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Some thoughts
Just wanted to raise some points regarding the topic.
- owners are not necessarily collectors. Wealthy Patek owners don't necessarily have deep passion in watches, they are just users. Patek is just an object of their luxurious necessities such as a Bentley car, a Kiton jacket or an Hermes suitcase, etc.
- advantages of modern pieces. Modern watches are in general more accurate, have better dial and case manufacturing quality (due to modern technology, nothing to do with style and taste), better water resistance, less sensitive to magnetic fields, more interesting combination of complications, etc.
- fears and worries. Big concerns in condition, original parts, accuracy, price evaluation, water resistance, shock resistance, after service possibilities, etc. It's indeed very difficult to find a vintage piece in excellent or very good condition. Don't expect every wealthy Patek owner to be an horological expert, it's just not realistic and fair.
- size. As a matter of fact, the average height of human being has increased from 1950s to 2010s. Affordable vintage Pateks are on average (much) smaller than modern ones. In addition, we do have different dressing code from 50 years ago, less formal and more casual in general. Smaller watches are more suitable for formal dress in my opinion.
- information source. The main sources of information for most consumers in the developing regions are basically company advertisement, boutique sales reps and various VIP events. They have little chance to be aquatinted with vintage pieces.
- secondary market. Europe and USA boast a well developed and trustworthy secondary market to offer quality vintage pieces. There are unfortunately not many such markets in most developing regions.
- language barrier. Looking for, negotiating and buying for a vintage piece from far away in English, French, Italian or German languages is impossible for many.
- Patek is not the only exception. Psychologically speaking, the mainstream collection (current and modern) will always attract more attention and evoke stronger purchase desire than past vintage items for a much bigger general audience. This is very similar for jewelry, car, furniture, apartment, clothes, shoes, etc.
This being said, I am very much fond of vintage pieces. I hope that one day I will be fortunate enough to have 3448, 3445, 570, 3700, etc. Had tried on a 2499 twice and was really impressed by its understated beauty…but far away from my reach.
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Provocation for wealthy PP collectors: Modern against Vintage
I do not understand why specially Asian, Russian and Arabic collector prefer modern PP against vintage. I understand that if someone buy a single Patek can buy a new one only, for istance for celebrate a single event or for a watch to wear. I see that Vip...
I'm far from wealthy but here's my answer
I hate those silly 33mm watches, even 35 is baby size to me I pretty often look at the vintage market , not patek because they are too expensive but other brands. No so long ago I had was close to buy a Longines with a top movement from the 1950's … I lik...
Bruno...i disagree with your answer to some extent...
....its simply wrong to state that a certain size watch is "the perfect size". It may be the perfect size for you, but that will differ from one person to the next. The perfect size watch for me is probably 37-38mm...and depending on the style of the case...
The "Asian's" response =)
For me the difficulty is about access. Sure I would love to put money on a 1518, 2499, and for instance one of my new dreams is a Rolex Padellone, but I think the reason why a lot of Asian's buy new is because of limited access to the source. I, for insta...
i also think....
.....to call something "silly" just because you are not a fan is too subjective. There is no right or wrong with personal taste Bruno. I tend to agree that 33mm watch is too small for MY taste......but there are plenty of people who like very small watche...
Silly? Wow, Bruno, I think you are going too far, or thinking too fast.
What is silly for you is just Elegance for others... Best, Nicolas
most people will call a 50mm or bigger watches silly
I wear those and I call 33mm watches silly :-)
Bruno, as already mentioned before ...
different people may have different wrists, needs, tastes ... and it is not up to us to blame them. I don´t see the need to call it "silly" (again) and would like to ask you to behave like a gentleman/Purist. Thanks for understanding! Oliver
Bruno....you are missing something quite important...
......nobody on this forum has called the watches that you choose to wear "silly". Yet, you see fit to call watches worn by others "silly".
guys..... such a fuss for just one word?
I don't care if somebody likes or hates a specific watch, size, style, color.... Didn't know 'silly' was such a strong word....
Hello
I too do not care of somebody does not like a certain type of watch but I supppose this forum caters to the needs of everyone so we should try not to offend the more sensitive members here who are equally passionate about their smaller sized watches. I we...
Correct...well-said
.....there is no right or wrong in terms of one's personal taste for watches. But there is a right or wrong when it comes to showing appropriate respect for others. On this forum, where tastes can and do differ widely, there should be one constant and tha...
Possible Explanation..
In some of the areas you mention where there is an overwhelming preference for new over vintage it may have to so with the culture and psyche; in some of the cultures it is felt owning something that belonged to some previous unknown person etc may bring ...
Size!
I agree with Bruno on the size front. I am just about to buy a 39mm PP and it will be the smallest one I have - I love the 5004 and 3970 and would own one of each probably, but they are simply too small and I would never wear them, and I don't buy PPs to ...
Interesting practice...
then suppose this practice is applied to PP watches, during the time where the customer holds the watch, is it also his liability should the watch be scratched or damaged ? Just a thought that flashed by, I am keen to know
bit more..
the high end brands have only entered India in the recent past and the high Duties/ taxes make them very dear to buy is certainly not retailed by anyone and watches don't apply to this explanation..its vintage jewellery and larger pre-owned stones.i was ...
Prefer vintage
I prefer vintage over modern although I have both. The amazing craftsmanship in such a small package is more important to me than the size which is purely decorative. I think small movements sitting in a larger case look ridiculous especially with sapphir...
Getting there
Watch collecting is a journey, a unique to you, culmination of exposure experience and environment. Today's modern patek buyer may or may not be tomorrow's vintage customer, it all depends on a number of variables. What I can say is, and speaking for myse...
