Patek Philippe

I see two of the new in-house chrono 5170's listed on eB** today. Anybody else hearing of them at the dealers? My AD told me he wasn't expecting one until spring. Anyone tempted? I want to see one in person and may wait to see what it looks like in the ot... 

Hi, Good news if they are out, not as good if they are on sale already on the net! I can't wait to see it again, although it can be in my reaching range Cheers Dje

It is rather a pity that the first ones found their way not to collectors and persons that bought them for their enjoyment but in order to profit from them.... Sad.

It's great that the watch is out, but it is a great shame that a true collector can only get them on eBay and by paying close to double price. Same with the 5131, they sell on eBay for 3-4 times the list price, while a regular collector can just forget ab... 

Of course all the secondary dealers will disagree and tell me its capitalism at its best. What is "tragic" is most of these secondary dealers don't even have in their possession the Pateks they are pushing. What is a "crying shame" is the AD's whom supply... 

Whatever their stated policies may be, I'm sure they love it when their watches go for a huge premium. I doubt it would happen if they seriously decided to prevent it.

they do try to prevent it.... For example if a 5131 is sold through Frey market, the original buyer is blacklisted... Cheers

I don't. Trading is their business. Regards Ling

I think you are refering to those grey market dealers and not those so called "real" ADs. Patek is pretty strict on this. From what I know their ADs have been told not to humor those grey market dealers. But then again there will always be some black shee... 

deliveries started this past week in the US. I'm just surprised at the speed in which they landed on grey dealer's sites instead of collectors... don't the AD's know their customers? I assume that they allocate them to their best customers, since these wa... 

I'd presume the grey market dealers go to the ADs posing as collectors. If they buy a lot of watches from the AD then what's his options? I'm sure he suspects they are grey market - but do they want to antagonize them? What if they really are just very we... 

Whether the AD's know what will happen to the pieces that they sale or not, will not change a thing. There will always be someone prepared to buy and than immediately sell the piece for a profit. The only people who will ultimately loose out, are us the g... 

how did you know that the 5170 is from the So Cal AD? My AD once had a piece flipped by a customer, and HSWA tracked it back within days to him... he had a bad day. He fired his customer. The 5131 that was flipped recently was tracked back to a FL guy, an... 

Does Patek have people that act as customers for the ebay auctions and request pictures of the warranty documents? Then trace info from those numbers. Of course it's probably easier to track a 5016 on the grey market than say 5970 (from a theoretical prod... 

by looking at the merchandise to verify prior to a purchase (and checking out the numbers) without actually buying them, and occasionally purchasing the watches. Whichever way it is, as a collector, I don't want to be in the black list at all.....it's a s... 

Patek will always figure it out! Being on that bad list can seriously affect one's collection goals. I have read some stories of collectors that were completely turned off to the brand after being put on the bad list. Although grey dealers are in the game... 

You probably have to buy some, and probably to the same amount that you spent to over pay the flipper..... But in this case you will have more watches to enjoy in your collection and on your wrist.... Cheers

While I would certainly enjoy purchasing the other watches, I doubt purchasing a 5146p, 5980 and 5711 for good measure (100k+ sum) would allow me to acquire a 5131 at list.

for the one 5131 your AD gets every 2yrs (since approx only 12/yr, 1/mth to make) you need to be their BEST client and they need to really really really like you. That being said, be nice to your ADs, send them gifts! haha

I apologize to our US members, I know there are quite a few ... but .... When I look at places like Ebay , chrono24, and other sites where people can sell their watches I see that the hard to get pieces are moslty for sale via the US ( search for 5070P, 5... 

Let's all stop pretending. Frequently a regular shop will have financial issues and be overweight on stock that does not move. Then this junk will get pushed to a surplus dealer together with a few high value pieces which will get sold at +30 or +40, and ... 

I would agree with your assessment on USA flippers. Perhaps it's because we are in such dire economic straits! I really think my AD is a solid guy and wouldn't knowingly particiapte in something like this. It would seem to me that at some point an end-buy... 

But we only know where they are being sold - not where they came from. So, it's just an indication that the supply/demand imbalance is greater here. For all we know, these pieces came from Asia - where I've heard Patek is allocating a greater percentage o... 

I heard from the guy I purchased my 5970P from that many of them were coming to the USA via Asia. Is this then a way to maintain a market equilibrium? If Patek doesn't allocate according to market demands, should AD's be able to move watches arounf the wo... 

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One of those 5170s is for sale from the owner of Antiquorum, not exactly a small player and someone who's helped Patek, perhaps unintentionally, by providing a robust market for their vintage pieces. A

PP is in the process of closing AD's (5 in the US this year). Before closing however, they get scrutinized and get less "desirable" merchandise allocated to them. Is this worth it, just to sell a few watches that end up in GD?

do you know this? Thanks Cheers

that may cause the issues everyone is talking about. As an AD, you sign a contract agreeing to a host of things but the two big no-no's are transshipping or selling to an unauthorized dealer. If you don't abide by the contract , Patek can terminate the co... 

Whit- Thank you for your excellent illuminating explanation! If I may inquire further, is there anything in the Authorized Dealer contract that prohibits discounting/inflating the price? In all honesty, what is an AD supposed to do after a watch is sold t... 

....in Newcastle last Thursday and the watch is amazing in the flesh.

although there was encouragement for everyone to "look at your margins". I sold pieces at list, not below and certainly not above. I felt the prices were fair (the April '08 increase was a bit strong but given the frenzy, the thought was probably that fol... 

most of what I know came from speaking with AD's and personnel within PP whenever the chance arise. Can you confirm about the existence of the "black list" for customers who were caught flipping? It's a story heard and read, but actually enforced... not s... 

purchased a 10 day tourbillon which was put up at auction very shortly afterwards. I was told that this person would never, ever get another special piece. And I had no reason to doubt that it happened being that this occurred 3-4 years ago when things we... 

Once again, thank you for pulling back the curtain on the AD mystery machine. I honestly never realized that an AD was under so much pressure from Patek. I thought ADs had more control over what they wanted and when they wanted it. The AD must literally h... 

it's a combination of the AD (ie.. watches sold, rules followed, relationship, account viability) and the individual customer's record as known by PP. Without one, the other won't work.

I would suspect the question may refer to pieces like the 5131, 5170, 5711, 5712, etc. instead simple pieces or annual calendars. It used to be very accommodating until five or six years ago, then things seemed to change and pieces which used to be readil... 

If you happen to be approved, a 50% deposit of the current price is required and the balance upon delivery. If the exchange rate changes then that would be taken into account. It was explained to me like this. Assume the piece is $400,000 today, a $200,00... 

with such insight into the AD experience. I will add from the collector perspective that all the BS when trying to put up hard earned money to buy a desirable Patek is a net negative. And I have long been struck by some of the contradictory or even hypocr... 

Thank you for sharing your experiences and information! To some extent, i wonder if Patek has loosened up their strict rules and policies with the current financial situation. Then again you stated that your experiences were through 2009 so nothing may ha... 

Thanks to whit for the very insightful comments on the AD's point of view. I strongly suspect that Patek has extensive and specific information about the grey market. In the past, I worked at a major manufacturing company and our products had an active gr... 

For a fascinating insight to the world of the AD and some pf your experiences that you have encountered along the way. By the way did your customer ever acquire their MR?