the minute repeaters!

 
 By: sham1 : June 6th, 2019-23:18
But I did not wake up for the auction - 6am Kuala Lumpur time!

A friend of mine called it

 
 By: sham1 : June 7th, 2019-06:28
'The man in the iron mask'!! Limited to 3 pieces, that was going to sell for a high price!

Fine, then. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : June 2nd, 2019-00:01

Targets they might always remain Nico!

 
 By: sham1 : June 2nd, 2019-10:12
Let's see what happens on Thursday.

Well said! [nt]

 
 By: amanico : June 2nd, 2019-14:26

I did not wake up in time Nico

 
 By: sham1 : June 6th, 2019-23:17
The auction started at 6am Kuala Lumpur time and I am glad I slept through after last week's indulgence at Patek

;) [nt]

 
 By: amanico : June 6th, 2019-23:28

Thanks Roland!

 
 By: sham1 : May 16th, 2019-09:55
Your choice puts you in good company and I will bid as much as I can afford!

Roland, if you would like to meet up in KL

 
 By: sham1 : May 17th, 2019-10:26
I will come to your hotel wherever you are!! I can't expect anyone to battle the KL traffic not even for an AP minute repeater!!