Thornteq...
....again, well said. One buys a watch because it is what pleases you....if you prefer 37mm, then great. Personal taste is central....there is no "perfect size". I find such a concept impossible to rationalise. I am with you....i find the vintage pieces h...
It is not a matter of Nationality ( I hate generalizations on Nationality, by the way ).
It has to do with several factors: 1/ Size: Many delicious vintage Pateks are " small ", as for example, the maginficient Ref 96 with its 31 mm case. 2/ Availability: Finding one in good condition is not that easy. A 130 is a sublime Chrono. 3/ Knowledge:...
+1 agreed on all points
and thanks for your words on nationality, this was an important to make imho. Passion happens to everyone and can go in any direction. François
+1
I will add that it is certainly the case that to many, blingin'it is an important part of a watch....its important to "be seen" with an expensive watch. To me, that is irrelevant.
A slightly different opinion
I agree with all the comments I have read so far although arguably the definition of the perfect watch size varies according to wrist size. I have a small wrist and currently wear a 34mm watch and would be less comfortable with anything 39mm and above. Th...
"I had not sent them back to Patek for a full overhaul"
So, you are missing something. I only can recommend to do so, next time. My most accurate watch ever, which is not a Patek Philippe by the way, is not that good anymore after getting a regular service. "Never change a winning team" is something that was m...
My thoughts
I disagree with some views that size is a major consideration. Something that is proportionate and highly functional will win many arguments over size as an independent and absolute criteria. As for who collects what. I know only a few collectors. There a...
…..
…. being at the right place in the right time. Modern collectors ( hence the word modern ) don't have much knowledge on vintage watches as a whole. We learn watches as it goes along, as time goes along. We buy what the market was on offer, everyone makes ...
JapoJapo....
......your question is absolutely right to raise. A forum such as this is exactly where to discuss this. For the record, I agree almost 100% with the comments that you have made. I am not entirely sure why so many vintage Patek have been ignored by those ...
I start with "light weights": better vintage or modern?
Vintage: 565 steel year 1942 Modern:3998 Platin year 1995 I do not understand why the first is vertical and the other orizonthal!!! Anyway is not a IT forum but watch one!!! Which one do you prefer between my two Calatrava? Greetings from Italy ...
Some thoughts
Just wanted to raise some points regarding the topic. - owners are not necessarily collectors. Wealthy Patek owners don't necessarily have deep passion in watches, they are just users. Patek is just an object of their luxurious necessities such as a Bentl...
Some very good points here...
.....in fact, many of them follow-on directly from the distinction yo make between being an owner and being a collector. That is an excellent observation and one I did not consider. Yes, in this sense, many of the points that you raise are logical. For an...
Modern vs Vintage
We must remember that Patek as a company, has remained relevant through many years and has found a way to honor its heritage with always keeping an eye to the future - changing sizes along the way. What we consider Modern is tomorrow's Vintage. May we be ...
Your post is not offensive for modern collectors... its just offensive
... Your post is not about watches, its about judging people. You ask WHY, and you answer yourself even if you claim that you don't understand. At least be honest and call things by their name. It seems quite clear that you mean "new-money" when you menti...
Lebanon
I apreciated you post. Also in Lebanon there are different culture... my mother is Lebanese from Beirut, rue Hambra... Greetings from Italy to all Lebanese people!!!
:)) hahaha.... greeting to all italians!
in the end, we share the same Mediterranean culture... Really? You mamma is from Lebanon, from Hamra... what a world. I could feel there was something right about you, not everybody knows that there is only 4 patek 1518 in steel ever made. Actually, for t...
I looked at it another way.....
.....I definitely agree that making this a culture-specific view is wrong. There is new money everywhere.....and lets be clear, there is nothing wrong in new money. In fact, the more new money i can get my hands on the better.....However, there is somethi...
Your reply made me smile...
... especially about Welsh :)...and its a very good reply, i totally agree with all you said. Let's go to the core idea of the post, which is that modern piece are the choice of customers that tend to search for bling and status symbol, while the vintage ...
LoL
In Rolex, I have about 80% vintage. In JLC, I have about 10% vintage. In Patek, I have 50% vintage. Fricks, you describe yourself in a way that the average lottery winner would never describe themself...btw! A growing love and insidious creeping of affect...
So basically, you mean that you have 20% of modern...
... Rolex? What a surprise, don't tell me they get wrist time too... Back to our topics, i think that all that instagram trend is democratizing and reaching more and more people. Patek not being sparred by it, fashion, trend, bling, cars and watch shots, ...
20% is about right overall....yep...maybe a bit higher
My vintage Rolex? Yes, every single one gets wrist-time. I am one of these guys who will only own a watch if i can wear it....once i stop wearing a watch for whatever reason, I tend to sell it. Over the years, the ones that have lasted have been the ones ...
That's exactly the point!
If you buy a watch for “the bling” then you want everyone to readily know how expensive it is and for this you need a new watch, knowing the prices of vintage watches requires some prior knowledge (it reminds me a good post we had on the fact that you nee...
I agree with most of this......
Not all...but most. I think it would be wrong to argue that only vintage collectors are passionate about watches....many modern collectors have no interest in bling/status symbolism at all...I think its important to make that point....many modern collecto...
I agree too...
Collector can be of Vintage or Modern passionate, as well as a mix of both
True
and I am probably a mix of both slowly converting to a vintage only kind of guy. Best, Stan
Lot´s of interesting ...
and good (to me) replies, which I apreciated to read. Thanks, to all! To me there are just too many good reasons to collect, adore, admire, buy ... watches from Patek Philippe (and others) - no matter if we talk about modern or vintage. Different people m...